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Was Afghanistan a failure? (8.26.21 Kabul Bombing. US casualties)

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Was Afghanistan a failure? (8.26.21 Kabul Bombing. US casualties)

Old 08-12-21, 05:35 PM
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Was Afghanistan a failure? (8.26.21 Kabul Bombing. US casualties)

I can't believe no one is discussing this here. Seems like another Vietnam, was it 21yrs for nothing? The Taliban is soon going to totally overtake Kabul, along with the rest of the country.
Old 08-12-21, 07:10 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

An abject failure.

Wouldn't be surprised if the perpetrators of the next 9/11 come out of there.
Old 08-12-21, 07:32 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

It was a failure almost immediately.
Old 08-12-21, 07:36 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

It could be seen as "not a failure" if there was any evidence that groups that would have committed terrorist acts against the US homeland instead were busy fighting the US in Afghanistan.
Old 08-12-21, 08:29 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

It was a failure and I fear we will be back in there with boots on the ground at some point.
Old 08-12-21, 08:49 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Afghanistan is unconquerable because of the terrain. The senior US politicians that sent in the troops would have remembered that the failed war in Afghanistan had toppled the Soviet Union only a decade before. They stood off the whole USSR. We created the Taliban by arming the religious extremists so they could better fight the Soviets. We knew all that going in.

Now Afghans have been at war for two generations. If actual combat experience counts, they're experts. I hope the next American president doesn't rekindle the war. We won't win.

There must be powerful circumstances that are keeping US troops in Afghanistan. Getting the troops out was one of Trump's big goals, and he couldn't do it.

I heard a story on the radio a couple of weeks ago of how the US military is abandoning all the Afghans who helped them out as translators, guides, and so forth. There are tens of thousands of them. They and their families will probably all be killed by the new regime. Thanks for the help, gentlemen, now you're on your own.

Last edited by Nick Danger; 08-12-21 at 08:55 PM.
Old 08-12-21, 09:11 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

It was a failure the moment we invaded.

Here are images of Afghanistan from the 1960s, before the Soviets, Americans, and Taliban:

https://www.boredpanda.com/afghanist...ch-photography








Old 08-12-21, 09:21 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Well we had intel that the people responsible for the 9/11 attacks were hiding out in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban. What was the alternative in 2001/2002? Shrug and let them continue unabated?

I don't doubt for a second that it was doomed to end badly, and it felt like a never-ending military action (I wouldn't call it a "war", certainly nothing like Vietnam). And Iraq, which wasn't involved at all, was a total fuck-up of monumental proportions. But going into Afghanistan? Yeah that was the only move to make.
Old 08-12-21, 09:22 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

I don't wade into the political threads very often, but this is one I do feel strongly about. Shameful to admit, I was for the war in Afghanistan but over the years realize what a mistake it was. How much blood and money has been spent and for what? For those who think it's a mistake to leave, not necessary people here but on social media, I ask how much longer? What would another 5, 10, 15 years accomplish? Just a cluster-f from the start.

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
But going into Afghanistan? Yeah that was the only move to make.
I would agree but where they screwed up is thinking they could democratize the country, do the nation building, etc that sunk it.
Old 08-13-21, 06:33 AM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by TheMovieman View Post
I don't wade into the political threads very often, but this is one I do feel strongly about. Shameful to admit, I was for the war in Afghanistan but over the years realize what a mistake it was. How much blood and money has been spent and for what? For those who think it's a mistake to leave, not necessary people here but on social media, I ask how much longer? What would another 5, 10, 15 years accomplish? Just a cluster-f from the start.



I would agree but where they screwed up is thinking they could democratize the country, do the nation building, etc that sunk it.
Exactly. The mission should have been: find Bin Laden and/or punish those who harbored him, then leave.
Old 08-13-21, 06:39 AM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
Exactly. The mission should have been: find Bin Laden and/or punish those who harbored him, then leave.
I agree with this.

That being said, The Taliban will again harbor terrorists who want to harm US civilians. We will be back in there in some fashion at some point in the future.
Old 08-13-21, 07:24 AM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Well we had intel that the people responsible for the 9/11 attacks were hiding out in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban. What was the alternative in 2001/2002? Shrug and let them continue unabated?

I don't doubt for a second that it was doomed to end badly, and it felt like a never-ending military action (I wouldn't call it a "war", certainly nothing like Vietnam). And Iraq, which wasn't involved at all, was a total fuck-up of monumental proportions. But going into Afghanistan? Yeah that was the only move to make.
Intel, yeah. Intel from the same alphabet agencies that claimed that Hussein had WMDs. We can't just look at 9/11 (and the issue of Afghanistan) in vacuum. It was the culmination of the exploitation and manipulation of those countries for the benefit of the USSR and US. It was always a proxy war between the USSR and the US. When they were there, we funded and aided the resistance. When we were there, it was payback time.

We entered Afghanistan without ever having clearly defined objectives. What was the mission? What measurements will we use to determine if the mission has been completed? The response from the warhawks was, "well, if we say what those things are, they'll lay in wait until we withdraw, only to rise up again."


Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
Exactly. The mission should have been: find Bin Laden and/or punish those who harbored him, then leave.
Bingo. And that should've been our approach to Iraq as well.

There is a long history of US meddling and manipulation in the Middle East that created much of the terrorism that exists today. Our meddling in Iran resulted in the radical Islamic regime that is in power today. Afghanistan is just the latest shameful chapter.
Old 08-13-21, 08:48 AM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post

I heard a story on the radio a couple of weeks ago of how the US military is abandoning all the Afghans who helped them out as translators, guides, and so forth. There are tens of thousands of them. They and their families will probably all be killed by the new regime. Thanks for the help, gentlemen, now you're on your own.
False.

With the American military in the final phases of withdrawing from Afghanistan, the White House has come under pressure to protect Afghan allies and speed up the process of providing them with special immigrant visas, and President Biden has vowed to do so. There have been about 20,000 applicants for the special visa program.

This month, 2,500 Afghans will be sent in stages to an Army base in Fort Lee, Va., south of Richmond, where they will wait roughly 10 days for final processing. The next 4,000 applicants, who need further approvals, will go with their families to other countries to complete the visa process before coming to the United States, the senior official said.

Old 08-13-21, 09:10 AM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
I agree with this.

That being said, The Taliban will again harbor terrorists who want to harm US civilians. We will be back in there in some fashion at some point in the future.
If that's true, it would be cheaper in both lives and money to keep troops in Afghanistan, using up the resources of the Taliban, rather than give the Taliban the free time to export terrorists.

Originally Posted by covenant View Post
False.

With the American military in the final phases of withdrawing from Afghanistan, the White House has come under pressure to protect Afghan allies and speed up the process of providing them with special immigrant visas, and President Biden has vowed to do so. There have been about 20,000 applicants for the special visa program.

This month, 2,500 Afghans will be sent in stages to an Army base in Fort Lee, Va., south of Richmond, where they will wait roughly 10 days for final processing. The next 4,000 applicants, who need further approvals, will go with their families to other countries to complete the visa process before coming to the United States, the senior official said.
I hope it's false. The story said that these people were being abandoned in distant villages, and that they were told to make their way to Kabul through hostile territory to apply for visas.
Old 08-13-21, 10:16 AM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
I hope it's false. The story said that these people were being abandoned in distant villages, and that they were told to make their way to Kabul through hostile territory to apply for visas.
That may be true, but thatís not what you said before.
Old 08-13-21, 11:03 AM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
If that's true, it would be cheaper in both lives and money to keep troops in Afghanistan, using up the resources of the Taliban, rather than give the Taliban the free time to export terrorists.
It would be cheaper in lives to keep troops there forever, but not money. I think if the Taliban made a pledge not to attack US civilians or harbor terrorists and it was confirmed by intelligence that they were not doing that, we'd be good to go.
Old 08-13-21, 01:37 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

It was a bad idea from the start. Even from the beginning, I knew we had to have some kind of response to 9/11, but going into Afghanistan didn't feel right, even though I couldn't put my finger on why. As we learned more over the years, those suspicions were borne out.

I'm glad we're getting out, but the consequences will be dire. The only way I could see "fixing" that region is for somebody to completely take it over, but then you'd always have insurgents fighting back and it would be bloodshed for decades so, no, just leave them alone.

Old 08-13-21, 02:20 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by covenant View Post
...
This month, 2,500 Afghans will be sent in stages to an Army base in Fort Lee, Va., south of Richmond, where they will wait roughly 10 days for final processing...
My hometown abuts Fort Lee and is only marginally safer than Afghanistan these days from what I hear. Still, safer is safer, and they've got dang good barbecue at K&L.
Old 08-13-21, 02:27 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
Exactly. The mission should have been: find Bin Laden and/or punish those who harbored him, then leave.
That's what Obama did.

Used intelligence. Found out where he was. Took him out with a surgical strike.

Over and done with before anyone knew what happened.
Old 08-13-21, 02:51 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

It wasn't that fast.

Old 08-13-21, 06:08 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
Exactly. The mission should have been: find Bin Laden and/or punish those who harbored him, then leave.
I'm not going to pretend to be well educated on the subject, and this is now completely unacceptable 19th Century thinking, but if the USA is going to send troops and spend billions on the other side of the world to hold some country together for decades, then we might as well be colonizing the place and stop pretending they can ever run the place themselves.
Old 08-13-21, 06:46 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
I'm not going to pretend to be well educated on the subject, and this is now completely unacceptable 19th Century thinking, but if the USA is going to send troops and spend billions on the other side of the world to hold some country together for decades, then we might as well be colonizing the place and stop pretending they can ever run the place themselves.
Pax Britannica eventually went bankrupt with subsequent decolonization.

Will Pax Americana do better with colonization and never go bankrupt ?
Old 08-13-21, 07:24 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

It has been a failure ever since Bush Sr. tried to see the implementation of the New World Order during and after Operation Desert Storm.
Old 08-13-21, 08:34 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
Pax Britannica eventually went bankrupt with subsequent decolonization.

Will Pax Americana do better with colonization and never go bankrupt ?
Since the past does not necessarily predict the future, and neither of us can predict the future, much less a hypothetical one, I'll say the answer is yes.
Old 08-14-21, 04:12 PM
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Re: Was Afghanistan a failure?



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