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"Michael Jordan,Wayne Gretzky-they've all been here before.Why not Barry?" -D. Baker

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"Michael Jordan,Wayne Gretzky-they've all been here before.Why not Barry?" -D. Baker

Old 10-16-02, 12:28 PM
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"Michael Jordan,Wayne Gretzky-they've all been here before.Why not Barry?" -D. Baker

Barry Bonds is a great player but I don't really think it apropos to compare him to a Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky... There is no doubt that they are the greatest who ever played their respective sport but there's quite a debate in regards to Bonds.
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Old 10-16-02, 12:39 PM
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I have despised Bonds all my life, but something happened to me this year. I still don't like him, but seeing the numbers he has put up proves his offensive dominence over any player past or present. Just the fact that he gets 2-3 pitches a game and drives one out of the ballpark is remarkable. Sure MJ could make the shot, but his teamates passed him the ball. Bonds can only achieve if the opposing pitcher gives him the chance. His defense still leaves something to be desired . . . which does put him at odds with MJ who refined every part of his game.
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Old 10-16-02, 12:40 PM
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i dont follow hockey, and really dont know anything about this

but was wayne really that much better then mario?
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Old 10-16-02, 01:07 PM
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Keep in mind that baseball has much longer of a history than Hockey and Basketball do. Thousands of more players have played baseball.
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Old 10-16-02, 01:23 PM
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if he breaks Aaron's record I'll put him up there. Never in my relatively short lifetime have I seen one player (not a pitcher) be so influencial in a game.
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Old 10-16-02, 01:24 PM
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True about baseball history, but in recent history, (past 25 years), There is no one that comes close to bonds offensively. Pitching, maybe Nolan Ryan, but thats it.
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Old 10-16-02, 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by grrrah
True about baseball history, but in recent history, (past 25 years), There is no one that comes close to bonds offensively. Pitching, maybe Nolan Ryan, but thats it.
ouch.. you just hurt yourself with the ryan comment
most people think nolan's stats are due to the fact that he played for 97 years, not because he was all that great of a pitcher
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Old 10-16-02, 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by twikoff
ouch.. you just hurt yourself with the ryan comment
most people think nolan's stats are due to the fact that he played for 97 years, not because he was all that great of a pitcher
"Most people"????? Ryan was a great pitcher, I think "most" people agree on that. And Ryan was a force and freak of nature. 7 no-hitters!!!!! Yes, he had flaws, but I think "most people" would agree that when Ryan was on, no pitcher has ever been more dominant. I think 7 no-hitters and an insane number of 1 and 2 hitters, as well as an insane number of high strikeout games, show that quite clearly.

That being said, when you look at his whole career, he wasn't the greatest pitcher ever, I will easily admit that. But you don't get 7 no hitters because you played for 97 years...
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Old 10-16-02, 02:04 PM
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Quoth LurkerDan
"Most people"?????



Don't get too excited. twikoff prefaces all opinions with "most people ..." It's his style.

As to the original post, many would argue against Jordan being the best in his sport. I think they're delusional, but still ... there are many who think that. That being said, whether Bonds is or is not the best to ever play his sport, he's on the "Short List"

As to Baker's comment, baseball's a different sport. While all these sports are "team" sports, it's much easier for a great player to dominate basketball (particularly the one-on-one NBA game) or hockey. His Airness and the Great One could have a significant impact on every single possession when they were in the game. Bonds can only play an offensive role 1 out of every 9 players and maybe gets one chance a game to make a defensive play that's not "routine." They're just different types of "team" sports.

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Old 10-16-02, 05:31 PM
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alright, I'm busted... I was only going of pitchers that I have seen growing up, not of all time.. I could have used maddux instead, but I was taking into account that he was good for all 97 years. Maddux has what 10 years? okay, if i am forgetting some obvious pitcher then its because my brain is full of gas right now.
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Old 10-16-02, 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
"Most people"????? Ryan was a great pitcher, I think "most" people agree on that. And Ryan was a force and freak of nature. 7 no-hitters!!!!! Yes, he had flaws, but I think "most people" would agree that when Ryan was on, no pitcher has ever been more dominant. I think 7 no-hitters and an insane number of 1 and 2 hitters, as well as an insane number of high strikeout games, show that quite clearly.

That being said, when you look at his whole career, he wasn't the greatest pitcher ever, I will easily admit that. But you don't get 7 no hitters because you played for 97 years...
major off topic but i was at the 7th no hitter and the game the next night where he almost got his 8th. You can say nolan stats wouldn't be as good if he had to face some of todays hitters, but that doesn't change the fact he was one of the greatest pitchers. Also he put up his last no hitter late in his career so it wasn't like he was hanging around till he could get X number of strike outs even if he sucks doing it.

Ryan is baseball, ask a non-baseball fan over 20 to name a pitcher and I bet they will say Ryan. The same way non basketball fans can name Jordan and non hockey fans can name Gretzky.
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Old 10-17-02, 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by hypeiv
major off topic but i was at the 7th no hitter and the game the next night where he almost got his 8th.
How amazing would it have been if Ryan had 2 no hitters in two days??? Heheheh.. okay sarcasm off.

Ryan was an amazing pitcher and a total freak of nature. They had him throwing BP to the guys from the Best Damn Sport Show a month or two ago and I think they said he was clocking mid to high 80s on the Juggs. Not sure if they were 100% serious but I certainly thought it looked about that speed and even commented to my wife on it, before they made the statement. Ryan wasn't the best pitcher ever, but when he was on he was certainly one of the most dominating. How he got traded 3 times I'll never know.

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Old 10-17-02, 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by grrrah
alright, I'm busted... I was only going of pitchers that I have seen growing up, not of all time.. I could have used maddux instead, but I was taking into account that he was good for all 97 years. Maddux has what 10 years? okay, if i am forgetting some obvious pitcher then its because my brain is full of gas right now.
Actually, didn't Maddux just tie Cy Young for most consecutive years of 15 or more wins? I believe it was 15 seasons, IIRC.
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Old 10-17-02, 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by Mordred
How amazing would it have been if Ryan had 2 no hitters in two days??? Heheheh.. okay sarcasm off.
hehe sorry just thinking about Ryan brought back memories of the days when I was still passionate about baseball. I was pissed when he left houston.
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Old 10-17-02, 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by jookie
. . . .but seeing the numbers he has put up proves his offensive dominence over any player past or present.
How about 1926-1927 Babe Ruth? Add in '28 as well.

Or

or 23-24?

30-32?

Surely Bonds is doing an amazing job but your comment is pure hyperbole. He had 2 of the best back to back season in the history of baseball. Ruth is probably the only one comparable. But then recall the offensive production of the rest of the league then. Ruth was much better than the next best player (as compared to Bonds). And the Babe didn't use no juice.

Check the numbers I'm talking about here (a great site, too)
http://www.baseballreference.com/r/ruthba01.shtml
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Old 10-18-02, 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by Bushdog
And the Babe didn't use no juice.
Take cover, flame war starting... hehe
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Old 10-18-02, 03:08 AM
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Re: "Michael Jordan,Wayne Gretzky-they've all been here before.Why not Barry?" -D. Baker

Originally posted by neiname
Barry Bonds is a great player but I don't really think it apropos to compare him to a Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky... There is no doubt that they are the greatest who ever played their respective sport but there's quite a debate in regards to Bonds.

What do you mean there is no doubt Jordan is the greatest to play his game. I will put Kareem Abdul Jabbars stats against Jordans any day. Jordan is great but shot more times than anybody else to boost his scoring average. I would also rate Bird and Magic above Jordan because they weren't afraid to pass the ball too. Gretzky is definatly Mr. Hockey. Bonds is great but he is not Willie Mays just yet.
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