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F1 new rules...and the death of the last 'real' race

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F1 new rules...and the death of the last 'real' race

Old 10-28-02, 11:38 AM
  #1  
colossus
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F1 new rules...and the death of the last 'real' race

Losing Spa while they keep garbage like Hungaroring speaks droves about the FIA's grip on reality. The last Real Track is now out of the World Driver's Championship...

Thoughts?

Link

Mosley announced that the way in which competitors will qualify for Grand Prix in 2003 and beyond with each competitor taking to the track alone for a single qualifying lap, a new points system that covers the top eight finishers, team orders will no longer be acceptable if they interfere with the race result, Spa Francorchamps removed from the 2002 Calendar, an option for additional Friday testing if teams agree to less than ten days of in-season testing and that each tyre manufacturer can supply each team with up to two compounds.
 
Old 10-28-02, 12:47 PM
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All this stuff they were spouting off about making changes to insure there is no run away winner apparently didn't stick. The only real change is no team orders. Yeah..Right...I'm sure there won't be anything like that.
Hope next year is better, this year was booooring. As much as people bash the IRL, at least there was actual competition to the very last lap.

Dave
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Old 10-28-02, 04:27 PM
  #3  
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Glad I got to Spa in 2001. I don't mind the new qualifying rules actually, and points for the top 8 is a very good thing.
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Old 10-28-02, 05:40 PM
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F1 is dire trouble. Anyone who doesn't believe that is blind. I consider myself a purist and I know there are many changes needed. Sadly, I don't think this stuff addresses much of anything as far as the problems go.
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Old 10-28-02, 05:46 PM
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What's the big problem bd? How I see it Ferrari's dominance was for sure not good for the sport, although I don't recall too many complaints when prost and senna won 15 of 16 races between them for mclaren in 88 I think it was.

What would you have as solutions? Bring back the turbos? I think i agree with the weight penalties not being brought in.

I think I would like to see a reverse grid but that might make things insane with the minardis at the top, and everyone trying to fake it in practise.

Return to slicks won't do anything as the cars are faster now than they ever were.
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Old 10-28-02, 06:02 PM
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They need to limit cost to something more reasonable than what it is. There is no way minardi could ever be competitive in the current enviroment. I like some of the proposals I've seen. Limit testing to a fixed # of sessions. Limit bodywork changes to 2 (no more spending hours and hours in the wind tunnel for tiny little gains in aerodynamics) packages for the season. I don't know if this one has come up, but different tire compounds for different teams. Forget this. The tire mfg's should bring a couple of compounds to each race (hard,soft,rain etc). Let the teams choose from that list.

Dave
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Old 10-28-02, 06:09 PM
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Let's start with the ridiculous regulations that keep guys like Justin Wilson out of rides. Then the circuits being emasculated, nearly half the teams almost unable to financially compete, and Ferrari and their insane "Anything to please Michael" attitude.

You mention the '88 season. Do you remember that those teammates battled it out every race, never giving an inch? That was great racing. I have no problem with Ferrari's dominance to a certain point. If the other teams with as much money can't field competitive cars then it's not Ferrari's fault. But the team order thing is a joke. Yes, supposedly there are "no more orders" but I'll believe it when I see it.

Did you see any of Barrichello's wins? MS was certainly not pushing it at Italy or Hungary. I doubt Ferrari would ever give Schumacher a top-rate teammate.

Now, about money. The way things are now the teams with the best finishes are awarded the biggest chunk of the TV money. If F1 would split the huge TV money evenly with all the teams it would make for much more competitive racing. But no, Bernie and the FIA are punch-drunk with love for the rich teams.

Another huge problem is aerodynamics. It is ruining the racing. The way the cars are nowadays if a driver gets within a few feet of the car in front, he loses so much downforce that he can hardly drive at top speed, let alone pass. The technology has passed the drivers. It should never be that way. Aero packages should be drastically reduced imo, if you want good racing. And limit the wind tunnel time. Did you know that Ferrari runs their wind tunnel 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Maybe the new testing rule will help this, but I think it's too little too late.

What it all comes down to for me is the quality of the racing. I have watched F1 for nearly 20 years and the racing today is the worst of that time, imo. It's a parade at every circuit. Follow Mike. This is why fans are turning away, switching the channel. If that keeps happening then F1 will kill itself.
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Old 10-28-02, 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by Dave99
The tire mfg's should bring a couple of compounds to each race (hard,soft,rain etc). Let the teams choose from that list.
This is a great idea. NASCAR, which I will say is the WORST governing body in motorsport, at least does a version of this. And it eliminates any and all tire problems.
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Old 10-28-02, 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by BoatDrinks
Badlydrawnboy
Let's start with the ridiculous regulations that keep guys like Justin Wilson out of rides. Then the circuits being emasculated, nearly half the teams almost unable to financially compete, and Ferrari and their insane "Anything to please Michael" attitude.
Lets see, Justin Wilson, I thought he is being kept out essentially because he is too tall, and thus the chassis and safety of the person in the car come into it. I could be wrong.

I agree with the tearing up of the circuits, although places like monza and imola would be back to being the pure power circuits they used to be. That would be nice.

Being a Prost fan I can remember well that ayrton and alain battled to the last for many of there seasons, and I loved it. I think ferrari are a marketing machine thus the pandering to M$ and why not when you are on a winning run breaking records left and right who would not take it.

As for Rubens he is getting a big paycheck and will continue to pocket the cash as I would, being thrown the odd win here and there helps the ego. I don't know who out there would be able to compete with michael. even in the same car, people say Jacques would, but who knows, he is another just taking the paycheck.

I agree with how the money is distributed, otherwise why bother racing, when a minardi comes in 6th or a jordan bags a 3rd place, the extra cash is good for the team, and it should drive them to greater things.



not a lot can be done with the aerodynamics, as basically the wings are all billboards, and without the sponsors putting names on the wings, there would be no F1. So unless they remove the ground effects, or maybe go back to a fully active suspension I don't see much happenign with that.

I think the tires will indeed be a factor this season with the other teams being able to have more options, that ferrari bridgestone linkup was killing the other teams, I was unaware of the wind tunnell runnig all the time, but I am not surprised.

I really do think though that up until this season and last there was excitment, Mika and Michael had some good battles, but in reality what has done it for ferrari this year has been the insane reliablity record. other teams had guys dropping like flies esp McLaren and ferrari were just runnign around with hardly a hiccup.


I long for the days of Prost Senna, and even though I dislike him Mansell, the hard chargers. Schumacher needs to retire nwo and take over Sauber
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Old 10-28-02, 07:16 PM
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I'm pretty sure cart and IRL do this as well. The fact that ferrari works so close with bridgestone, to some degree makes that tire mfg a competitor to the other teams. That has got to go.

Dave
Originally posted by BoatDrinks
This is a great idea. NASCAR, which I will say is the WORST governing body in motorsport, at least does a version of this. And it eliminates any and all tire problems.
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Old 10-29-02, 12:31 AM
  #11  
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Originally posted by BoatDrinks
Badlydrawnboy
Let's start with the ridiculous regulations that keep guys like Justin Wilson out of rides. Then the circuits being emasculated, nearly half the teams almost unable to financially compete, and Ferrari and their insane "Anything to please Michael" attitude.

You mention the '88 season. Do you remember that those teammates battled it out every race, never giving an inch? That was great racing. I have no problem with Ferrari's dominance to a certain point. If the other teams with as much money can't field competitive cars then it's not Ferrari's fault. But the team order thing is a joke. Yes, supposedly there are "no more orders" but I'll believe it when I see it.

Did you see any of Barrichello's wins? MS was certainly not pushing it at Italy or Hungary. I doubt Ferrari would ever give Schumacher a top-rate teammate.

Now, about money. The way things are now the teams with the best finishes are awarded the biggest chunk of the TV money. If F1 would split the huge TV money evenly with all the teams it would make for much more competitive racing. But no, Bernie and the FIA are punch-drunk with love for the rich teams.

Another huge problem is aerodynamics. It is ruining the racing. The way the cars are nowadays if a driver gets within a few feet of the car in front, he loses so much downforce that he can hardly drive at top speed, let alone pass. The technology has passed the drivers. It should never be that way. Aero packages should be drastically reduced imo, if you want good racing. And limit the wind tunnel time. Did you know that Ferrari runs their wind tunnel 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Maybe the new testing rule will help this, but I think it's too little too late.

What it all comes down to for me is the quality of the racing. I have watched F1 for nearly 20 years and the racing today is the worst of that time, imo. It's a parade at every circuit. Follow Mike. This is why fans are turning away, switching the channel. If that keeps happening then F1 will kill itself.


agree with every single damm_point here. except it's been more like 10-15 yrs of watching vs. 20 yrs.

there was a pretty good article about the state of f1 racing on espn. bd touched on all the right points - there is too much wrong with f1 the way things are now. this year's action was the worst i've seen in recent years. i'm glad to see ferrari win, but to reiterate prost and ayrton pushed it out every race. neither would give an inch like today.
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Old 11-02-02, 08:12 AM
  #12  
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Having a couple days to mull this stuff over...

1) The 'one at a time' approach to qualifying will take what little excitement that exists in F1- that is, the last 10 minutes in qualifying- and completely remove it. Qualifying, especially on the many dull, boring circuits (Hungary comes to mind) is more interesting than the race.

2) This business with qualifying 'order' on Saturday- shouldn't the fastest driver get to pick WHEN they go out? What if it might rain halfway through the session? They should take some direction from WRC (Rally Australia?) on this one, let the drivers pick their slots based on their Friday qualifying time.

3) GET RID OF THE TIRE-WAR OUTRIGHT. Martin Brundle or Peter Windsor summed it up best- one tire manufacturer bids to provide the rubber for each team, all season. No Ferrari/McLaren favoritism, no winning races based on tires. This is achingly obvious...

4) Eliminate the dependency on aerodynamics. Just once I'd like to see a pass THROUGH a corner instead of before it. The cars make too big a hole in the air for this to happen.

5) At the very least, let's see some real in-car footage for a change. The concept of F1 is very very interesting- if the race gets boring, switch to a nose-cam on Kimi or something. At least that's more interesting to watch than Jenson Button trying for 12 laps to pass a Jag...
 

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