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Art Howe to be next Mets manager...

Old 10-24-02, 11:26 AM
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Art Howe to be next Mets manager...

http://msn.espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1023/1450221.html

Sweet Lou goes to the D-Rays. Howe sure gets the better team to work with!

What I don't understand is how the news media in NY can be so critical of the Mets here. Howe is a great skipper. I know Lou is a NY favorite, but I am definitely in favor of no compensation and Howe versus big compensation (supposedly the M's wanted a lot to let Lou go to NYC) and Lou...

Let's go Mets!
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Old 10-24-02, 11:32 AM
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This may be a good move for the A's as well as Macha will be promoted from bench coach to manager. Word around here is that Beane has wanted to promote Macha and has been waiting for this move to happen by Howe so Macha wouls take this job and not one of the other ones that he was given permission to interview for.
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Old 10-24-02, 11:43 AM
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Howe is not a great manager. I consider Beane more responsible for the A's success than Howe. Howe has made some very strange managerial decisions (not getting Zito two starts in the Twins series, to cite a recent example).
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Old 10-24-02, 11:48 AM
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Bobby V. never does moves that go against baseball wisdom.
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Old 10-24-02, 11:55 AM
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It's been long-rumored that Ken Macha was Beane's choice to be manager, so it's not surprising to see Art Howe go and have Macha replace him. Especially with Macha fielding offers from other teams. It's a tough act to follow for Macha though as the team can't really get any better than they've been. even if they slip just a little, Macha will get scrutinized.

As for Howe, going to New York is pretty nice. YEah, the Mets do stink, but they have the potential (read: money) to be competitive. And at least there is a base of talent. Unfortunately he will likely have to deal with unrealistic expectations. But it could be worse...

Which brings me to Tampa Bay. I really don't know why Lou Pinella would do this. I suppose it is a job, and the weather is nice, but Tampa? The team stinks. They won't be good anytime soon, so it will be some long seasons for Old Lou. On the other hand, Tampa can't get any worse, so there's nowhere to go but up. Whatever "improvement" they have will at least make Pinella look good.

All in all though, some intersting things to talk about, but I've never believed managers really change how good a team is so I don't really see any teams improving based off these hires.
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Old 10-24-02, 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Yancey
Howe is not a great manager. I consider Beane more responsible for the A's success than Howe. Howe has made some very strange managerial decisions (not getting Zito two starts in the Twins series, to cite a recent example).
I won't argue with Beane's importance to the A's success. I will point out that managerial skill, to me, involve far more "people work" than it does gamesmanship. The game is so damn mental that I'd rather have the mgr who motivates his players to perform but makes occasionally poor on-field decisions than one who makes all the technically correct moves but can't get his players to play for him...
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Old 10-24-02, 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Jericho
Which brings me to Tampa Bay. I really don't know why Lou Pinella would do this. I suppose it is a job, and the weather is nice, but Tampa? The team stinks. They won't be good anytime soon, so it will be some long seasons for Old Lou. On the other hand, Tampa can't get any worse, so there's nowhere to go but up. Whatever "improvement" they have will at least make Pinella look good.
He and his whole family (from parents to grandchildren) live in Florida. Plus, his parents are supposedly in poor health. That's why he goes to Tampa. But, he will burst a blood vessel freaking out because they suck so bad...
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Old 10-24-02, 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Jericho
Unfortunately he will likely have to deal with unrealistic expectations.
In New York???

I'm a Mets fan and am glad they decided to make a change because they were god awful this year. Is Howe the right manager for us? I don't know but he had better understand exactly how much pressure he will be under. I'm glad the Mets didn't give away the farm for Sweet Lou because IMO I don't think there is that much of a difference between Lou and Howe.
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Old 10-24-02, 12:18 PM
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Well, he did get 100 win seasons back to back for his previous team, what is realistic and what is not?
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Old 10-24-02, 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by Jericho

Which brings me to Tampa Bay. I really don't know why Lou Pinella would do this. I suppose it is a job, and the weather is nice, but Tampa? The team stinks. They won't be good anytime soon, so it will be some long seasons for Old Lou. On the other hand, Tampa can't get any worse, so there's nowhere to go but up. Whatever "improvement" they have will at least make Pinella look good.

All in all though, some intersting things to talk about, but I've never believed managers really change how good a team is so I don't really see any teams improving based off these hires.

The worst thing for Lou and the D-rays is that they had to trade their best player Randy Winn for him... not to mention that they used money that could have been used to lure FA's on a manager which is pretty much a figurehead in baseball anyway.

I hope that Howe works out, but IMHO signing Alfonso is the most important move to be made this offseason.
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Old 10-24-02, 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by Jericho


Which brings me to Tampa Bay. I really don't know why Lou Pinella would do this. I suppose it is a job, and the weather is nice, but Tampa? The team stinks. They won't be good anytime soon, so it will be some long seasons for Old Lou. On the other hand, Tampa can't get any worse, so there's nowhere to go but up. Whatever "improvement" they have will at least make Pinella look good.

The same thing was said about Pinella moving to Seattle around a decade ago.
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Old 10-24-02, 03:02 PM
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Art Howe is a great guy. He used to work with my father years ago, and when he managed the astros I used to get to go into the dugout and meet players and such...what a thrill that was for me being like 11-13 years old at the time. Bagwell, Biggio, Caminiti...

He's a pretty decent manager too.
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Old 10-24-02, 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by Applejack
The worst thing for Lou and the D-rays is that they had to trade their best player Randy Winn for him... not to mention that they used money that could have been used to lure FA's on a manager which is pretty much a figurehead in baseball anyway.

I hope that Howe works out, but IMHO signing Alfonso is the most important move to be made this offseason.
agree 100% on both points.

let's go mets
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Old 10-24-02, 03:56 PM
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Howe should be a good manager in taking care of the Mets rookies that should be coming up in a few years. I think that he handles younger pitchers very well. Hopefully he'll take care of Heilman right now and Strange, Kazmir, and Peterson in a couple of years. I think he'll probably integrate a few rookies into the team (finally).

Hopefully the expectations aren't very high, because the Mets certainly are going nowhere next season. They need to get some youth in there and go for it in 2004/2005.

Last edited by Shamu; 10-24-02 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 10-24-02, 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Applejack
The worst thing for Lou and the D-rays is that they had to trade their best player Randy Winn for him... not to mention that they used money that could have been used to lure FA's on a manager which is pretty much a figurehead in baseball anyway.
I've heard that the Mariners get to choose one of Winn, Grieve, or Rocco Baldelli! IMO, Winn is extremely overrated. He's a solid player, but not great. It would be so shocking of the DRays give up Baldelli for Lou...I would rather keep a top 10 prospect (20 years old in AAA) than give him up for a MANAGER!
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Old 10-24-02, 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by DTIT
The same thing was said about Pinella moving to Seattle around a decade ago.
The difference was that in Seattle, he already had Griffey Jr. and Randy Johnson.

In Tampa, he already doesn't have Randy Winn anymore, so who does that leave? Carl Crawford? Ben Grieve? Crawford is a nice player, but Grieve is a bum. Neither is a Griffey or Johnson.
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Old 10-24-02, 06:54 PM
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I haven't followed the story. So how did Seattle scam a player out of this? Wasn't Piniella quitting anyway?
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Old 10-24-02, 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by DarkElf
I haven't followed the story. So how did Seattle scam a player out of this? Wasn't Piniella quitting anyway?
He's under contract with Seattle for one more year, so any team that wanted sign him had to give Seattle compensation.
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Old 10-24-02, 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by juiio
He's under contract with Seattle for one more year, so any team that wanted sign him had to give Seattle compensation.
So even if he quits outright, teams have to wait until his official contract is over to sign him? Interesting that you can quit yet still be under contract. (or will Lou still collect a salary from Seattle for NEXT year?)
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Old 10-24-02, 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Yancey
Howe is not a great manager. I consider Beane more responsible for the A's success than Howe. Howe has made some very strange managerial decisions (not getting Zito two starts in the Twins series, to cite a recent example).
Werd. Go A's.

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Old 10-24-02, 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by Yancey
Howe is not a great manager. I consider Beane more responsible for the A's success than Howe. Howe has made some very strange managerial decisions (not getting Zito two starts in the Twins series, to cite a recent example).
Apparently it's not all Art Howe's fault.

From the Oakland Tribune -

"Howe catches considerable heat from A's fans for not bunting enough, for setting up the A's pitching rotation all wrong for the playoffs, for not being demonstrative, etc.

That's so much bunk. What A's fans don't know is that Beane doesn't want the bunt; he wants the home run. And Beane helped Howe set up the rotation that gave Cy Young Award candidate Barry Zito one postseason start. Beane considers himself the pseudo manager of the A's."

Link to the rest of the article
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Old 10-24-02, 09:40 PM
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I always thought Beane was brilliant...

Set it up so that you're the defacto manager, then blame the actual manager when things go wrong. Perfect. I was right, Beane *IS* a genius.
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Old 10-24-02, 09:41 PM
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Talent makes great managers.

If I managed the Yankees, I'd be a great manager.
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Old 10-24-02, 09:47 PM
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Not even Jesus can save this bunch of veteran misfits who play in crappy Shea Stadium...
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Old 10-24-02, 10:00 PM
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Originally posted by classicman2
Talent makes great managers.

If I managed the Yankees, I'd be a great manager.
I don't agree with this at all, not in baseball, not in the business world, and really, they're not all that different.

You have to get the talent to work together. You have to structure the environment to get the most out of your talent. You have to smooth over disagreements and ego issues. You have to make business/game decisions and use a good strategy to succeed.

If you're a bad manager in general, or fail in any of these issues, you won't succeed, regardless of how much talent you have.

Of course, if you have no talent, you have very little hope of succeeded.
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