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Will PJ change the ending of ROTK for Aragorn?

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Will PJ change the ending of ROTK for Aragorn?

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Old 12-22-02 | 07:41 PM
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Will PJ change the ending of ROTK for Aragorn?

I was wondering if in the film version Aragorn will marry Eowyn instead of Arwen. I seem to recall reading about Arwen's "death" being filmed but that scene was more or less shown in TTT.

Eowyn marries Faramir in the books, but I don't think the films have developed the two of them enough to have their love get any impact.
Old 12-22-02 | 08:06 PM
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I seriously doubt that at all.

I kind of took the Arwen scene, especially the look back at Elrond and the face he made afterwards, to mean that she had decided to stay in middle earth.

I figure Aragorn will still marry Arwen, and they may not show Eowyn marrying anyone. If she does it will be developed within ROTK.
Old 12-22-02 | 08:56 PM
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I thbink that they will still develop the Faramir/Eowyn plot, otherwise why bother to have he attraction to Aragorn at all. But how much of it will be developed is in question, perhaps it will be just a beginning for them.
Old 12-23-02 | 09:21 AM
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The Eowyn/Faramir subplot takes place wholely in ROTK, I believe. There is no reason for the two to have met at this point, and I don't believe that all of this Arwen setup would be tossed at the end for an easy out ... ie, Aragorn choosing Eowyn. Her character is merely dramatic tension in TT, but will evolve (hopefully) in the next.
Old 12-23-02 | 09:30 AM
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Of course Aragorn is going to marry Arwen, silly. Liv Tyler is billed above Miranda Otto.
Old 12-23-02 | 11:48 AM
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Why doesn't he just go for a menage-a-trois?
Old 12-23-02 | 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by Dr. DVD
Why doesn't he just go for a menage-a-trois?
Hopefully this will be in the ROTK EE
Old 12-23-02 | 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by Dr. DVD
Why doesn't he just go for a menage-a-trois?
"Your sword? I thought it was broken."
Old 12-24-02 | 01:05 PM
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I'm personally wondering whether Frodo will end up with Samwise or Gollum.
Old 12-24-02 | 11:54 PM
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Originally posted by Dr. DVD
Why doesn't he just go for a menage-a-trois?


I said the exact same thing to my friend while we were watching this in the theatre.
Old 12-25-02 | 07:53 PM
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Spoiler:
I just pray he doesn't make Gollum destroy the ring on purpose, in some final self-sacrificing way. It needs to be like in the books.
Old 12-25-02 | 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by TheMadMonk
Spoiler:
I just pray he doesn't make Gollum destroy the ring on purpose, in some final self-sacrificing way. It needs to be like in the books.
I always knew I'd get into an argument about this sooner or later since I do not like the way
Spoiler:
the ring is destroyed in the book.

But it has never even occurred to me to change it so Gollum destroys it intentionally. I can't imagine it would be changed that way.

What I have always wanted to see since reading the trilogy for the first time in 1966, was to set it up so the ultimate act is Frodo's choice. The way it happens seems to be just some sort of cosmic occurrence of good (or great, really) luck when Gollum happens to fall.

I understand that Tolkien wanted to show the power of the ring ultimately getting to Frodo but I would still rather see him destroy it by choice, ultimately overcoming the ring's power at the end.

Perhaps after Gollum bites off Frodo's finger, Frodo wrestles the ring back, rips it off the finger and is about to put it on another finger, hesitates, hears Sam ("Mr. Frodo!" sounding faint and very far away) yelling at him to throw the ring in Mount Doom, garners the strength to overcome the ring's power and throws it in. Gollum, in his obsesseion, jumps in in a desperate attempt to get the ring. He could even catch it but, sorry, too late! Precioussss...


I don't expect Jackson to change it but that is the ending (or something like it) I'd prefer.

Last edited by movielib; 12-25-02 at 10:01 PM.
Old 12-25-02 | 09:29 PM
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I have no intention of arguing with you, movielib. Not to say that your suggestion is bad or anything (which it isn't), I just think that the way it is written, it being the climax of the movie, that it should at least stay true to how Tolkien wrote it.

Spoiler:
and I've heard it said that tolkien even wrote somewhere (in his notes, I think), that nobody alive, not Frodo, not Aragorn, not Gandalf, nor Galadriel or Elrond, would be able to actually willingly cast the ring into the Cracks of Doom, were they to make it that far. It could be argued that at that place, within Mordor, in the same mountain where it was created, the ring might just be at the absolute pinnacle of its power over whoever holds it.
Old 12-25-02 | 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by TheMadMonk
I have no intention of arguing with you, movielib. Not to say that your suggestion is bad or anything (which it isn't), I just think that the way it is written, it being the climax of the movie, that it should at least stay true to how Tolkien wrote it.

Spoiler:
and I've heard it said that tolkien even wrote somewhere (in his notes, I think), that nobody alive, not Frodo, not Aragorn, not Gandalf, nor Galadriel or Elrond, would be able to actually willingly cast the ring into the Cracks of Doom, were they to make it that far. It could be argued that at that place, within Mordor, in the same mountain where it was created, the ring might just be at the absolute pinnacle of its power over whoever holds it.
I wasn't really talking about arguing with you. I just know some will argue my point.

Spoiler:
It seems to me that if that was what Tolkien's thoughts on it were, it certainly did not seem that Gandalf, the elves or anyone knew that for a fact. They knew it was an almost impossible quest but always thought there was hope, against all odds, that Frodo could somehow succeed.

I have no doubt that Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, Elrond or almost anyone else would have been sure to fail (Isildur couldn't destroy it). They were too powerful and thus much more susceptible to the ring's power than a simple hobbit. If any one of them had taken possession of the ring and kept it from Sauron, he or she would have eventually, in essence, become Sauron.

Anyway, what may have been in Tolkien's notes was not in the finished product.


I'm glad you think my idea isn't bad.
Old 12-25-02 | 10:12 PM
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I'm glad you think my idea isn't bad. [/B]
But you gotta admit, your idea really sounds like the traditional Hollywood happy ending, where the little guy finally finds the inner strength, etc, and that might satisfy movie-goers more than if PJ follows the book.

Spoiler:
Even though it is pretty much known that PJ is not going to have the "Scouring of the Shire" in the 3rd movie, I also really, really really, hope that he includes and properly conveys the sadness and meaning of the Grey Havens. Part of what I love about the books is these small things that go against the Hollywood fairy tale: Frodo's ultimate failure to destroy the ring (personally), and the tremendous sadness (for me, at least) at the Grey Havens, when so many important, powerful people leave the world voluntarily, because they see that the world has changed, and they no longer belong there. I hope I am crying my eyes out when I leave the theater. I better be. If there is some tacked-on super-happy ending, I will be pissed.
Old 12-25-02 | 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by Inverse
Of course Aragorn is going to marry Arwen, silly. Liv Tyler is billed above Miranda Otto.
dont be silly, the billing is by who's father has the most grammys.

personally, i just hope that RJ got all his super zoomed kissing scene fetish over with in TTT because saliva strands on the big scene just arent attractive.
Old 12-25-02 | 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by TheMadMonk
But you gotta admit, your idea really sounds like the traditional Hollywood happy ending, where the little guy finally finds the inner strength, etc, and that might satisfy movie-goers more than if PJ follows the book.
...
Spoiler:
I don't think concocting a happy accident in order to have a happy ending is any better.


Sometimes the "traditional" ending is the right one.
Old 12-26-02 | 09:17 AM
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After all he's done right, he damn well better not change the ending to make Frodo some kind of super-hero. I hate to sound like a fan boy, but that would be totally, completely wrong.
Old 12-26-02 | 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by Jason
After all he's done right, he damn well better not change the ending to make Frodo some kind of super-hero. I hate to sound like a fan boy, but that would be totally, completely wrong.
Spoiler:
I don't think my idea turns Frodo into a superhero at all. It allows him to do what even Gandalf, Aragorn, the elves etc. thought he might be able to do (which they knew none of them could) if he could get as far as Mount Doom.

Gollum's slipping is a deus ex machina that has bothered me for 36½ years.


As I said, I knew many people would disagree with me. But that's my opinion. And I'm sure Jackson won't do it.

Last edited by movielib; 12-26-02 at 11:09 AM.
Old 12-26-02 | 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by movielib
Spoiler:
I don't think my idea turns Frodo into a superhero at all. It allows him to do what even Gandalf, Aragorn, the elves etc. thought he might be able to do (which they knew none of them could) if he could get as far as Mount Doom.

Gollum's slipping is a deus ex machina that has bothered me for 36½ years.


As I said, I knew many people would disagree with me. But that's my opinion. And I'm sure Jackson won't do it.
The use of a deus ex machina is hardly something rare in Tolkien's books.
Old 12-26-02 | 06:06 PM
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Spoiler:

I think the Ring will be destroyed much as it was in the book.

Gandalf (in the movie) tells Frodo that Gollum might still have a part to play in this affair after all. Pretty strong fore-shadowing that he's going to be the one to destroy the Ring.
Old 12-26-02 | 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by Josh-da-man
Spoiler:

I think the Ring will be destroyed much as it was in the book.

Gandalf (in the movie) tells Frodo that Gollum might still have a part to play in this affair after all. Pretty strong fore-shadowing that he's going to be the one to destroy the Ring.
Spoiler:
I thought of that. I think it's in the books too but it's been an awfully long time since I read them so I may be wrong.

But there could be many ways for Gollum to have a part to play, and even a big one, short of following the ring ending in the book.


But as I've repeatedly said, I don't expect Jackson to change it.
Old 12-26-02 | 06:50 PM
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Spoiler:

I think that Frodo's failure to ultimately be the
one who destroys the ring over is important. It will explain
why he feels compelled to leave Middle Earth to heal.
He will be not only be brought down by his physical wounds
but also the psychological wounds of the burden of being
ringbearer but knowing secretly he failed. To come so far
only to fall into its grasp. It will also answer
Gandalf's foreshadowing that Gollum will have a role to play
in this adventure.

I saw Jackson and Wood on Charley Rose and Jackson is planning a real emotional ending. Wood said that he has seen the ending multiple times within few minutes and he could not
help being brought to tears.

Old 12-27-02 | 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by movielib
Spoiler:
I don't think my idea turns Frodo into a superhero at all. It allows him to do what even Gandalf, Aragorn, the elves etc. thought he might be able to do (which they knew none of them could) if he could get as far as Mount Doom.

Gollum's slipping is a deus ex machina that has bothered me for 36½ years.


As I said, I knew many people would disagree with me. But that's my opinion. And I'm sure Jackson won't do it.
But that deus ex machina is the point to Tolkien. His world view REQUIRES outside forces to accomplish ultimate good (or ultimate evil). {it's a Catholic/religious thing} Thus the ending in the book demonstrates only further that those mortal and inside the Music of the Ainur are incapable of accomplishing either ultimate good or ultimate evil without outside intervention (
Spoiler:
in the case of gollum and the ring's destruction, the outside intervention comes from faith and hope....
)
Old 12-27-02 | 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by wlmowery
But that deus ex machina is the point to Tolkien. His world view REQUIRES outside forces to accomplish ultimate good (or ultimate evil). {it's a Catholic/religious thing} Thus the ending in the book demonstrates only further that those mortal and inside the Music of the Ainur are incapable of accomplishing either ultimate good or ultimate evil without outside intervention (
Spoiler:
in the case of gollum and the ring's destruction, the outside intervention comes from faith and hope....
)
At least I now know why I'm not a Catholic/religious.

Last edited by movielib; 12-27-02 at 11:25 AM.


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