Toshiba cooking up "super-dvd" to best Blu-ray
05-31-08 | 07:10 PM
#1
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Toshiba cooking up "super-dvd" to best Blu-ray
http://tech.blorge.com/Structure:%20...-best-blu-ray/
It isn’t news that Sony’s Blu-Ray has bested Toshiba’s HD-DVD video format a while ago, and it certainly isn’t news that Toshiba is reeling from the defeat. But I don’t think anyone could have predicted that Toshiba would pull its beaten and bloodied self together and make another affront to Blu-Ray; Toshiba plans to release a “super” DVD player, an upscaling format that promises to deliver Blu-Ray definition out of normal DVDs for quite a few bucks less.
Daily Yomiuri Online and the Associated Press report that that Toshiba’s new format is based on a new technology that incorporates a new “large integrated circuit” which can “instantly convert images produced in the current format into high-resolution images.” As Blu-Ray’s resolution is about 6 times that of standard DVDs, that new circuit must be something special, because Toshiba claims it will be able to compare to Blu-Ray’s quality.
Toshiba plans to release the new players by the end of the year at lower price points than Blu-Ray players, in hopes of hooking customers considering a switch to the HD format. As there is a vastly larger collection of DVDs than Blu-Rays at this point in time, and at cheaper prices than Blu-Ray discs, this technology could potentially sway some customers.
However, as anyone that’s actually owned both an upconverting player and a real high-definition player will know, upconversion doesn’t hold a candle to the real thing. As lower resolution formats like DVD have fewer pixels, to create the illusion of high definition, the upconverter simulates pixels that aren’t really there. Generally that results in blur or not-crisp images.
I’ve never been a big proponent of upconverting for that very reason. All that upconverters do is confuse customers who aren’t savvy about the technology and delay progress. If people are buying upconverters, companies like Toshiba are only holding back the advancement of true HD format. All this comes off looking like is a sore loser trying to injure the competition because Toshiba knows it can’t win anymore.
Daily Yomiuri Online and the Associated Press report that that Toshiba’s new format is based on a new technology that incorporates a new “large integrated circuit” which can “instantly convert images produced in the current format into high-resolution images.” As Blu-Ray’s resolution is about 6 times that of standard DVDs, that new circuit must be something special, because Toshiba claims it will be able to compare to Blu-Ray’s quality.
Toshiba plans to release the new players by the end of the year at lower price points than Blu-Ray players, in hopes of hooking customers considering a switch to the HD format. As there is a vastly larger collection of DVDs than Blu-Rays at this point in time, and at cheaper prices than Blu-Ray discs, this technology could potentially sway some customers.
However, as anyone that’s actually owned both an upconverting player and a real high-definition player will know, upconversion doesn’t hold a candle to the real thing. As lower resolution formats like DVD have fewer pixels, to create the illusion of high definition, the upconverter simulates pixels that aren’t really there. Generally that results in blur or not-crisp images.
I’ve never been a big proponent of upconverting for that very reason. All that upconverters do is confuse customers who aren’t savvy about the technology and delay progress. If people are buying upconverters, companies like Toshiba are only holding back the advancement of true HD format. All this comes off looking like is a sore loser trying to injure the competition because Toshiba knows it can’t win anymore.
05-31-08 | 07:19 PM
#3
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Toshiba has ever right to keep DVD around as long as possible since it makes them money. Good for them. Maybe this will force the BDA to actually release full featured BD players at reasonable prices and lower disc prices. If it makes DVDs look better then what my XA2 can I'll pick one up.
05-31-08 | 08:29 PM
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Yeah, or maybe they'll just put that evil old BDA out of business, once and for all! Wouldn't that just be peachy?
I've seen plenty of up-converted DVDs, and to claim that it is possible to deliver an image identical in quality to Blu-ray from an SD DVD is the stuff of pure fantasy.
The more I hear from Toshiba lately, the more I hope they end up out of business, once and for all.
I've seen plenty of up-converted DVDs, and to claim that it is possible to deliver an image identical in quality to Blu-ray from an SD DVD is the stuff of pure fantasy.
The more I hear from Toshiba lately, the more I hope they end up out of business, once and for all.
05-31-08 | 08:42 PM
#5
DVD Talk Legend
It is impossible to take video encoded 480i and turn it into 1080p with any magic chip.
Good upconverters do a good job of reducing noise and getting the best out of the video available but it is still night and day when compared to real HD.
This sounds like Toshiba trying to drum up some DVD player sales to make back some of their losses. DVD is still dominating BD in sales every week and honestly I don't see that changing anytime soon. DVD is hardly the format that needs to be saved by Toshiba.
Good upconverters do a good job of reducing noise and getting the best out of the video available but it is still night and day when compared to real HD.
This sounds like Toshiba trying to drum up some DVD player sales to make back some of their losses. DVD is still dominating BD in sales every week and honestly I don't see that changing anytime soon. DVD is hardly the format that needs to be saved by Toshiba.
05-31-08 | 08:54 PM
#6
They lost over $600 million in developing HD DVD. I guess they need to do something to try and make that money back, even if it means trying to trick the public into buying. This is the same company that was heavily pushing HD DVD players on unsuspecting customers even after WB dropped the format.
05-31-08 | 08:59 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by darkside
This sounds like Toshiba trying to drum up some DVD player sales to make back some of their losses. DVD is still dominating BD in sales every week and honestly I don't see that changing anytime soon. DVD is hardly the format that needs to be saved by Toshiba.
While Toshiba ate a ton of losses because of HD DVD, I don't think things are preachy keen with the BDA. They invested a ton of money into Blu-ray and with all the promotions and "incentives" it may take years for them to even break even on their investment of Blu-ray. Toshiba is simply trying to breath fresh life into their now 12 year old format, and if it works, good for them. If not, then, well, they need to bring out an XA2 Blu-ray player. Simple enough.
I'm curious to see what, if any stores, will actually carry this. Toshiba burned a ton of bridges with HD DVD, so it may be tough to get stores to actually carry these.
05-31-08 | 09:15 PM
#8
If you read my posts a few months ago--and further back when Toshiba announced HD DVD no more, I said Toshiba was making plans to thwart all High-Def by saying upconversion was better than HD. It's a lazy-ass tactic because they don't have to expend hardly any new hardware, other than an upconverting chip. Thier top-level execs were commenting about how upconverting was so amazing and rivals HD or is as good as, and I saw this shit coming.
It is impossible to upconvert quality to HD when the fucking quality and data isn't even there to begin with. It's like Toshiba is saying they can make a Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo out of a Volkswagen by simply re-arranging the parts.
Thanks, Toshiba, for confusing the consumer even more.
It is impossible to upconvert quality to HD when the fucking quality and data isn't even there to begin with. It's like Toshiba is saying they can make a Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo out of a Volkswagen by simply re-arranging the parts.
Thanks, Toshiba, for confusing the consumer even more.
Last edited by DVD Polizei; 05-31-08 at 09:19 PM.
05-31-08 | 09:21 PM
#9
DVD Talk Legend
Upconverted DVD's looking as good as Blu Ray discs... 
You can't get 1080 out of 480, not with anywhere near the definition and crispness of a real 1080 source.
Toshiba's got an axe to grind, and now they're trying to kill Blu Ray to save face after their format war loss.
I agree that there will be a lot of retailers that will be hesitant to carry these players. (And I also agree that they are likely just reworked HDDVD players.)
You can't get 1080 out of 480, not with anywhere near the definition and crispness of a real 1080 source.
Toshiba's got an axe to grind, and now they're trying to kill Blu Ray to save face after their format war loss.
I agree that there will be a lot of retailers that will be hesitant to carry these players. (And I also agree that they are likely just reworked HDDVD players.)
05-31-08 | 10:11 PM
#10
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If Toshiba cant win the next gen format war - then maybe they can make sure neither does Sony. Up-conversion players were never really mass-marketed - you can get them at any store, but the marketing of them as something that improved quality was never put out there.
If you can sell the public that its "good enough" - and hundreds cheaper, why would you drop $400? They have a shit-load of lemons and they're trying to make lemonade (and also hit in Sony's Kool-Aid)
If you can sell the public that its "good enough" - and hundreds cheaper, why would you drop $400? They have a shit-load of lemons and they're trying to make lemonade (and also hit in Sony's Kool-Aid)
05-31-08 | 10:28 PM
#11
Toshiba is rather late to the upconverting DVD game as well. Oppo has been providing some great upconverting players for several years, and Toshiba just figured it out?
"High-Def is the best quality available and Toshiba is at the forefront of this technology..." - Toshiba Pre-2008
"High-Def sucks ass, fuck you Sony, and Super-Resolution is the way to go..." - Toshiba March 2008
"High-Def is the best quality available and Toshiba is at the forefront of this technology..." - Toshiba Pre-2008
"High-Def sucks ass, fuck you Sony, and Super-Resolution is the way to go..." - Toshiba March 2008
05-31-08 | 11:11 PM
#14
DVD Talk Godfather
Originally Posted by B5Erik
I agree that there will be a lot of retailers that will be hesitant to carry these players. (And I also agree that they are likely just reworked HDDVD players.)
05-31-08 | 11:14 PM
#15
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Why? It's just a standard DVD player that upconverts a tad more than anyone else on the market. It's not a new format.
06-01-08 | 12:39 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
The more I hear from Toshiba lately, the more I hope they end up out of business, once and for all.
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
Pro-B
Somebody is going to have to explain the Toshiba hate to me. Solid company that makes great consumer products that had a failed format, they must be the spawn of Hitler.
When or where did they say they were trying to take on Blu with a new form of upscaling?
Last edited by RichC2; 06-01-08 at 12:48 AM.
06-01-08 | 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
They have every right to try and make a buck before the future of VOD arrives and potentially kills both formats (DVD and/or Blu-ray).
There is no way I will ever buy into VOD as a "sales" channel. As a replacement for rentals, sure. As a movie collection, no way. Hollywood studios are far, far too fickle for me to ever trust that the titles I "buy" on VOD will be mine forever.
So, if that is one of Toshiba's goals, to hasten the demise of physical media in favor of VOD, then that just further strengthens my hatred of them. May the organization die a painful, expensive corporate death.
06-01-08 | 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RichC2
Somebody is going to have to explain the Toshiba hate to me. Solid company that makes great consumer products that had a failed format, they must be the spawn of Hitler.
When or where did they say they were trying to take on Blu with a new form of upscaling?
Oh, and as for their products, well, let's just say that my good/bad ratio on the Toshiba products I've owned is considerably below 50%.
Last edited by RoboDad; 06-01-08 at 01:22 AM.
06-01-08 | 12:53 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by RoboDad
So, if that is one of Toshiba's goals, to hasten the demise of physical media in favor of VOD, then that just further strengthens my hatred of them. May the organization die a painful, expensive corporate death.
Great logic there.
Originally Posted by RoboDad
have they announced any plans for a Blu-ray player? Nope. But they have announced this "new" line of players that is clearly only designed to confuse potential Blu-ray customers, and steal sales. It's sour grapes. it's a bunch of poor losers. It's a dirty corporate trick. That is all the explanation you should need.
It sounds to me like they're just modifying their HD DVD Players into upscaling DVD Players. That's fantastic, they're excellent upscalers. But then there would be no conspiracy theories, and where's the fun in that?
And afterall, all those High Definition DVD Players that Upscale to 1080p are confusing the hell out of everybody. Why should anybody be trying to make money off whats easily the best selling movie format? Must be a dirty corporate trick.
Last edited by RichC2; 06-01-08 at 01:04 AM.
06-01-08 | 01:03 AM
#22
This was a hilarious bit of news. I'm planning on buying a PS3 as a Blu-Ray Player within a few weeks. There's no way this is going to stop me. I love my HD-DVD discs and from them I can tell that it is night and day between DVD's upconverted and actual High Definition. This is coming from someone with a HD-A2 1080i Player and a 27" 1080i HDTV. Why would anyone go for something less than true High Definition now that Blu-Ray has won? It's better all around for everyone.
06-01-08 | 01:05 AM
#23
DVD Talk Hero
$$$, Blu still costs entirely too much right now.
If they plan on releasing a $50 DVD Player that upscales really well, they may as well. DVD is still the best selling format out there, by far, and people still need players for it and may not be ready to drop $400 on a video player. Market isn't exactly the strongest right now.
If they plan on releasing a $50 DVD Player that upscales really well, they may as well. DVD is still the best selling format out there, by far, and people still need players for it and may not be ready to drop $400 on a video player. Market isn't exactly the strongest right now.
06-01-08 | 01:14 AM
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From: Blu-ray.com
Originally Posted by RichC2
Somebody is going to have to explain the Toshiba hate to me. Solid company that makes great consumer products that had a failed format, they must be the spawn of Hitler.
Originally Posted by RichC2
When or where did they say they were trying to take on Blu with a new form of upscaling?
Pro-B
06-01-08 | 01:19 AM
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From: Under a pile of unwatched dvds
Originally Posted by RoboDad
have they announced any plans for a Blu-ray player?
Oh, and as for there products, well, let's just say that my good/bad ratio on the Toshiba products I've owned is considerably below 50%.
Oh, and as for there products, well, let's just say that my good/bad ratio on the Toshiba products I've owned is considerably below 50%.