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P. Byrd and R. Ortiz to Braves

Old 12-17-02, 11:40 AM
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R. Ortiz to Braves

Russ Ortiz sent to the Braves for Damian Moss and a minor leaguer.

I don't know what I think about this deal.... but I liked Moss. I don't see what the Braves get out of taking on Ortiz's salary.

Moss was very good.... and cheap.

Sign Maddux, forget about the freaking pitching and sign a first baseman for godsakes.
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Old 12-17-02, 12:14 PM
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good trade for the Giants
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Old 12-17-02, 12:20 PM
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...maybe the Braves aren't planning on signing Maddux after next year...? The Giants might also be picking up portion of Russ' salary next year. Who knows... on the surface this trade would seem to benefit the Giants.

Right now Atlanta's rotation - even without Glavine - is pretty formidable...

Maddux (assuming he accepts arbitration)
Hampton
Millwood
Ortiz
Marquis
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Old 12-17-02, 12:38 PM
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I don't think the Giants are done yet, Ainsworth should either be in the rotation or be traded. The Giants really needed another bat around barry.
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Old 12-17-02, 12:44 PM
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So it's basically Barry Bonds and a whole new supporting cast this year.
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Old 12-17-02, 03:10 PM
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I don't really like the Ortiz for Moss trade. I think Moss has a really good future. Ahh well.

I do like the Paul Byrd signing though.
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Old 12-17-02, 03:21 PM
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Re: R. Ortiz to Braves

Originally posted by jdpatri
Sign Maddux, forget about the freaking pitching and sign a first baseman for godsakes.
Rumor has it that Dmitri Young is available. Ever since Tigers traded Weaver for Pena, Bonderman, and German... Pena became the 1B of the future in Detroit.

Young will probably play DH, if not traded, but there is also a rumor flying around that he lost 20 lbs and still working on losing weight so that he possibility can be fit enough to play the OF, but that may be just a rumor.

Atlanta will just have to take on Young's salary and give two nice prospects in return (Marcus Giles would be a nice acquistion for the Tigers, I would think).
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Old 12-17-02, 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by shizawn
I don't really like the Ortiz for Moss trade. I think Moss has a really good future. Ahh well.
That's what I don't understand... Damian was a great pitcher and had been a well guarded prospect within the organization for the last few years...

...so we go and offer him to the Giants for an older, more expensive player who'll probably produce the same numbers? Say what?

I don't want Dmitri Young from the Tigers. I want Robert Fick. Now that'd be a nice deal.
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Old 12-17-02, 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by shizawn

I do like the Paul Byrd signing though.
Paul Byrd just went from being a team's #1 to the Braves #5.

Maddux
Millwood
Hampton
Ortiz
Byrd

Overkill?? Either someone's getting traded or we have no intention of signing Maddux after next season.

Say it with me now... First Baseman. First Baseman.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:08 PM
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Wow, if the Braves get Maddux back for next year, then the Braves can trade Millwood or Marquis for a BIG bat and still have a great rotation.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:14 PM
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I think it's the latter. IIRC, Millwood is a free agent after next season. I think like this year, the Braves are going to have 2 big free agent pitchers (Millwood and Maddux) next year and they're only going to be able to sign one.

This is assuming Maddux is with the team this year.

I do agree with the pressing need for a 1st baseman.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:14 PM
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I don't like the Ortiz for Moss deal at all.

Moss was younger, cheaper, and better IMO.

I do like the signing of Byrd.

The rotation does look pretty formidable.

Signing a good hitting first baseman would be a plus, but not a necessity. The Franco's are adequate, the braves just need better power numbers for Chipper and Sheffield next year and they'll be fine.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:22 PM
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I don't like the idea of trading Millwood or Marquis... but I'd be willing to trade Marquis and Giles for a bat.... that should fetch something nice to hit behind Chipper or Andruw....

I'd like Andruw and his on-again-off again hitting preferences to bat sixth if they could sign a more consistent hitter to bat fifth.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:25 PM
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For everyone saying Ortiz is older, he's a year older. A 27yo pitcher with 4.5 years of MLB experience vs a 26yo pitcher with 1 year of MLB experience? A front of the rotation guy (for the Giants staff, at least ) for a 5th guy who has had one good year? yes, Ortiz does make a lot more $, and Moss could be a great pitcher, but Ortiz has averaged 16 wins/yr over the past 4 years and had a sub 4.00 ERA in 3 of those years. C'mon Braves fans, you got a good deal here.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle

Signing a good hitting first baseman would be a plus, but not a necessity. The Franco's are adequate, the braves just need better power numbers for Chipper and Sheffield next year and they'll be fine.
I can't handle any more of Julio Franco. Bobby likes him batting second because he puts the ball in the hole between first and second base... but he's got such a low OBP, any advantages you gain with his opposite-field swing are lost.

I also don't see Matt Franco experiencing anything equal to last year's totals but I like him... and if we don't pickup a first baseman, I'd rather have him as the everyday first baseman.... and anyone that frequents Braves' games knows that Julio plays some god-awful Christian rock when he goes up to bat....
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Old 12-17-02, 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
For everyone saying Ortiz is older, he's a year older. A 27yo pitcher with 4.5 years of MLB experience vs a 26yo pitcher with 1 year of MLB experience? A front of the rotation guy (for the Giants staff, at least ) for a 5th guy who has had one good year? yes, Ortiz does make a lot more $, and Moss could be a great pitcher, but Ortiz has averaged 16 wins/yr over the past 4 years and had a sub 4.00 ERA in 3 of those years. C'mon Braves fans, you got a good deal here.
I said he was older earlier without looking at Moss' age. I thought he was only 24 but he was 26. Ortiz has just been pitching in the majors for so much longer.

I like Ortiz, but like I said, Moss was cheaper... and I think they'll have similar numbers.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:35 PM
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The NL East will be interesting to watch next season... I'm predicting a dog fight till the very end.

In the blue corner you have the Braves...
With newly acquired Russ Ortiz, Mike Hampton and Paul Byrd

In the red corner you have the Phillies...
newly acquired Jim Thome, and David Bell

In the black corner you have the Mets...
with newly acquired Tom Glavine and Mike Stanton

"Paul Byrd just went from being a team's #1 to the Braves #5. "
I'd put Byrd at #2. IMO, he's better than Hampton, Oritz, and Millwood. (at least last season)

"I don't want Dmitri Young from the Tigers. I want Robert Fick. Now that'd be a nice deal."
He's just as available. I won't be shocked/suprized at all to see him traded since he's up for abritration and will probably make alot more than he's worth. He'll still cost Atlanta the same prospects, I would think/hope.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:38 PM
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I was thinking Moss was younger than 26 too.

I still think it's a bad move do to salary that could be better spent on another bat.

The brave's have had great pitching for over a decade and only one title to show for it.

Time to change philosophy a little I'd say. Pitching doesn't win championships anymore. Of course you have to have a good staff to win, but you're odds are better with a good pitching staff and a great batting lineup, as opposed to a great pitching staff and a good batting lineup IMO.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle

Time to change philosophy a little I'd say. Pitching doesn't win championships anymore. Of course you have to have a good staff to win, but you're odds are better with a good pitching staff and a great batting lineup, as opposed to a great pitching staff and a good batting lineup IMO.
Agreed. When crunch time rolls around, the Braves always pitch well (except Glavine in last year's DS), they just don't score enough runs.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:50 PM
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The reason I don't like the Ortiz-Moss trade is I like to see the pitchers that come up through the organization stay with the team. I don't like when they trade them away. The Giants also got a 20 year old pitcher named Manuel Mateo, who pitched really well in A ball. Who knows how he'll turn out in a couple years. I just don't like to see them give up prospects. I also don't like that they gave up a lefty and got a righty. Good left handed pitchers are hard to come by.

Having said that, I think Ortiz will work out well, and most likely will pitch better than he did with the Giants. Still, I prefer Moss.
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Old 12-17-02, 04:57 PM
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For everyone saying Ortiz is older, he's a year older. A 27yo pitcher with 4.5 years of MLB experience vs a 26yo pitcher with 1 year of MLB experience? A front of the rotation guy (for the Giants staff, at least ) for a 5th guy who has had one good year? yes, Ortiz does make a lot more $, and Moss could be a great pitcher, but Ortiz has averaged 16 wins/yr over the past 4 years and had a sub 4.00 ERA in 3 of those years. C'mon Braves fans, you got a good deal here.
Exactly what I was just about to say. I'd say the Braves got the better end of the deal by a very slight margin. It's almost a wash. But I think Ortiz is a little bit better. But I did like Moss and think he will be good.

I'd put Byrd at #2. IMO, he's better than Hampton, Oritz, and Millwood.
No, Byrd is very good, but he isn't better than Millwood. Millwood has a very good year last year and was dominating over the last half of the season. .
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Old 12-17-02, 08:08 PM
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I'd put Millwood at #1 if he pitches like he did in the second half last year. He was clearly the best Brave's pitcher after the all star break.
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Old 12-17-02, 08:44 PM
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Not a Braves fan, but I really don't like the Paul Byrd signing for them.

He is way up and down. I don't like the inconsistency.

I think he may just be a nice pitcher on a small market bad team, but I guess we'll see. Usually the Braves are pretty good on pitching scouting.
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Old 12-17-02, 09:22 PM
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Being on a "small market bad team" makes his stats even more impressive.
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Old 12-17-02, 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by Applejack
Not a Braves fan, but I really don't like the Paul Byrd signing for them.

He is way up and down. I don't like the inconsistency.

I think he may just be a nice pitcher on a small market bad team, but I guess we'll see. Usually the Braves are pretty good on pitching scouting.
When your team can't even score 2 runs per game, no pitcher would have impressive stats. Paul Byrd is a good pitcher and should do well on a winning team.
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