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Mets: Strike three for Valentine?

Old 10-01-02, 12:00 PM
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Mets: Strike three for Valentine.

http://treets.wnbc.com/svc/lnk.cfm?l=12752300&t=1

Mets To Fire Valentine
Move Follows Second Straight Disappointing Season

NEW YORK -- The New York Mets have decided to fire manager Bobby Valentine following a second straight disappointing season.

The Mets scheduled an afternoon news conference, saying only that a "major" announcement would be made.

Mets owner Fred Wilpon decided in the past few days to fire Valentine. Wilpon previously had issued several votes of confidence for both Valentine and general manager Steve Phillips.

Valentine just finished the second year of a three-year contract and the Mets will be responsible for his 2003 salary of approximately $2.7 million.

The Mets finished with a record of 75-86, just two seasons after reaching the World Series under Valentine. It was their first last-place finish since 1993.

Last month, Newsday reported that seven Mets smoked marijuana during the season, although the newspaper said Tuesday that Wilpon's decision was based on the team's performance in the past two seasons.

Last edited by Rogue588; 10-02-02 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 10-01-02, 12:42 PM
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i wonder if cliff floyd will send him a gift basket
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Old 10-01-02, 12:59 PM
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3 o clock press conference to announce.

i like the guy, what can i say. i met him back in april, he was a good guy - personable, friendly, knowledgable.

i don't wanna get into it with all you bobby haters, but he did the job in '99 and '00, outmanaging some of the games' best coaches with mediocre players. but he just wasn't the right man to take this group to the top.

i don't put all the blame on him, but given all the circumstances, probably the best thing to do.

any speculation on who the mets are going after?
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Old 10-01-02, 01:01 PM
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just saw this on espn ...

Valentine out; Mets to retain GM Phillips

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press
NEW YORK -- Manager Bobby Valentine was fired by the New York Mets on Tuesday after a last-place finish in the NL East.

Bobby Valentine did a lot of pacing this season, especially during a 12-game losing streak in August that destroyed the Mets' playoff chances.

The Mets will announce Valentine's firing at a 3 p.m. ET news conference. Valentine and general manager Steve Phillips, who will be retained by the club, will attend the news conference.

According to a report on Newsday's Web site, Mets owner Fred Wilpon decided in the past few days to fire Valentine. Wilpon previously had issued several votes of confidence for both Valentine and Phillips.

The team put together a $102 million payroll last offseason, bringing in Roberto Alomar, Mo Vaughn, Roger Cedeno and others, but struggled all year.

The Mets finished with a record of 75-86, just two seasons after reaching the World Series -- the first Subway Series in 44 years -- under Valentine. It was their first last-place finish in the NL East since 1993 and they finished below .500 for the first time in six years.

Valentine just finished the second year of a three-year contract and the Mets will be responsible for his 2003 salary of approximately $2.7 million, Newsday reported.

Valentine is the fourth manager fired since Sunday, the last day of the regular season. The Chicago Cubs dismissed Bruce Kimm on Sunday, while Hal McRae of Tampa Bay and Luis Pujols of Detroit lost their jobs Monday.

There were eight other managerial changes during the season.

Valentine managed the Mets for seven seasons -- 1996 to 2002; he was on board for only 31 games that first season. His record as Mets manager is 536-467. Valentine managed the Rangers from 1985 to his firing during the 1992 season.

Last month, Newsday reported that seven Mets smoked marijuana during the season, although the newspaper said Tuesday that Wilpon's decision was based on the team's performance in the past two seasons.

The Mets went into the season with high hopes after Phillips' reconstruction of the roster. But the team played uninspired baseball almost from the start and there were a number of embarrassments.

"We didn't play the game as well as we should have," Valentine said near the season's end. "Because of that, I second-guess everything I did. That's totally my responsibility."

The Mets played poor fundamental baseball and were shaken by off-the-field turmoil. Slugger Mike Piazza was questioned about his sexual orientation, Alomar and Cedeno engaged in a shoving match in the dugout, there was a public feud and lawsuit between Wilpon and his former partner and co-owner, Nelson Doubleday, accusations from former Mets player Keith Hernandez that the team quit, and finally the drug report.

The trouble ran all through the roster.

Vaughn took half a season to find his rhythm after missing all of 2001 with an injury. Alomar, a Gold Glove second baseman, made 11 errors and never looked comfortable in the field, and hit a career-low .266.

Cedeno only managed 25 steals, Shawn Estes went 4-9 before being traded, and Jeromy Burnitz had one good month and hit .215.

The Mets were 13th in the league in runs, had the most errors in the majors with 144, and looked nothing like the team that won the NL pennant just two years ago.

Despite all the troubles, the Mets were in contention after winning 11 of 16 games to end July just 4 games out of the wild-card lead.

Then came one of the worst months in team history. New York had a 12-game losing streak and didn't win a game at Shea Stadium in all of August -- part of an NL-record 15-game home losing streak.
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Old 10-01-02, 01:03 PM
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I like Valentine, and it's a shame he had to be fired....but something really had to be done. The vetran bums on the team are to blame, but you can't fire them so bobby had to take the heat.

Thet mets would have done better playing some of their young talnet than picking up people like Mo at $12 million a year for his 18 errors and .250 average.
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Old 10-01-02, 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by PunkYou
The vetran bums on the team are to blame
Don't you mean veteran blunts

As an aside, i'm a Yankees fan, but BV did seem like a stand up kinda guy.
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Old 10-01-02, 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Rogue588
Don't you mean veteran blunts

As an aside, i'm a Yankees fan, but BV did seem like a stand up kinda guy.
Well the weed thing was made bigger than it really was. It was a bunch of people who played minor roles with the team, some of which are no longer Mets.


The performance has more to do with huge names with big contracts hitting around .250 like Alomar, Vaughn, Burnitz, etc.
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Old 10-01-02, 01:33 PM
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I think that he'll be back wearing the old glasses-and-moustache in the Mets dugout next season anyway.

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Old 10-01-02, 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by PunkYou
I like Valentine, and it's a shame he had to be fired....but something really had to be done. The vetran bums on the team are to blame, but you can't fire them so bobby had to take the heat.
That's the way I look at it too. I don't necessarily think it was his fault, but I think he had to go. Personally, I'm not sure about Phillips. SOme of his moves were brilliant but didn't pay off (getting ALomar), some were a risk, but one that seemed worth taking (Vaughn, Burnitz), but some were downright stupid from day 1 (Cedeno).
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Old 10-01-02, 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by PunkYou
Well the weed thing was made bigger than it really was. It was a bunch of people who played minor roles with the team, some of which are no longer Mets.


The performance has more to do with huge names with big contracts hitting around .250 like Alomar, Vaughn, Burnitz, etc.
Had the mets won 100 games, the weed thing probably would have never come to light. Everyone likes a winner, and they like to kick a loser when they are down.

I think BV is a good coach but it is probably time for him to go.

The next hire is very important. Will they get a young coach to help rebuild and grow with the team, or will they get a name to try and win now?
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Old 10-01-02, 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Applejack
The next hire is very important. Will they get a young coach to help rebuild and grow with the team, or will they get a name to try and win now?
agree ... would like to a brroks robinson type of coach, someone who won't tolerate nonsense like bad baserunning or head first slides into first *ugh*

it's when a team doesn't do the little things - that's what really pisses me off. i mean you're going to be out about 5-7 times every 10 abs. fine - but don't tell me you can't run hard down to first or pay attention on the bases. that's inexcuseable.
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Old 10-01-02, 03:07 PM
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If Wilpon was smart, he'd have fired Phillips and kept Valentine...
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Old 10-01-02, 05:53 PM
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The is so typical of the Mets. Bobby Valentine has been an embarassment to the city of New York for the past few years and Mets fans should have been ashamed to be associated with that guy ... but the Mets showing this year was completely out of his control. Myself and others were laughed off the forum when we predicted the complete collapse of the Mets before this season started (should have happened the last two seasons but was somehow avoided). The Mets were destined to suck this year, despite moronic sports writers hopping on them to win the division. To be honest, I never thought they'd be this bad, but they have much bigger problems than Bobby V.

Hopefully they go yet another season failing to realize they need to tear down and rebuild. As a Braves fan, it's great seeing them at the bottom of the division. But as much as I hate Bobby V, he's not the reason they sucked this season (Phillips, on the other hand ...).

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Old 10-01-02, 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by weargle
I think that he'll be back wearing the old glasses-and-moustache in the Mets dugout next season anyway.

I thought this disguise was absolutely ridiculous (but hilarious!).
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Old 10-01-02, 06:50 PM
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Steve Philips is a tough call. The guy moved some big contracts in the off season (Robin Ventura, Todd Zeile). Most people thought no one would take these guys. On the other hand, the list of great EX-Mets is enormous. Bobby Valentine I never liked. Let me offer one example of being a bad manager - I'll compare Torre to Valentine: The situation is the Mets are in a close game. Runners on 1st and 3rd, Benitez on the mound. Bobby V is blowing bubbles, pacing the dug-out watching Benitez. As an ex-pitcher I can tell you that the situation is tense enough - you don't need your manager making you more tense. I've seen Torre in the same situation - granted Rivera is twice the closer Benitez is. But Torre's expression never changed. His apparent confidence served to help his pitcher. Bobby V is too self centered to realize this.
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Old 10-01-02, 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
Myself and others were laughed off the forum when we predicted the complete collapse of the Mets before this season started
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No offense, but the reason you were taken with a grain of salt is because you are a Braves fan, and you and the others (probably other braves fans) probably say that every year.
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Old 10-01-02, 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by parrotheads4
Let me offer one example of being a bad manager - I'll compare Torre to Valentine: The situation is the Mets are in a close game. Runners on 1st and 3rd, Benitez on the mound. Bobby V is blowing bubbles, pacing the dug-out watching Benitez. As an ex-pitcher I can tell you that the situation is tense enough - you don't need your manager making you more tense. I've seen Torre in the same situation - granted Rivera is twice the closer Benitez is. But Torre's expression never changed. His apparent confidence served to help his pitcher. Bobby V is too self centered to realize this.
I can agree with everything there, but to say it's b/c BV is too self-centered is a bit much. Some managers pace, others just sit there expressionless, and I don't think it is b/c they're self-centered. It's just the way they deal with tense situations and not because they're bad people.
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Old 10-01-02, 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
Myself and others were laughed off the forum when we predicted the complete collapse of the Mets before this season started (should have happened the last two seasons but was somehow avoided).
Don't Braves fans say this every year?


Steve Phillips made a lot of bone head moves too. [cough]Rey Ordonez contract extension for $6 mil per year. [/cough]
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Old 10-01-02, 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by DarkElf
I can agree with everything there, but to say it's b/c BV is too self-centered is a bit much. Some managers pace, others just sit there expressionless, and I don't think it is b/c they're self-centered. It's just the way they deal with tense situations and not because they're bad people.
Good point. All I could think about was Leo Mazzone's rocking. If not used to it, that could get disconcerting...

Torre wasn't such a genius till he started managing the Yanks. (Don't get me wrong, I love Joe, but there are different styles).
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Old 10-01-02, 10:09 PM
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I hope Bobby V. knows that the Texas Rangers are hiring!
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Old 10-02-02, 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
Bobby Valentine has been an embarassment to the city of New York for the past few years and Mets fans should have been ashamed to be associated with that guy
"The New York Baseball Writers Association's 79th annual dinner took place on January 27th. At the event, Bobby Valentine was given the Joan Payson Award for his work helping families of September 11th victims and rescue workers"

He also auctioned off a good portion of his personal collection of baseball memorabilia to benefit victims funds for 9/11.


Oh yeah, he also took them to the World Series...


but yeah...an embarassment to the city. whatever.
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Old 10-02-02, 09:11 AM
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Clarification: Valentine's actions in the MLB arena have been an embarassment to the city. While Torre conducts himself with dignity, Valentine took every opportunity to make a mockery of sport he was managing. That doesn't mean he's not a good person.

As for being a fan of a team eliminating your ability to speak intelligently about other teams, well that's just silly. There've been years where I've been very afraid the Mets would take us down (3 years ago for one). But since their World Series run they've just barely held together. I figured their complete collapse would have come earlier than this season. And as much as I hate Valentine as a manager, I wonder if he shouldn't be given a lot of credit for stretching that team out as far as he did and delaying their collapse until this year.

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Old 10-02-02, 11:19 AM
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i believe a fan for one team can write objectively about another team's woes/successes. in fact, it's often times a good perspective on what can be a person's rose-colored view.

having said that, i don't think bobby was ever the elite manager many pictured him to be. but i do think he was certainly one of the best of all the "good" managers out there.

as for valentine's actions in the mlb arena, i wouldn't call it an embarassment. let's be honest, with sub-par players, he did outmanage many others who are today considered to be "elite". his loss of control in the clubhouse i think, is more the direct effect of a constant changing of the guard, a refusal of top brass to include him on key decisions, and a double-edged tongue that is called witty when winning and underhanded when losing.

the woes of the mets this year are not entirely bobby's fault. in fact, he's probably #3 to blame behind the players and phillips. but someone has to go for this year's failure. being that you can't fire 25 players, the easiest finger falls on bobby. it's unfortunately, part of the job, and something that other 'elite' managers including torre, pinella, and larussa will tell you.
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Old 10-02-02, 12:35 PM
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Quoth qbert
being that you can't fire 25 players ...



I think this mentality gets many teams into trouble. There are times when this is precisely what they should be doing (obviously not all 25, but a tear down and rebuild). They spend countless dollars trying to bring in one or two more big name players to fix the problem when the problem is really the whole team. Then the manager gets the axe when it doesn't work.

If Bobby V's firing is phase 1 of a rebuilding process for the Mets, then they're on the right track. If, however, they hope to fix their problems by simply firing him and signing a few free agents, I hope they like the view from last place.

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Old 10-02-02, 01:19 PM
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agree ... though it is much harder for a ny team that in most other places. the knicks should've been thinking this way as well, but i guess maybe it's the pressure of the media and fans in general that gets many of the city's teams thinking this way.
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