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Phillies get Millwood from Atlanta

Old 12-20-02, 01:06 PM
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Phillies get Millwood from Atlanta

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1220/1480130.html

From the article:

PHILADELPHIA -- The Philadelphia Phillies acquired right-hander Kevin Millwood from the Atlanta Braves for catcher Johnny Estrada on Friday.


The Braves, who already lost two-time NL Cy Young award winner Tom Glavine to the New York Mets, had an excess of starting pitching after retaining Greg Maddux, and acquiring Russ Ortiz and Paul Byrd earlier this week. Atlanta also traded for left-hander Mike Hampton last month.


The Phillies had missed out on their top two pitching choices this offseason. Glavine decided to sign with the New York Mets and Jamie Moyer chose to stay in Seattle.


Philadelphia has already upgraded its offense by signing free agent first baseman Jim Thome and third baseman David Bell.


**********************************************

I like it. Lieberthal seems to be totally over his injury, so Estrada wasn't going to be starting anytime soon. Millwood becomes the number 1 starter, moving Wolf back to number 2. It also makes Millwood, at age 27, the oldest starter in Philly (assuming the go with Millwood, Wolf, Padilla, Myers & Duckworth).
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Old 12-20-02, 01:10 PM
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They only got a backup catcher?!? And they traded a pitcher to their main division rival? What am I missing?
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Old 12-20-02, 01:19 PM
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what he said ^^^^^

I CANNOT believe that they traded their most consistent pitcher from last year to a division rival for a backup catcher!
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Old 12-20-02, 01:45 PM
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What a weird trade for the Braves. If salary concerns were a big issue, then they shouldn't have signed Byrd.
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Old 12-20-02, 01:47 PM
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Whew. This should put the Vina for Ortiz or Millwood rumors to rest.
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Old 12-20-02, 01:49 PM
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I don't get it. If you HAD to get rid of a pitcher, why not keep Millwood for a few more years at a lower salary than Maddux and send Maddux packing? It's not like he's going to be a Brave much longer (maybe only one more year).

Weird.
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Old 12-20-02, 02:00 PM
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I'm ready to club someone. I can't believe they did this. I'm really questioning my status as a Braves fan.

Estrada?

What are they gonna use the rest of the money to do? Sign Fred McGriff?

UGH.
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Old 12-20-02, 02:03 PM
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What the hell? Millwood is worth so much more than a backup catcher. This doesn't many any sense at all.

ARGH!
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Old 12-20-02, 02:16 PM
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It's like the Phillies called up Scheurholtz:

Phillies: Uhhh.... Jim Thome just took a poop.

Braves: That's cool. Can we have some?

Phillies: No... but we've got a Johnny Estrada. It's the next best thing.

Braves: Whaddya want for it?

Phillies: Kevin Millwood

Braves: Our future staff ace for the next best thing to Jim Thome's poop?

Phillies: Yep, that's the deal.

Braves: Sold!!
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Old 12-20-02, 02:35 PM
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this was not a millwood for estrada trade..
this was a.. "well, we are rebuilding our pitching staff and going in a different direction.. and this rebuild does not include millwood's salary.. so here, you take him.. and i guess toss us a backup catcher, since we are pretty short there.." type of deal
millwood is a hot and cold type of pitcher.. he can get hot and be as good as anyone else on the staff.. or he can be cold and suck up the joint.. obviously he was not in their future plans..
as far as why keep maddux instead of millwood.. 2 things.. 1. go back to millwood being hot/cold, while maddux is always consistent.. 2. and probably the biggest thing is the presense maddux brings to the clubhouse in helping develop the young pitchers and rejuvenate the veterans.. one of these days maddux is going to retire and possibly turn out to be the best pitching coach of all time.
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Old 12-20-02, 02:37 PM
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Here's what does not make sense though: They could have easily gotten a solid-to-all-star caliber position player for Millwood. Instead, the Braves deal him for a reserve catcher in their own division? It boggles the mind.
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Old 12-20-02, 02:43 PM
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Baseball Prospectus:

This is probably in my top 5 all-time for worst trade I've ever seen, all things considered. Unless the payroll cleared enables the Braves to trade Castilla for ARod.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ne...undtable.shtml
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Old 12-20-02, 02:46 PM
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Braves general manager John Schuerholz explained the move, telling ESPN's Karl Ravech that this wasn't a baseball trade, but rather a trade fostered by the economics of baseball.

"With Kevin's arbitration number projected to be $10 million this season and with Greg Maddux accepting arbitration we were $15 million over budget," Schuerholz told ESPN. "The economics in baseball stink. The economics stink, and if this isn't a clear enough signal to the doubters and naysayers, to be forced to trade an 18-game winner to your arch enemy ... The economics stink."
what do you think his opinion of baseball economics are?
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Old 12-20-02, 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Yancey
Here's what does not make sense though: They could have easily gotten a solid-to-all-star caliber position player for Millwood. Instead, the Braves deal him for a reserve catcher in their own division? It boggles the mind.
this trade was 100% about money
they couldnt trade for a quality player, because they couldnt afford to pay one
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Old 12-20-02, 02:49 PM
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Man, this almost makes me wish I was a Phillies fan. Talk about Christmas!
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Old 12-20-02, 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Yancey
Man, this almost makes me wish I was a Phillies fan. Talk about Christmas!
but the problem is.. it always sucks to be a phillies fan in september and october

keep in mind.. the mets went out and spent the money last year.. and they were suppose to walk away with everything.. and what happened? the exact same thing that has been happening for over a decade now
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Old 12-20-02, 03:00 PM
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I can see trading the guy to clear salary. However, what I don't understand is trading him to a division rival.
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Old 12-20-02, 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by twikoff
this trade was 100% about money
they couldnt trade for a quality player, because they couldnt afford to pay one
Whatever... the bottom line here is that:

A) They traded him to a division rival who now has a better team.

B) Estrada's a worthless addition.

C) Dumping Maddux's $17 million, signing Millwood for $10 and finding a first baseman with the rest was the better option.
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Old 12-20-02, 03:04 PM
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"With Kevin's arbitration number projected to be $10 million this season and with Greg Maddux accepting arbitration we were $15 million over budget," Schuerholz told ESPN. "The economics in baseball stink. The economics stink, and if this isn't a clear enough signal to the doubters and naysayers, to be forced to trade an 18-game winner to your arch enemy ... The economics stink."
I find it hard to believe NO ONE but the Phils would've taken on Millwood's salary. The Yankees? Boston? Someone would've been willing to take on that salary, even for one season.

Aren't the Braves' most pressing needs 1B and 3B? Why a catcher?
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Old 12-20-02, 03:06 PM
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trading to a division rival sucked.. no arguement there
estrada was cheap, and will be there to backup lopez/perez

losing glavine really sucked.. losing millwood kindof sucks.. losing both glavine and maddux would have been disaster.. maddux is a huge part of the braves pitching success across the board over the past years

has the braves pitching staff let you down once in the past 12 years?
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Old 12-20-02, 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by Meatpants
I find it hard to believe NO ONE but the Phils would've taken on Millwood's salary. The Yankees? Boston? Someone would've been willing to take on that salary, even for one season.

Aren't the Braves' most pressing needs 1B and 3B? Why a catcher?
well.. when glavine was looking for a team.. the phills and mets were the two teams that were willing to spend the big money to get him.. so it was kindof expected that the phills would go after another big money pitcher, if they didnt get glavine..

yep.. they do need to do something with the infield.. Im kindof curious how they are planning to work this.. because they have said so far, all their know about the infield is that furcal will be playing short.. so you can expect the rest to be shaken up.. of course lopez will be catching.. but there are big question marks for who they will plug into the 1b, 2b, and 3b positions.. Not that they dont have the players to do it, as well as a deep farm system.. and I would be surprised if there isnt some more small moves still coming in the near future
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Old 12-20-02, 03:12 PM
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Well, clearly Hampton is a huge gamble. Other than Maddux, there are no guarantees on that staff as of now. Question marks abound. What I'm wondering is: Why did the Braves have to make this move now?
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Old 12-20-02, 03:14 PM
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That one guy from Baseball Prospectus is right. This deal is totally inexplicable unless the Braves know that Millwood has very serious arm or shoulder problems. Then you could be forced into giving him away to dump salary.

But otherwise they should have at least received some promising minor league prospects for him if they needed to dump salary that badly. Plus they should have sent him out of the division, for god's sake. Guess the Braves just aren't used to making moves like a small or mid-market organization.

Last edited by AJP; 12-20-02 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 12-20-02, 03:14 PM
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griffey may be available in the 5-6 million dollar range.. how about putting him in left and moving chipper back ot 3rd
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Old 12-20-02, 03:18 PM
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has the braves pitching staff let you down once in the past 12 years?
no, it hasn't. but it also hasn't lost it's number 2 and 3 pitchers in the same season before.

no one knows how well Hampton is going to pitch. Will he return to his pre-Rockies self, or will he flop? Remember, his road ERA last year was actually worse than that at Coors Field.

Byrd, Ortiz, and Marquis will certainly have to pick up the slack, and more is going to be required of the 3rd, 4th, and 5th starters than in years past.

The pitching staff is radically different this year. Many more changes than ever before. Hopefully they'll find some gems for the bullpen like this past season, but that's certainly not a guarantee.

The problem I have with all this is they're retooling the pitching staff (some things are out of their control, I understand), but that's the one thing that has been consistent during their current run. It's the hitting that has always suffered and the Braves haven't done anything to rectify that.
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