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COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Old 05-15-21, 08:10 PM
  #12526  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

I'll probably continue to wear one whenever I'm in crowds, at least for the foreseeable future. I have 3 nieces and nephews who are too young to be vaccinated; I want to minimize my chance of giving them COVID.
Old 05-15-21, 09:40 PM
  #12527  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I'll probably continue to wear one whenever I'm in crowds, at least for the foreseeable future. I have 3 nieces and nephews who are too young to be vaccinated; I want to minimize my chance of giving them COVID.
I can go either way on masks -- I'd wear one in the presence of people who have not received vaccination because they cannot. I don't see mask wearing as a huge burden or sacrifice.

What I would like to go back to pre-pandemic condition is the social interactions -- meeting people, going to places, doing the usual activities in everyday life. If I have to wear a mask while doing that, no problem, but I want to go back to "normal" life.
Old 05-15-21, 11:11 PM
  #12528  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
I can go either way on masks -- I'd wear one in the presence of people who have not received vaccination because they cannot. I don't see mask wearing as a huge burden or sacrifice.

What I would like to go back to pre-pandemic condition is the social interactions -- meeting people, going to places, doing the usual activities in everyday life. If I have to wear a mask while doing that, no problem, but I want to go back to "normal" life.
Iím really struggling with this - the reason the CDC says they dropped this mandate is because the vaccine is very effective and even if you have the virus itís in such a low amount that you arenít going to get anyone sick. And a mask is primarily to protect others from you.

I understand wearing one if you arenít vaccinated but Iím never going to wear this thing again if I donít have to. Especially since I got the vaccine as soon as I could, which was supposed to be the thing that ďfixedĒ this.


Old 05-16-21, 12:03 AM
  #12529  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
I think the only time Iíve ever been nervous on a plane was when an engine went out 30 minutes out of Dallas and the pilots had to turn around and take us back, but your comments about risk are spot on and 100% correct. The human brain is simply not able to intuitively access risk with precision and accuracy, and we often fail even when we make a concerted effort.
Flying on airplane is a special case when it comes to risk assessment, I think.

I suspect that a lot of the fear of flying comes down to a lack of control. When you're a passenger on a plane, you're held captive for the entire flight and have to put 100% trust in a couple of pilots you've never met. And, on top of that, if something goes wrong with the plane while it's twenty-thousand feet in the air -- mechanical failure, a bomb going off, a gremlin on the wing -- you're fucked.

You can explain the statistics and cold, hard figures about how flying is safer than driving to people until you're blue in the face, but they're still afraid to get on that plane.

Old 05-16-21, 01:38 AM
  #12530  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Iím really struggling with this - the reason the CDC says they dropped this mandate is because the vaccine is very effective and even if you have the virus itís in such a low amount that you arenít going to get anyone sick. And a mask is primarily to protect others from you.
I don't believe the bolded part is true. My understanding is people who have been vaccinated can still get the virus (though they are less likely to do so); if they get it, they are much more likely to be asymptomatic, but they are still able to transmit it to others.
Old 05-16-21, 01:48 AM
  #12531  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I don't believe the bolded part is true. My understanding is people who have been vaccinated can still get the virus (though they are less likely to do so); if they get it, they are much more likely to be asymptomatic, but they are still able to transmit it to others.
Iím going off the variations Iíve seen of this:

She cited three studies -- one from Israel and two from the United States -- that show vaccines work.

The Israeli study, which was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, showed the vaccine was 97% effective against symptomatic Covid-19 and 86% effective against asymptomatic infection in over 5,000 health care workers.

There have been reports of "breakthrough" infections among vaccinated people in the United States -- a small number among more than 117 million people in the United States who are now fully vaccinated. Walensky noted that "the resulting infection is more likely to have a lower viral load, may be shorter in duration, and likely less risk of transmission to others."

Last edited by Draven; 05-16-21 at 01:55 AM.
Old 05-16-21, 02:25 AM
  #12532  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Iím going off the variations Iíve seen of this:
In the cost-benefit analysis, you're focused entirely on the low benefit of Jason continuing to wear a mask and ignoring what I presume is the low cost of continuing to wear a mask. I will probably continue wearing a mask in public at least until vaccination rates are up near 70-80%. I don't mind wearing it. It's low cost, so even if I'm not getting much benefit out of it, I'm not really losing anything through the effort.
Old 05-16-21, 05:38 AM
  #12533  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
As I have probably said a dozen times in this thread, people in general lack the ability to accurately access risk. It's something I've had to deal with my entire professional life. It's true of pretty much everybody, to some degree. Nobody gets more nervous driving home from the airport during a rainstorm than they do getting on a plane, though based on statistics, they probably should.
Hell, I get more nervous driving *anywhere* for any duration in California's ridiculous traffic, than I ever do when boarding a plane! While I was driving the 60-mile roundtrip, twice, in order to become fully vaccinated, you'd better believe that I did it gladly, for I knew that, even taking that risk, it seemed very minimal compared to possibly catching COVID while remaining unvaccinated...

Actually, I honestly don't know the risk of dying from 120 miles of driving in heavy traffic vs. dying from COVID, but I *think* my risk assessment was still accurate!
Old 05-16-21, 08:42 AM
  #12534  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I’m really struggling with this - the reason the CDC says they dropped this mandate is because the vaccine is very effective and even if you have the virus it’s in such a low amount that you aren’t going to get anyone sick. And a mask is primarily to protect others from you.

I understand wearing one if you aren’t vaccinated but I’m never going to wear this thing again if I don’t have to. Especially since I got the vaccine as soon as I could, which was supposed to be the thing that “fixed” this.
When you are vaccinated the risk is lower that you carry the virus, and if/when you do, the risk is lower that you transmit to others (shorter infectious period and much smaller viral load). You are not going to be a superspreader that we have heard so much about. That's because the virus cannot multiply aggressively inside you.

But during that unlikely infectious period, what if you meet someone?
- If that person is also vaccinated, the risk is negligible to them because they can also fight back, and the viral load you shed is small.
- If that person is not vaccinated, it helps that you don't spew out a lot of virus, but their ability to fight back is unchanged.

So how do I decide? For me:
- If I am in a crowd of strangers and there is a chance that 1/3 to 1/2 of them are not vaccinated, I will not go out of my way to wear a mask after 2-3 weeks. The reason for that wait is that I know people who wanted to but could not get vaccinated until recently.
- If I am in the presence of someone I know who couldn't get vaccinated for a "valid" reason (a medical condition for example) then I would wear a mask, or take a rapid test to be sure I am not infectious. I don't want to hurt them.

I understand that to some wearing a mask is a pain and I don't "judge" people who don't like I used to.

Last edited by Psi; 05-16-21 at 08:55 AM.
Old 05-16-21, 09:18 AM
  #12535  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Here is a view by Dr. Ashish Jha, Dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. I feel the same way.

A lot of folks wondering since I'm fully vaccinated, why would I wear a mask at a grocery store? Every action we take is a weighing of costs and benefits​.​ So let​'​s talk about fully-vaccinated me in a grocery store​.​

Am I a risk to others? No​.​ Am I at risk? Not much​.​

Here's my personal practice for now:
​- ​Continue indoor masking in public places like grocery stores until more are vaccinated, infection numbers are down ​
- ​Gather with small groups of fully vaccinated folks indoors, no mask. Because data clear that's pretty safe


So what​'​s the risk to me? Right now, infection numbers still high in MA, although falling​.​ And if grocery store has lots of unvaxed, unmasked folks, I have a tiny risk of picking it up Tiny​.​ But cost of masking up is also tiny​.​ But that's not the real reason​.

There are lots of folks who want to be but are not yet fully vaccinated​.​ My wife for instance​.​ She got her first shot right after she became eligible​.​ She's close but not fully vaccinated. There are lots of folks like her

And by masking up, I help create a norm in society​.​ That norm says that while folks are still getting vaccinated, infection numbers are high, let​'​s protect each other in higher risk situations​.​

Do I have to? Nope​.​ I'm safe so what do I care? ​But I do care about creating an expectation that we protect vulnerable people​. We get to choose what kind of community we create​.​ You can think narrowly about your personal interest ​o​r you can think about your community norms​.​ If my masking up for now creates a norm where others mask up and we protect those still getting vaccinated? That feels easy.
Old 05-16-21, 09:22 AM
  #12536  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by ben12 View Post
In the cost-benefit analysis, you're focused entirely on the low benefit of Jason continuing to wear a mask and ignoring what I presume is the low cost of continuing to wear a mask.
Maybe, yet the mask has become so iconic since Part III that I just can't see them going back to the one-eyed burlap sack of Part II without confusing most audiences at this point.
Old 05-16-21, 09:27 AM
  #12537  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Old 05-16-21, 09:44 AM
  #12538  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

I started a new job three weeks ago and, being fully vaccinated, decided to work from the office for at least the first several months. Itís a small company and everyone else there is vaccinated, so I donít wear a mask in our offices, but one is still required when in common areas of the building. The only time itís bothered me was when someone was dropping ass in the menís room while I was in there. Something about wearing a mask makes the smell seem 10x more oppressive.

Iíve also stopped wearing a mask at small gatherings of friends and family, but still wear one if I go into a store or other business with a lot of people. Honestly, Iíd have no problem using them in that way forever, but am sure there will be crazy societal pressure to drop them soon and I wonít bother if no one else is taking any precautions.

Originally Posted by story View Post
Maybe, yet the mask has become so iconic since Part III that I just can't see them going back to the one-eyed burlap sack of Part II without confusing most audiences at this point.
Superbly played.
Old 05-16-21, 09:59 AM
  #12539  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

While masked in public I will possibly just wear a tee-shirt with a picture on it of an assault rifle and the phrase 'ask me about my mask'. Seems to work for pro 2A folks!
Old 05-16-21, 10:08 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Iím not going to harp on this mask stuff as I can really see the different sides, but I donít think weíre going to get to 70% vaxxed - too many people will choose not to. So thatís why Iím not going to wear a mask when itís not required - because it means Iíll be wearing it indefinitely while those who choose not to get vaxxed walk around without one.
Old 05-16-21, 10:58 AM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Rick Schroder is a fucking piece of shit. He posted this video giving the CA Costco employee a hard time and demanding a refund on his membership because they haven't lifted the mask mandate. Corporate lifted it, but it depends on state and local governments on lifting it.


And of course this is the same shithead who posted the bail for killer Kyle Rittenhouse.


Last edited by DJariya; 05-16-21 at 11:05 AM.
Old 05-16-21, 11:22 AM
  #12542  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

And like an asshole, he's wearing a blue-lives hat as well.
Old 05-16-21, 12:42 PM
  #12543  
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
(Costco). Corporate lifted it, but it depends on state and local governments on lifting it.
I was at Costco (in TX) today. They have started the no-mask policy, but I saw only 2-3 people without masks in the 2 hours I was there. No signs about mask wearing, Employees had masks on.
Old 05-16-21, 01:20 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
I was at Costco (in TX) today. They have started the no-mask policy, but I saw only 2-3 people without masks in the 2 hours I was there. No signs about mask wearing, Employees had masks on.
I've kinda decided to keep wearing one until employees start getting rid of them. I don't know why really but it seems like the right thing to do. Weird logic on my behalf.
Old 05-16-21, 01:35 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
I've kinda decided to keep wearing one until employees start getting rid of them. I don't know why really but it seems like the right thing to do. Weird logic on my behalf.
Being compassionate to front-line workers is the best kind of weird logic!
Old 05-16-21, 03:31 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Iím not going to harp on this mask stuff as I can really see the different sides, but I donít think weíre going to get to 70% vaxxed - too many people will choose not to. So thatís why Iím not going to wear a mask when itís not required - because it means Iíll be wearing it indefinitely while those who choose not to get vaxxed walk around without one.
Exactly! I say, fuck the 30%- 40% (?) who voluntarily choose not to be vaccinated. I've been "nice" long enough for the last 15 months by wearing a mask. I'm tired of it. So, I show no sympathy toward those people who, by not vaccinating, will keep COVID endemic forever. There comes a point when one's compassion toward others burns out, and those people wouldn't have changed anyway, so I'm done trying to see their warped perspectives. So, unless I'm in an uncontrollable situation in a lage crowd (unlikely), I'll not be wearing a mask unless it's firmly required by the vendor / business / venue (which will provide me less motivation to go to those places, anyway).

I'm ready to move back to "normal", especially as the hot summer approaches.
Old 05-16-21, 03:47 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
Exactly! I say, fuck the 30%- 40% (?) who voluntarily choose not to be vaccinated. I've been "nice" long enough for the last 15 months by wearing a mask. I'm tired of it. So, I show no sympathy toward those people who, by not vaccinating, will keep COVID endemic forever. There comes a point when one's compassion toward others burns out, and those people wouldn't have changed anyway, so I'm done trying to see their warped perspectives. So, unless I'm in an uncontrollable situation in a lage crowd (unlikely), I'll not be wearing a mask unless it's firmly required by the vendor / business / venue (which will provide me less motivation to go to those places, anyway).

I'm ready to move back to "normal", especially as the hot summer approaches.
What about children, or those who can't vaccinate due to other medical conditions?

I'm not saying you need to stay masked for their sake, I'm just pointing out that the situation is more complicated than "responsible people are vaccinated, irresponsible people are not."
Old 05-16-21, 04:05 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Flying on airplane is a special case when it comes to risk assessment, I think.

I suspect that a lot of the fear of flying comes down to a lack of control. When you're a passenger on a plane, you're held captive for the entire flight and have to put 100% trust in a couple of pilots you've never met. And, on top of that, if something goes wrong with the plane while it's twenty-thousand feet in the air -- mechanical failure, a bomb going off, a gremlin on the wing -- you're fucked.

You can explain the statistics and cold, hard figures about how flying is safer than driving to people until you're blue in the face, but they're still afraid to get on that plane.
Dennis Miller (when he was funny) had a great explanation of fear of flying vs. fear of driving. "Sure you're more likely to get into a car accident than a plane crash, but I don't see too many people getting out of a plane crash to exchange insurance information."
Old 05-16-21, 04:58 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
Exactly! I say, fuck the 30%- 40% (?) who voluntarily choose not to be vaccinated. I've been "nice" long enough for the last 15 months by wearing a mask. I'm tired of it. So, I show no sympathy toward those people who, by not vaccinating, will keep COVID endemic forever. There comes a point when one's compassion toward others burns out, and those people wouldn't have changed anyway, so I'm done trying to see their warped perspectives. So, unless I'm in an uncontrollable situation in a lage crowd (unlikely), I'll not be wearing a mask unless it's firmly required by the vendor / business / venue (which will provide me less motivation to go to those places, anyway).

I'm ready to move back to "normal", especially as the hot summer approaches.
Regarding those who are unwilling to get vaccinated... it is NOT a matter of compassion for others to mask up around those willfully unvaccinated. In a real sense, it is condescending... thinking you (generic "you") know what's best for that person than they know for themselves. There are many out there that sincerely and seriously don't mind contracting covid-19.

That makes no sense to me but they have the right to make that decision for themselves. Some might respond that, "well those unvaccinated people can catch it and spread it to those who are vulnerable". That is a possibility but that is not the responsibility of those who are vaccinated and choose not to mask up.

Old 05-16-21, 07:13 PM
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Re: COVID-19 POLITICAL Thread

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I don't believe the bolded part is true. My understanding is people who have been vaccinated can still get the virus (though they are less likely to do so); if they get it, they are much more likely to be asymptomatic, but they are still able to transmit it to others.
Yeah, I think it's a little early to lift the mask mandate. People are still getting vaccinated.

I also don't think we know enough about how the vaccines work. We're hearing reports about vaccinated people testing positive (like the outbreak among the New York Yankees), and I don't think we've had enough to time to fully study the transmission between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. It is currently believed that even if vaccinated people become infected and don't show symptoms that they either can't transmit the virus to others, or it's unlikely to infect others, but that could change with the next study.

I'd keep the mask mandate for a few more months, at least, and give more time for the vaccine stragglers to get their shots. Maybe July 4 would have been a good target date. Or two months after "walk-in" vaccinations become available. Wearing a mask in public is the most minor of inconveniences, and I think it's better to be safe than sorry.

I still haven't gotten my vaccines yet. It's a real pain in the ass where I live; they go in and out of stock so quickly it's like playing whack-a-mole. I signed up for the Moderna, and the closest available date I could get was a month away, so I took the reservation, and then they cancelled my appointment for some unknown reason and told me to make a new one.

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