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View Poll Results: Who will win the Heisman
Brad Banks-Senior-University of Iowa
2
4.55%
Ken Dorsey-Senior-University of Miami, Fla.
8
18.18%
Larry Johnson-Senior-Penn State University
13
29.55%
Willis McGahee-Sophomore-University of Miami, Fla.
12
27.27%
Carson Palmer-Senior-Univeristy of Southern California
8
18.18%
Other (please list)
1
2.27%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

Who will win the Heisman Trophy?

Old 12-10-02, 01:48 AM
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Who will win the Heisman Trophy?

Please pick and try to state your case for your selection.
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Old 12-10-02, 02:42 AM
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Willis McGahee. Best player on best team. Carson Palmer was my pick after the Notre Dame game but McGahee's 6 tds against VT made me change my pick. McGahee has played great all year and came up with the big play every time Miami needed one.
My top 3:
1. McGahee
2. Palmer
3. Banks
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Old 12-10-02, 02:44 AM
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I've probably had four or five for the season, but for the moment it stands as:

1.McGahee
2.Dorsey
3.Palmer
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Old 12-10-02, 02:54 AM
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Carson Palmer. Sure I'm biased because I watched most of his games and hardly any from the others. He's had a great season save for one game.

It'll probably go to McGahee though. Those 6 TDs last week were huge (albeit against a weak team). Palmer's win over ND was just amazing.

Interesting how (at the current time) each person has one vote. Pretty tight race.
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Old 12-10-02, 03:09 AM
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McGahee will win it after last weekend, though Palmer could get it if McGahee and Dorsry divide the vote on the east coast. Banks and Johnson haven't played in about 3 weeks so they won't win since no one will remember them as well as the other 3.
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Old 12-10-02, 04:11 AM
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I still maintain that Dorsey will win it, even if he doesn't deserve it. Senior leader on a team that has won over 30 in a row. Of course he wouldn't even be top five if his team wasn't undefeated, but the award is mostly a career award nowadays, not a single-season award.

I'd vote for Palmer, but the question was who we think will win, not who we think should win.
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Old 12-10-02, 04:29 AM
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Is this a good year for graduating college talent? (sorry to hijack just curious)
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Old 12-10-02, 04:53 AM
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Sorry, I'd vote for Dorsey. In the end, the only stat that matters is Wins, and the guy has played at his absolute best when they needed it most. Palmer fell apart against K. State throwing 18 for 47. Banks fumbled away the Iowa State game. And Johnson has been absent when his team needed him most.

McGahee had a kickass season to be sure, but I give the edge to Dorsey who led his team back against F$U after countless dropped passes that put his team behind. How do you choose between the two? I dunno. Miami's offense has been the same all year long. Dorsey throws a 60 yard pass, and McGahee sticks it in the endzone. Who should get credit for that? Both of them? The O-Line? I just have to give the edge to Dorsey. He's clearly the leader of the team. And while those 6 TDs for McGahee were impressive, many trailed 60 yard passes from Dorsey that put the team inside the 10.

People also confuse the season award/career award thing. Dorsey's success in previous seasons statistically shouldn't enter into this year's Heisman race; however, the win streak is relevant to show that it's not a fluke. When a team wins that many games against enough good teams, you have to give credit to the constants: coaching and the QB who's been there the whole time.

Banks, Palmer, Johnson ... each was on a team good enough to be sitting in the national championship game. But each of them stumbled just enough to lose their shot. When Dorsey stumbled, he always put it together in the 4th quarter. He made the big drives at the right time, showed incredible poise under the pressure of winning a second national championship with less overall talent, and keeps winning football games.

Who cares how many yards you throw on the weak-ass PAC-10 defenses. What's it matter if you run for 300 yards on Michigan State and Northwestern. This is NCAA football, and the whole season matters, and Dorsey's gotten it done every week, not just most weeks.

You don't have to be on an undefeated team to win the Heisman, but when there's another player out there who has lead his team as consistently as Dorsey has, you'll be overshadowed. Running up the score and padding your stats against creampuffs ... that's all well and good. Making the big play when the game is on the line ... that's what makes champions. And that can't be ignored just because so many people want to find a reason to not give Dorsey credit for what he's accomplished. As sickening as it is to see yet another Miami QB win the Heisman, he's earned it.

I certainly have nothing against Banks, Palmer, Johnson, and McGahee ... those guys have had freakin' incredible seasons. But you have to pick someone, and I'm taking Dorsey. Senior leadership is often overshadowed by stats ... but stats don't always win football games.

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Last edited by das Monkey; 12-10-02 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 12-10-02, 05:19 AM
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Sadly, I think that Dorsey will win it, but I think Palmer should. He has the best stats. That's all there is to it.
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Old 12-10-02, 09:13 AM
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I would vote for McGahee. However, I think Larry Johnson will win although the 2 weeks of inaction hurts his chances. I think the 3 weeks of inaction totally killed Brad Banks chances.

I think McGahee and Dorsey will split a lot of votes and finish 3rd and 4th. Palmer finishes 2nd - his K-State performance will ulitimately hurt his vote tally. Larry Johnson will sweep the NE and Midwest votes (since Banks' performance vs ISU will ultimately do him in among Big-10 and Big-12 voters). Cries of East Coast Bias will follow.
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Old 12-10-02, 09:20 AM
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I wonder if East Coast bias made Palmer play poorly against K. State.

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Old 12-10-02, 10:35 AM
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i saw palmer when he played auburn
and i would vote for banks

palmer didnt impress me.. because both teams played terrible, both teams turned the ball over a million times.. and usc just managed to sneak out with a 7 point win in a game that easily could have gone either way..

banks has been outstanding..
mcgahee has been amazing, but i think he gets screwed because he is a sophomore and dorsey takes some of his votes.

dorsey will probably win.. based on his performance this season, as well as in his career.. 1 loss in 3+ years? win you get down to it, all that matters is the W.. and you cant convince me that you can just stick any qb into that team and win.. dorsey has stepped up and played well in clutch situations repeatedly
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Old 12-10-02, 10:48 AM
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The website is still up:
http://www.kliffkingsbury.com/
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Old 12-10-02, 11:47 AM
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Y2K beat me to it.

I'm not sure who will win it though. McGahee sure made a good push for some votes during the V-Tech game. I'm guessing it'll be him or Dorsey.
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Old 12-10-02, 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
I think Larry Johnson will win.
I think the fact that he only avg 79 yards a game against Michigan and tOSU kill his chances. Running for 300 yds on horrible Mich. St and Illini defenses aren't going to cut it.
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Old 12-10-02, 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
You don't have to be on an undefeated team to win the Heisman, but when there's another player out there who has lead his team as consistently as Dorsey has, you'll be overshadowed. Running up the score and padding your stats against creampuffs ... that's all well and good. Making the big play when the game is on the line ... that's what makes champions. And that can't be ignored just because so many people want to find a reason to not give Dorsey credit for what he's accomplished. As sickening as it is to see yet another Miami QB win the Heisman, he's earned it.
It sounds like you've been watching most of Miami's games, and therefore fall into that same crowd that thinks the overexposed Dorsey is the only player that has leadership skills and has "Heisman moments".

My vote is for Banks.

If you can get a copy of a tape of the Iowa/Purdue game, you'll see that he's not only a "stats performer", but probably the only QB in America that could have lead that team down the field to score the winning touchdown. He starts off with a 44 QB yard run to get them into Purdue territory, then connects on passes to get them down inside the 10. Then on 4th down with time running out there's an unbelievable play call and execution where Purdue's entire pass coverage is faked to the left side of the field and Banks holds off to the last second, turns to his right launches a perfect pass to (probably consensus) All American tight end Dallas Clark for he go ahead TD. That's skills, leadership, grits, and intelligence all in one drive that made the difference for Iowa being where they are today. That's what the Heisman is all about, and Banks has had similar critical performances in other games of the year too.

Even in the one loss to Iowa State (probably his first start against a decent team in his career), he had one bad quarter that allowed Iowa State to come back after a great first half, but still had the leadership to lead Iowa to a touchdown near the end and might have lead them back in that game as well, had they got the on-sides kick.

He may not have the gaudy stats in terms of raw numbers that other QBS have had this year, but if that's all that counted then Kliff Kingsbury or Bryan Leftwich should win, not Palmer or Dorsey. Banks was incredibly efficient passing, getting close to the same numbers of touchdowns these other QBs had with far fewer passes and far fewer interceptions. By having running ability far better than any of the other QB's in the running here, he also presented another dimension to Iowa's potent offense that made their whole offense that much more potent with an added weapon that defenses had a hard time defending against.

Banks doesn't have the career does that Dorsey does, but he's had the leadership and stats that in my mind are superior to Dorsey's *this year* which is what the Heisman is all about.
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Old 12-10-02, 01:34 PM
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Quoth DVDealer
It sounds like you've been watching most of Miami's games, and therefore fall into that same crowd that thinks the overexposed Dorsey is the only player that has leadership skills and has "Heisman moments".



Just because we're in disagreement doesn't give you reason to imply I'm ignorant of the candidates.

I already said why I think he deserves it over Banks. Make all the excuses you want for why it happened (although, "might have lead them back had they got the on-sides kick" is weak and applies to just about anyone who ever loses a close game), but I'm holding him accountable for two costly second half fumbles, both leading to touchdowns, losing a 24-7 halftime lead and possible shot at the national championship.

Your criteria for Heisman may be different from mine, and if I were to judge you as you've done with me, I could claim you're clearly biased by being a huge Iowa fan. But I won't, because Banks is a great player and a perfectly fine pick, and you're entitled to your opinion. I'd appreciate the same.

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Old 12-10-02, 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by MrX
I think the fact that he only avg 79 yards a game against Michigan and tOSU kill his chances. Running for 300 yds on horrible Mich. St and Illini defenses aren't going to cut it.

Note that I said I would not vote for Johnson. I think I know what turns Heisman voters on though. A 2,000 yd RB from a name school like PSU makes Heisman voters drool. Also, keep in mind that he did not stink up the joint vs OSU and Mich - he had TDs in both games and averaged 111 combined yds in those games. In the Iowa game, he scored twice and had 165 combined yards. I don't think he 'sucked' enough in those 2 games to negate what that 2,000 yds means to many Heisman voters.
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Old 12-10-02, 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
Note that I said I would not vote for Johnson. I think I know what turns Heisman voters on though. A 2,000 yd RB from a name school like PSU makes Heisman voters drool. Also, keep in mind that he did not stink up the joint vs OSU and Mich - he had TDs in both games and averaged 111 combined yds in those games. In the Iowa game, he scored twice and had 165 combined yards. I don't think he 'sucked' enough in those 2 games to negate what that 2,000 yds means to many Heisman voters.
Being a PSU fan, I hope you are right. I get pissed when people talk about how he played poorly against Iowa, Mich., and OSU. While he didn't have his best games, he played well by normal human standards. But voters are often swayed by hyperbole like that, so I actually think the notion that he played poorly in those games kill his chances. I think McGahee will win.
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Old 12-10-02, 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
Being a PSU fan, I hope you are right. I get pissed when people talk about how he played poorly against Iowa, Mich., and OSU. While he didn't have his best games, he played well by normal human standards. But voters are often swayed by hyperbole like that, so I actually think the notion that he played poorly in those games kill his chances. I think McGahee will win.
playing well by normal human standards is not what it takes to win the heisman

in the big games, you have to put up big numbers.. his numbers were perfectly acceptable and dont discredit him as a great athlete, but they knock definitly damage any chance he had at the heisman
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Old 12-10-02, 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by Red Dog
Note that I said I would not vote for Johnson. I think I know what turns Heisman voters on though. A 2,000 yd RB from a name school like PSU makes Heisman voters drool. Also, keep in mind that he did not stink up the joint vs OSU and Mich - he had TDs in both games and averaged 111 combined yds in those games. In the Iowa game, he scored twice and had 165 combined yards. I don't think he 'sucked' enough in those 2 games to negate what that 2,000 yds means to many Heisman voters.
I saw you wouldn't vote for him. For a running back though rushing yards stick out more then combined yards. He had 68 yards rushing against Iowa, 78 against Michigan, and 66 against tOSU. Those are numbers people will look at and are not heisman worthy. His big games were against a Mich. St. team that had quit, Indiana, Northwestern, and Illinois. I had watched the Illini all year and 279 yards against that defense is not that great an accomplishment, they gave up 200 yards to a couple of running backs this year.
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Old 12-10-02, 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by twikoff
playing well by normal human standards is not what it takes to win the heisman

in the big games, you have to put up big numbers.. his numbers were perfectly acceptable and dont discredit him as a great athlete, but they knock definitly damage any chance he had at the heisman
Well, everybody in the race has screwed up games. My point is that he scored a TD in every one of those games, and had averaged well over 100 total yards in those 3 games, and scored 4 TDs. But every candidate except for Dorsey or McGahee has been on a losing end at least once, and ALL have had an off day, so I don't see how those games should knock him out. Would he have a better chance if he had his best games against them? Sure (although some might then note the "bad" games he had against mediocre opponents!). But to say he had bad games against them and shouldn't win because of it is a load of BS, IMHO.
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Old 12-10-02, 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by MrX
I saw you wouldn't vote for him. For a running back though rushing yards stick out more then combined yards. He had 68 yards rushing against Iowa, 78 against Michigan, and 66 against tOSU. Those are numbers people will look at and are not heisman worthy. His big games were against a Mich. St. team that had quit, Indiana, Northwestern, and Illinois. I had watched the Illini all year and 279 yards against that defense is not that great an accomplishment, they gave up 200 yards to a couple of running backs this year.

You don't need to sell me. Many voters won't look at this. There have been 8 2,000 yd college rushers. 5 won Heismans - 4 of the 5 played for 'name' programs: USC, Nebraska, Colorado, Texas (except for Barry Sanders - don't really consider Ok St a name program). The other 3 went to TCU, Troy State, and Texas Tech. Penn State is program that mirrors the first 4 programs I mentioned, not the last 3.

Heisman voters will see these things - RB, 2,000 yds rushing, Pennsylvania State University. They won't go deeper behind the 2,000 IMO.
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Old 12-10-02, 05:38 PM
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I think Palmer should win it. He put up unbelievable numbers w/ the toughest (supposedly) schedule in the country. McGahee will be a close second, followed by Dorsey and Banks. McGahee might spoil it for Palmer w/ that huge game against a not-so-good V-Tech defense.
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Old 12-10-02, 06:54 PM
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Im biased because im a Penn State fan so I voted LJ + that sick 8.6 avg. best of all time in college history(whats that about 130 years?),but I wont get mad if he dont win it as long as Dorsey dont get it,I cant wait to see this dude flop in the NFL Leftwich,Palmer,Banks are way better then this chump,Dorsey has sprinters and the best Oline to back him up.
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