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Has Trump done ANY good?

Old 09-01-19, 03:19 PM
  #26  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

I see the question: "Has Trump done any good?" in stark terms of cause-and-effect.

If anyone wants to claim that Trump has been the cause of something good or positive for the US or the world, I want to know specifically what that good thing is, and what specific intentional act that Donald Trump undertook to create that effect.

Trump likes to claim that the tax cuts passed at the end of his first year in office have juiced the economy resulting in increased stock value and low unemployment, but I have never seen anyone explain in concrete terms how the tax cuts directly had a positive effect on the economy, rather than the positive economic factors merely being a continuation of the economic upturn that had been taking place for years since the 2008 crash.
Someone could say that the tax cuts put more money in the pockets of wealthy people. Well, that's a "good" thing for them, but is it a good thing?

Similarly, telling me he signed a "good" bill into law just tells me that he was sitting in his office when a piece of paper was put in front of him. If he was the cause, then tell me what he specifically did to initiate and help that law get passed in the Congress.

Someone said he wants to rein in China. Okay, let me know when he has accomplished that, and then how we are certain the result is a good thing. Same thing with "initiating a conversation."
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Old 09-01-19, 03:33 PM
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Him, along with the rest of the terrible G.O.P., taught me the lesson of voting in every single damn election for the rest of my life.
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Old 09-01-19, 03:40 PM
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Trump has successfully debunked the myth that we live in a post-racial society, boosted the ratings of late-night comedy shows, and probably increased the subscriber bases of the New York Times and Washington Post.
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Old 09-01-19, 04:29 PM
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

He's proven that the Electoral College is full of shit. The electors are bought and paid for by their respective political parties.
No elector in their right fucking mind would have cast their vote for an incompetent lunatic.
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Old 09-01-19, 04:34 PM
  #30  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
Before I give him credit, I'd like to know why the bill wasn't passed before... what changed politically to allow this to happen and is there anything in the bill that is detrimental? ie. eliminating mandatory minimums is a positive, what were the negatives?
The risk of reduced sentencing or early release is that a defendant could commit an atrocious crime upon release, and rightly or wrongly you could get blamed for the decision. And if you are a politician, an opponent could do a Willie Horton on you. At the least they could call you "soft on crime." Why did Trump sign that law? I don't know. Maybe he was planning for his future.

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Someone said he wants to rein in China. Okay, let me know when he has accomplished that, and then how we are certain the result is a good thing. Same thing with "initiating a conversation."
The China problem has been neglected for a long time. Trump is not just talking about it, but taking action. While I don't agree with everything he does with tariffs, at least he is giving this issue attention. It may not be apparent to all, but China is certainly feeling an impact. This issue will take time to deal with. I don't know what results you expect or know about.
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Old 09-01-19, 07:20 PM
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
The China problem has been neglected for a long time. Trump is not just talking about it, but taking action. While I don't agree with everything he does with tariffs, at least he is giving this issue attention. It may not be apparent to all, but China is certainly feeling an impact. This issue will take time to deal with.
As I explained, and you ignored, I consider the concept of "doing something good" as causing a positive outcome. Talk and attention are not outcomes.

I don't know what results you expect or know about.
My personal expectations are beside the point. The results must be objectively good results for the US. Since there are no results yet, the question is moot.
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Old 09-01-19, 07:29 PM
  #32  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

The types of tangible outcomes you are asking to see are seldom found in politics, or only recognized in hindsight.
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Old 09-01-19, 08:07 PM
  #33  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by PatD View Post
Trump has beta-tested the U.S. Constitution by showing all the loopholes and weaknesses residing in the over 200 year old document--by his ability to get away with every criminal act he's committed.
Is anything good going to come out of it? After Watergate, a lot of reforms were passed into law. Right now, I don't see even a trial balloon about Congress reining in executive orders, pardons, or emergency powers. Trump is running the Oval Office on a for-profit basis, and millionaire congressmen aren't saying a thing.
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Old 09-01-19, 08:09 PM
  #34  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

According to his supporters posting in the main Trump thread there are two:
  1. He’s not an alcoholic
  2. But my 401K
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Old 09-01-19, 08:19 PM
  #35  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by PatD View Post
Trump has beta-tested the U.S. Constitution by showing all the loopholes and weaknesses residing in the over 200 year old document--by his ability to get away with every criminal act he's committed.
I don't think he's using loopholes as much as he's showing, on the largest scale possible, that enforcement of laws is at the discretion of the enforcers.
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Old 09-01-19, 08:38 PM
  #36  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
As I explained, and you ignored, I consider the concept of "doing something good" as causing a positive outcome. Talk and attention are not outcomes.

My personal expectations are beside the point. The results must be objectively good results for the US. Since there are no results yet, the question is moot.
I wrote above that Trump is paying a lot of attention (by his standards) to China AND taking actions, probably more than any American President since Nixon. You don't seem to know what they are or their results. That's not my problem. I asked about what you expected because I thought that you knew about what was happening but wanted to see more, but clearly that was not the case.

Last edited by Psi; 09-01-19 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 09-01-19, 09:19 PM
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
I wrote above that Trump is paying a lot of attention (by his standards) to China AND taking actions, probably more than any American President since Nixon. You don't seem to know what they are or their results. That's not my problem. I asked about what you expected because I thought that you knew about what was happening but wanted to see more, but clearly that was not the case.
According to Trump we are in an ongoing trade war with China, and even though he has promised a quick resolution, any resolution would be the result of future negotiations.

Is this the situation you are referencing?
There is no result (good or bad) to this situation, as it is not yet resolved.

As I said any person's expectations are irrelevant to the topic of the thread since it is about Trump accomplishing something good. Whether I expect him to do anything good or not is immaterial.
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Old 09-01-19, 09:21 PM
  #38  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
The types of tangible outcomes you are asking to see are seldom found in politics, or only recognized in hindsight.
Then it should be very easy to identify anything good that Trump has done because those outcomes would stand out like mountains in the Sahara.
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Old 09-01-19, 10:11 PM
  #39  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Then it should be very easy to identify anything good that Trump has done because those outcomes would stand out like mountains in the Sahara.
What?

It’s okay, I’m drunk right now too.
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Old 09-01-19, 10:18 PM
  #40  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

As someone who supported Obamacare, Lilly Ledbetter, DACA, the 2009 stimulus, and the reversal of the federal government's position on gay marriage from day one, the idea that we can only figure out accomplishments years down the road is pure bullshit.

The EO on bump stocks was a good thing. It was, to my mind, the least he could have done, but at least he did something.

The First Step Act was also a good thing, though I don't think that was a White House driven piece of legislation. Yes, he signed it, and I suppose he gets credit for that, but I don't think he was sending his people to whip for it the way Obama sent his people to whip for the legislative proposals I mentioned above.
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Old 09-01-19, 10:23 PM
  #41  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
As someone who supported Obamacare, Lilly Ledbetter, DACA, the 2009 stimulus, and the reversal of the federal government's position on gay marriage from day one, the idea that we can only figure out accomplishments years down the road is pure bullshit.

The EO on bump stocks was a good thing. It was, to my mind, the least he could have done, but at least he did something.

The First Step Act was also a good thing, though I don't think that was a White House driven piece of legislation. Yes, he signed it, and I suppose he gets credit for that, but I don't think he was sending his people to whip for it the way Obama sent his people to whip for the legislative proposals I mentioned above.
You make it sound like governing is hard. All Trump told us is how easy everything would be.
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Old 09-01-19, 11:37 PM
  #42  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
According to Trump we are in an ongoing trade war with China, and even though he has promised a quick resolution, any resolution would be the result of future negotiations.

Is this the situation you are referencing?
There is no result (good or bad) to this situation, as it is not yet resolved.

As I said any person's expectations are irrelevant to the topic of the thread since it is about Trump accomplishing something good. Whether I expect him to do anything good or not is immaterial.
Trump has done many things about China. That hasn't led to total economic victory for the US or total surrender by the Chinese like Trump promised, but that's because Trump almost always underestimates difficulties or the fact that the other side can fight back. He thinks he can wipe out ISIS by bombing the shit out of them, or buy Greenland by saying so, or win trade wars with only the threat of tariffs.

It hasn't happened like that, but still, he's done a lot and there are a lot of serious consequences, good and bad, on both sides of the ocean. It's tempting to dismiss him because he is a lazy and stupid bastard, but for whatever reason he did do a lot regarding China. You don't seem to have much visibility but think it should be as obvious as a mountain in the desert. It's not.
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Old 09-02-19, 05:35 AM
  #43  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Since the election I became informed in politics and follow the news daily.
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Old 09-02-19, 05:47 AM
  #44  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

I suppose if one were a white supremacist or neo-nazi, he's managed to mainstream and legitimize what were once considered fringe beliefs.
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Old 09-02-19, 07:22 AM
  #45  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
I wrote above that Trump is paying a lot of attention (by his standards) to China AND taking actions, probably more than any American President since Nixon. You don't seem to know what they are or their results. That's not my problem. I asked about what you expected because I thought that you knew about what was happening but wanted to see more, but clearly that was not the case.
Remember Obama's "pivot to Asia" in 2011?

This article from 2017 argues that it was wrongheaded, but not that he was ignoring China. It also points out that Bush paid a lot of attention to China.

Obama once referred to himself as the first Pacific president and the pivot is touted by Obama’s defenders as a great success that properly rebalanced America’s foreign policy focus away from costly interventions in the Middle East to Asia, the prophesied center of the 21st century economy. The reality is that the pivot was a failure that caused serious negative side effects in other parts of the world.

The pivot was based on a series of flawed assumptions, namely: That U.S. foreign policy had previously neglected the Asia Pacific, that Asia’s rising importance in the global economy called for the assignment of more military resources to the region, and that the United States could afford to pull back from the Middle East and other regions. By taking the approach it did, the Obama administration managed to make tensions in the Asia-Pacific worse while also allowing the Middle East and Europe to fall into even deeper chaos than before as a result of neglect.

First, it is simply wrong that the United States was ignoring the Asia Pacific when Barack Obama came to office. Far from being neglectful, the Bush administration’s Asia policy was a success. The Bush administration helped get tensions between China and Taiwan to a historic low. It concluded free trade agreements with Australia, South Korea, and Singapore and began talks on what became the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). It also concluded a civilian nuclear agreement with India and forged a new relationship with that country while simultaneously managing to build a partnership with Pakistan to deal with Afghanistan. Some of these policies were later repackaged by the Obama administration as part of the pivot.
https://thediplomat.com/2017/01/the-...ggest-mistake/

Trump is merely talking louder about China . . . and using less finesse.
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Old 09-02-19, 07:38 AM
  #46  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
Remember Obama's "pivot to Asia" in 2011?

This article from 2017 argues that it was wrongheaded, but not that he was ignoring China. It also points out that Bush paid a lot of attention to China.

Trump is merely talking louder about China . . . and using less finesse.
A lot of Obama's pivot to Asia was focused on strengthening relations and cooperation with other Asian countries to counter the rise of China. For example the TPP was an agreement with around 10 Pacific countries but excluding China -- in the end it was dropped by the US also. Trump confronts China directly. Loud and without finesse is how he does everything.
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Old 09-02-19, 09:30 AM
  #47  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

The best way he could do some good is either resign or drop dead midterm.
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Old 09-02-19, 11:14 AM
  #48  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...uality-n973081

His administration launched an effort to decriminalize homosexuality around the world.

There is some question if Trump knew about it. And if we would go after some countries we are “friendly” with. But...even bringing awareness of this up, is a good thing.

Now if he would stop attacking the LBGTQ community here....oh wait this is a what has he done good thread.

Last edited by Sdallnct; 09-02-19 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 09-02-19, 12:30 PM
  #49  
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
The best way he could do some good is either resign or drop dead midterm.
Why would we want that???

He's our favorite President ever. He told us so himself
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Old 09-02-19, 12:35 PM
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Re: Has Trump done ANY good?

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/nat...uality-n973081

His administration launched an effort to decriminalize homosexuality around the world.

There is some question if Trump knew about it. And if we would go after some countries we are “friendly” with. But...even bringing awareness of this up, is a good thing.

Now if he would stop attacking the LBGTQ community here....oh wait this is a what has he done good thread.
Has anyone told Mike Pence about this effort?

I suspect the initiative would quietly disappear if that happened.
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