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COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Old 05-16-21, 08:38 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
Regarding those who are unwilling to get vaccinated... it is NOT a matter of compassion for others to mask up around those willfully unvaccinated. In a real sense, it is condescending... thinking you (generic "you") know what's best for that person than they know for themselves. There are many out there that sincerely and seriously don't mind contracting covid-19.

That makes no sense to me but they have the right to make that decision for themselves. Some might respond that, "well those unvaccinated people can catch it and spread it to those who are vulnerable". That is a possibility but that is not the responsibility of those who are vaccinated and choose not to mask up.
Not wanting to make someone else ill is condescending?
Old 05-16-21, 09:31 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

We're getting there...


And more people are out and intermingling now more than ever.
So I find it weird when I hear people harping about another big wave this fall.
Old 05-16-21, 10:28 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Abbott tweeted this today

Old 05-16-21, 11:11 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
We're getting there...

So I find it weird when I hear people harping about another big wave this fall.
That 17K number is a bit misleading because it reflects the usual weekend dip. The weekly average is 31K, but we are on the right path, dropping 20-25% every week.

I think the comment about a wave later this year just means that next fall (or winter) is the best chance for the virus to mount a comeback: By that time we should be fully reopened, it's colder so people stay indoor more, there are more gatherings, and the virus has had more time to cook up some variants for which the current vaccines are not or less effective.

That doesn't mean it will happen, but it's very unlikely that we will have a surge this summer, and if we do it right, we should not have a Covid-19 surge in the US ever again. I hope we now turn our attention to beating it in the rest of the world.
Old 05-16-21, 11:26 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

How the Covid-19 pandemic could have turned out differently. Interview about a new book by Michael Lewis.

Old 05-16-21, 11:28 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

I listened to Lewis during a Bill Simmons podcast last year. He was very knowledgeable and very critical of the Administration's response at the time. I might pick this book up, as I really like most of his work.

Edit : The Kindle version is
$9.18 $9.18
and came with a $2.12 Kindle store credit. Sold.

Last edited by Decker; 05-16-21 at 11:38 PM.
Old 05-16-21, 11:47 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
I listened to Lewis during a Bill Simmons podcast last year. He was very knowledgeable and very critical of the Administration's response at the time. I might pick this book up, as I really like most of his work.

Edit : The Kindle version is $9.18 and came with a $2.12 Kindle store credit. Sold.
I will also get it.

There is another book I am looking forward to: Preventable: The Inside Story of How Leadership Failures, Politics, and Selfishness Doomed the U.S. Coronavirus Response by Andy Slavitt (
Amazon Amazon
).

It was supposed to be out in March, but Slavitt took a job with the Covid Task Force and had to delay publication. Now he'll have even more to write about.
Old 05-17-21, 12:33 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-canada-border

Canada might reopen the border and ease travel restrictions to vaccinated travelers. It’s not imminent though.

I believe right now you can only go for work like shooting TV and movies and you must quarantine two weeks.
Old 05-17-21, 12:39 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Stanley Cup Eastern Conference Finals are about a month away. They'll have to at least relax the rules a little by then.
Old 05-17-21, 05:02 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Here in NYC, it has been tough to get an appointment so I am still waiting for my 2nd shot. I am sure there are a lot of people like me that are still not fully vaccinated because of how hard it is to get an appointment. Most people are still wearing their mask outside, and almost all are wearing them in stores. I will continue to wear my mask until I see most people stop wearing them.
Old 05-17-21, 06:52 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-canada-border

Canada might reopen the border and ease travel restrictions to vaccinated travelers. Itís not imminent though.

I believe right now you can only go for work like shooting TV and movies and you must quarantine two weeks.
Yeah. They're not going to want to open up until most of our population is fully vaccinated. Maybe by the end of the summer.
Old 05-17-21, 07:41 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Jaymole View Post
Here in NYC, it has been tough to get an appointment so I am still waiting for my 2nd shot. I am sure there are a lot of people like me that are still not fully vaccinated because of how hard it is to get an appointment. Most people are still wearing their mask outside, and almost all are wearing them in stores. I will continue to wear my mask until I see most people stop wearing them.
To quote SNL, can't you just get shot on the subway? Rather, there are a lot of no-appointment sites right now for 12+, or are the lines crazy for those things? https://www1.nyc.gov/site/coronaviru...#walk-up-sites (I only follow this stuff because my sister lives up there)

Last edited by RichC2; 05-17-21 at 08:26 AM.
Old 05-17-21, 08:11 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
What about children, or those who can't vaccinate due to other medical conditions?

I'm not saying you need to stay masked for their sake, I'm just pointing out that the situation is more complicated than "responsible people are vaccinated, irresponsible people are not."
It is understood that I was referring to adults, not to children or those (~1% of the 30-40%) who can't vaccinate due to medical conditions. Children 12 to 18 can be fully vaccinated now. Children under 12 are a small COVID risk, and have an even smaller COVID incidence compared to the adult population. They're more likely to pick up the flu, common cold, measles, chicken pox (from NOT being vaccinated) and other things that children spread among thier peer groups rather than COVID.
Old 05-17-21, 08:25 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

I find it interesting, but not surprising, that many of the people who were all about "follow the experts, listen to the CDC... they said wear a mask, so wear a mask." early on in the pandemic are now "I don't care what the CDC says, I'm going to keep wearing my mask". This mask-wearing virtue signaling is the flipside of the muh freedumb anti-maskers coin. It's human nature.
Old 05-17-21, 08:43 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I find it interesting, but not surprising, that many of the people who were all about "follow the experts, listen to the CDC... they said wear a mask, so wear a mask." early on in the pandemic are now "I don't care what the CDC says, I'm going to keep wearing my mask". This mask-wearing virtue signaling is the flipside of the muh freedumb anti-maskers coin. It's human nature.
That feels a little harsh. We've talked here before about how psychology is one of the sciences at play for how people respond to the virus, not it's more than the biological science of what's going on.

I get the sense that for many people, the announcement came from out of nowhere. In our state our governor set out a vaccine rate benchmark or particular date this summer, whichever came first. It was a countdown with action items. That can work well for a lot of people. Then a week later, boom, CDC says take 'em off. Uphill battle with a divided state now, so mask mandate dropped. Instant scramble for people, cities, businesses, and so on.

Another factor is the lying. Or at least, the concern it is there. The concern is there are people who have had no intention of being vaccinated all along who are quite glad to lie about whether they are so they can walk around without a mask. For some, that is incredibly hard to be forced to deal with now, and even though the mask does more to protect others than yourself, it is something - no matter how small - for people.

And finally there's a desire to keep the unvaccinated safe. I land there, and I will likely mask up indoors more often than not for the next few months. My kids are too young. We aren't taking them anywhere. I'm going barely anywhere. I mask up when I do. We did not work hard for over a year to avoid this virus only to have them get it so close to their vaccines (hopefully this fall, according to our pediatrician). THAT would be ridiculous, not whether I wear a mask.
Old 05-17-21, 09:04 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Multiple people have explained why they plan to mask under some circumstances, all of which boil down to concern for the unvaccinated. If your takeaway from that is ďHa, these dummies donít get SCIENCE, just like Covid deniers!Ē I donít know what to say.
Old 05-17-21, 09:06 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by story View Post
That feels a little harsh. We've talked here before about how psychology is one of the sciences at play for how people respond to the virus, not it's more than the biological science of what's going on.

I get the sense that for many people, the announcement came from out of nowhere. In our state our governor set out a vaccine rate benchmark or particular date this summer, whichever came first. It was a countdown with action items. That can work well for a lot of people. Then a week later, boom, CDC says take 'em off. Uphill battle with a divided state now, so mask mandate dropped. Instant scramble for people, cities, businesses, and so on.

Another factor is the lying. Or at least, the concern it is there. The concern is there are people who have had no intention of being vaccinated all along who are quite glad to lie about whether they are so they can walk around without a mask. For some, that is incredibly hard to be forced to deal with now, and even though the mask does more to protect others than yourself, it is something - no matter how small - for people.

And finally there's a desire to keep the unvaccinated safe. I land there, and I will likely mask up indoors more often than not for the next few months. My kids are too young. We aren't taking them anywhere. I'm going barely anywhere. I mask up when I do. We did not work hard for over a year to avoid this virus only to have them get it so close to their vaccines (hopefully this fall, according to our pediatrician). THAT would be ridiculous, not whether I wear a mask.
Anyone who is continuing to take the virus seriously but cannot be vaccinated can continue to wear a mask. They can continue to partake in social distancing. As restaurants and movie theaters open up to full capacity, no one is going to force those people to visit those establishments.

For those who are vaccinated and are still concerned about contracting it, they can continue to wear a mask. Pro-covid people haven't worn masks throughout this thing and will continue to do so.

In trying to figure out why my view is quite different than many, I think it comes down to the communities where we live. Here in AZ it was literally the wild west and everyone had to take responsibility for how they wanted to deal with the virus. My wife and I decided to take reasonable precautions. That was in contrast to the rest of the community that was overwhelmingly, "muh freedumb" people.

If a person lives in a community where the local government was more hands-on and restrictive, then I can see how they would be more skittish as restrictions are lifted. There were fewer opportunities for individuals to exercise judgment and make decisions during that time. Those were made for them by state and/or local government.

Regarding who is protected by mask wearing, my first-hand experience is that mask-wearing definitely protects the mask wearer. My wife and I masked up on day-1 and here in our community, we were usually the only ones wearing masks where masks weren't required. Over the last 12 months we've been in close contact with about 200 people each week (less than 4 of those would be wearing a mask). Almost 2/3 of them contracted covid during that time. We weren't infected. We vaxxed up in February and we're starting to re-engage in some activities that we weren't able to during the pandemic.

Old 05-17-21, 09:07 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by story View Post
That feels a little harsh. We've talked here before about how psychology is one of the sciences at play for how people respond to the virus, not it's more than the biological science of what's going on.

I get the sense that for many people, the announcement came from out of nowhere. In our state our governor set out a vaccine rate benchmark or particular date this summer, whichever came first. It was a countdown with action items. That can work well for a lot of people. Then a week later, boom, CDC says take 'em off. Uphill battle with a divided state now, so mask mandate dropped. Instant scramble for people, cities, businesses, and so on.

Another factor is the lying. Or at least, the concern it is there. The concern is there are people who have had no intention of being vaccinated all along who are quite glad to lie about whether they are so they can walk around without a mask. For some, that is incredibly hard to be forced to deal with now, and even though the mask does more to protect others than yourself, it is something - no matter how small - for people.

And finally there's a desire to keep the unvaccinated safe. I land there, and I will likely mask up indoors more often than not for the next few months. My kids are too young. We aren't taking them anywhere. I'm going barely anywhere. I mask up when I do. We did not work hard for over a year to avoid this virus only to have them get it so close to their vaccines (hopefully this fall, according to our pediatrician). THAT would be ridiculous, not whether I wear a mask.
I think your intentions are admirable and you should do what you feel is best.

My personal opinion (at least in my state) is that there are multiple places to receive a vaccine where I live. Nobody wants it anymore. CVS and Publix are taking walk ups and there's barely anyone wanting the vaccine. If I, a vaccinated person, give Covid asymptomatically to a non mask wearer who doesn't want to get the vaccine...that's not on me. That's on their poor choices. I'm done with helping people who are willfully ignorant.
Old 05-17-21, 09:10 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

^ I feel like there should be a little more time given with that mentality.

Florida went all ages on Easter, which is when I got my first shot, I got my second shot 3 weeks later and it just hit 2 weeks for what they consider "full effectiveness." a few days ago.

People that got Moderna on Day 1 of all ages still are hitting full protection this week.

Arguing that you still get strong protection from a single shot of any of the vaccines would be an acceptable argument, though.
Old 05-17-21, 09:12 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
^ I feel like there should be a little more time given with that mentality.

Florida went all ages on Easter, which is when I got my first shot, I got my second shot 3 weeks later and it just hit 2 weeks for what they consider "full effectiveness." a few days ago.

People that got Moderna on Day 1 of all ages still are hitting full protection this week.

Arguing that you still get strong protection from a single shot of any of the vaccines would be an acceptable argument, though.
Fair enough, but demand is way down right now. Would you agree with my position by mid summer?
Old 05-17-21, 09:13 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by vinvega View Post
fair enough, but demand is way down right now. Would you agree with my position by mid summer?
100%
Old 05-17-21, 09:45 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

My office just lifted mask mandates. It's optional now. Just saw a bunch of people taking their masks off.
Old 05-17-21, 10:26 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

This is not true of everyone but I find it ironic that a lot of people who after last year stopped listening to the CDC or complained that they were too cautious are now complaining that they moved too fast. The CDC just can't win.

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
Anyone who is continuing to take the virus seriously but cannot be vaccinated can continue to wear a mask. They can continue to partake in social distancing. As restaurants and movie theaters open up to full capacity, no one is going to force those people to visit those establishments.

For those who are vaccinated and are still concerned about contracting it, they can continue to wear a mask. Pro-covid people haven't worn masks throughout this thing and will continue to do so.
Agree. I see 2 groups who cannot get vaccinated even if they want to:
- Children under 12. We just opened the window to 12-15 and some people are saying, let's give them 1-2 months to get vaccinated before we relax the rules. But I am sure that in a few months we will expand vaccination age to below 12. What then, wait again until they get vaccinated?

- People with a medical condition such as cancer or transplant. They likely will still have that condition 6 months, a year from now and probably for the rest of their lives.

As heartless as it seems I see no realistic or practical way to hold back 95% of society to protect the 5% from Covid. Those 5% will have to do what they have to do to protect themselves, and they probably have already even before the pandemic. Even if the CDC had kept their masking and distancing recommendation, there will be some who don't listen, and by July a lot who won't listen because they are sick and tired of it.

In my opinion the progress we have made in this pandemic is unstoppable. The CDC announcement may cause some discomfort initially, but it will not cause another surge. A month from now we'll look back and probably not notice a thing.
Old 05-17-21, 10:34 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Yeah, the hope was to make sure there were fewer ways for it to spread to them which is the mentality for herd immunity. This wouldn't be an issue if every one that could get the vaccine got it, but obviously they can't be forced and looking out for other people "isn't their problem."

They actually do recommend most cancer and transplant patients get the vaccines, though they don't think it's as effective in immunosupressed individuals (duh).


Old 05-17-21, 10:35 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread


Target has lifted the mask mandate for vaccinated shoppers.

But again it doesn’t mean it’s effective everywhere. It depends on your local government and health agencies.

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