Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
06-14-19, 05:17 AM
#1
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Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
New York is looking to surpass other blue states. Here are some things on the agenda.
Drivers Licenses for undocumented workers. Passed the Democratic Assembly now going to the Democratic Senate. Democrat Governor will sign it. Pros say it gets them out of the shadows and allows them to drive, register and insure cars legally which they already do illegally. Cons say it is a priviledge given to those who follow the law and is another slap in the face to those that followed the legal path to get here. Even the County Clerk who is a Democrat had a complaint. They are required to accept foreign documentation. However he said they have no idea what proper foreign documentation looks like.
Legalizing or Decriminalizing prostitution. In the discussion stage. Pros - sees it as nothing more than a business deal between two consenting adults. Say it will reduce sex trafficking. Cons - see it as a way to encourage sex trafficking. Before anything is passed wants language that will tighten laws on trafficking. It is the world's oldest profession but no one wants to see people taken advantage of for this.
Legalize Pot. Was trying to get it in the budget but failed. WIll pass at some point. The pros and cons have been debated for decades as far as the punishment outweighing the crime for pot smokers. So far there are two issues from a law enforcement point of view. One is there is no standard or way to measure intoxication with pot. It certainly affects response time and reflexes although not in the same way alcohol does. In places where pot has been legalized there have been an increase in the number of accidents of people under the influence. The second is probable cause. Right now the smell of marijuana is probable cause for a vehicle search. Law enforcement gets A LOT of illegal drugs, illegal guns, stolen property and other contraband from these searches. So it will definitely impact their ability to impact those other areas.
Drivers Licenses for undocumented workers. Passed the Democratic Assembly now going to the Democratic Senate. Democrat Governor will sign it. Pros say it gets them out of the shadows and allows them to drive, register and insure cars legally which they already do illegally. Cons say it is a priviledge given to those who follow the law and is another slap in the face to those that followed the legal path to get here. Even the County Clerk who is a Democrat had a complaint. They are required to accept foreign documentation. However he said they have no idea what proper foreign documentation looks like.
Legalizing or Decriminalizing prostitution. In the discussion stage. Pros - sees it as nothing more than a business deal between two consenting adults. Say it will reduce sex trafficking. Cons - see it as a way to encourage sex trafficking. Before anything is passed wants language that will tighten laws on trafficking. It is the world's oldest profession but no one wants to see people taken advantage of for this.
Legalize Pot. Was trying to get it in the budget but failed. WIll pass at some point. The pros and cons have been debated for decades as far as the punishment outweighing the crime for pot smokers. So far there are two issues from a law enforcement point of view. One is there is no standard or way to measure intoxication with pot. It certainly affects response time and reflexes although not in the same way alcohol does. In places where pot has been legalized there have been an increase in the number of accidents of people under the influence. The second is probable cause. Right now the smell of marijuana is probable cause for a vehicle search. Law enforcement gets A LOT of illegal drugs, illegal guns, stolen property and other contraband from these searches. So it will definitely impact their ability to impact those other areas.
06-14-19, 05:46 AM
#3
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by TomOpus
Shouldn't this be in Politics?
06-14-19, 05:53 AM
#4
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
New Mexico allows undocumented immigrants to have driver's licenses. When the national Republican party started a push to deny them, police forces across the state came out in favor of allowing the licenses. It allows them to operate a vehicle legally. It lists an address in case the police want to go talk with them. I didn't expect driver's licenses to be a wedge issue between law and order Republicans and the xenophobic wing of the Republican party. The result of the battle is a two-tier license system. Undocumented immigrants get a different license. My NM Real ID license is harder to get than a US passport.
Nevada allows regulated prostitution, and that seems to be better than letting organized crime control it. But controlling crime or women's safety is not the real reason behind anti-prostitution laws. There is some evidence that FOSTA/SESTA made sex work less safe for the women involved, and I believe that that was the intent. Let the unclean be punished.
Some states allow marijuana, and we're still learning the long-term effects of legalization. It's "medical marijuana" here, and the dispensaries are every mile or two. There must be a lot of prescriptions issued for marijuana.
Nevada allows regulated prostitution, and that seems to be better than letting organized crime control it. But controlling crime or women's safety is not the real reason behind anti-prostitution laws. There is some evidence that FOSTA/SESTA made sex work less safe for the women involved, and I believe that that was the intent. Let the unclean be punished.
Some states allow marijuana, and we're still learning the long-term effects of legalization. It's "medical marijuana" here, and the dispensaries are every mile or two. There must be a lot of prescriptions issued for marijuana.
06-14-19, 06:04 AM
#5
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Democrat and Chronicle
The article doesn't say anything about a different license. It just says it's not valid for boarding a plane and a federal ID. But standard NY licenses aren't anyway. You have to pay extra for an enhanced license for border crossing and plane boarding.
The article doesn't say anything about a different license. It just says it's not valid for boarding a plane and a federal ID. But standard NY licenses aren't anyway. You have to pay extra for an enhanced license for border crossing and plane boarding.
06-14-19, 08:33 AM
#6
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
Some states allow marijuana, and we're still learning the long-term effects of legalization. It's "medical marijuana" here, and the dispensaries are every mile or two. There must be a lot of prescriptions issued for marijuana.
06-14-19, 09:43 AM
#7
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by JimRochester
. In places where pot has been legalized there have been an increase in the number of accidents of people under the influence.
06-14-19, 11:47 AM
#10
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by LurkerDan
Do you have a source for that? I live in Colorado, and with all the scrutiny we've had on marijuana issues, I feel like I would have seen that stat.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ow/1693567002/
But here's some good news:
In States With Legal Medical Pot, Teen Use Is Down
06-14-19, 01:42 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by LurkerDan
Do you have a source for that? I live in Colorado, and with all the scrutiny we've had on marijuana issues, I feel like I would have seen that stat.
I personally am not for the drivers licenses unless they can tell the county clerks what constitutes legal paperwork. I do admit to feeling as though that's rewarding the illegal behavior and once again penalizing the folks who went through the proper channels.
For the big P. It's the worlds oldest profession. You're never gonna stop it. If I take a girl out to dinner and drinks or just give her the cash, I still bought it. The only difference was the romance of a date. As men, we don't need a whole lot of romancing. If I go to the local Rub N' Tug ala Robert Kraft for a happy ending massage, I don't see how that hurts anyone or effects anyone's life assuming the girl is there of her own free will. If she's there rubbing out strangers for cash to pay off an indentured servitude that's another story.
I don't think people should be prosecuted for recreational quantities of pot. Throwing a ton of people in jail over minor drug offenses as we did in the last century obviously did nothing but put a whole lot of people in jail. Since it is so often linked to other criminal activity, especially guns and harder drugs, I hate to see it completely legalalized.
06-14-19, 01:55 PM
#12
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by JimRochester
Since it is so often linked to other criminal activity, especially guns and harder drugs, I hate to see it completely legalalized.
06-14-19, 01:57 PM
#13
Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by JimRochester
Since it is so often linked to other criminal activity, especially guns and harder drugs, I hate to see it completely legalalized.
06-14-19, 02:23 PM
#14
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by JimRochester
I personally am not for the drivers licenses unless they can tell the county clerks what constitutes legal paperwork. I do admit to feeling as though that's rewarding the illegal behavior and once again penalizing the folks who went through the proper channels.
I do agree that DMVs need to be given clear guidance on what ID is needed to validate a driver’s identity prior to issuing a license.
06-14-19, 02:34 PM
#15
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by JasonF
Drivers licenses aren’t a reward. They’re a means of furthering public safety by ensuring that the people who are operating motor vehicles are actually qualified to do so. Nobody is getting penalized if an undocumented immigrant gets a license. It’s not like we have a limited supply of them.
I do agree that DMVs need to be given clear guidance on what ID is needed to validate a driver’s identity prior to issuing a license.
06-14-19, 02:37 PM
#16
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
RE: The drivers' licenses
I remember a while back, there was anger that tax forms in California were printed in Spanish. The presumable "English is our national language yada yada yada" went up. But my thought was, if that was taken away, and tax forms were English-only, there were two possible results: A. Spanish-speaking people in California would have to learn English, or B. Spanish-speaking people in California would stop filing taxes. Which is more likely?
Same with a driver's licence for undocumented immigrants. A.They'll either go through the hoops to become citizens, then get a driver's license or B. They'll just drive without one.
I ask you, which is more likely?
I remember a while back, there was anger that tax forms in California were printed in Spanish. The presumable "English is our national language yada yada yada" went up. But my thought was, if that was taken away, and tax forms were English-only, there were two possible results: A. Spanish-speaking people in California would have to learn English, or B. Spanish-speaking people in California would stop filing taxes. Which is more likely?
Same with a driver's licence for undocumented immigrants. A.They'll either go through the hoops to become citizens, then get a driver's license or B. They'll just drive without one.
I ask you, which is more likely?
06-14-19, 06:50 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Good for NY. Some common sense....for a change.
And why do you think that is? Ask Al Capone.
Since it is so often linked to other criminal activity, especially guns and harder drugs, I hate to see it completely legalalized.
Last edited by Red Dog; 06-14-19 at 07:01 PM.
06-14-19, 08:31 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
And props to NY for legalizing sports gambling. Another common sense move.
Though they were so stupid to limit it to upstate casinos. Need to have it online and in the race tracks. They'll still bleed money to NJ (was in NJ over Memorial Day weekend and their on-line setup is awesome, easy, and user-friendly).
Though they were so stupid to limit it to upstate casinos. Need to have it online and in the race tracks. They'll still bleed money to NJ (was in NJ over Memorial Day weekend and their on-line setup is awesome, easy, and user-friendly).
06-15-19, 02:42 PM
#19
Originally Posted by JimRochester
If I take a girl out to dinner and drinks or just give her the cash, I still bought it. The only difference was the romance of a date. As men, we don't need a whole lot of romancing.
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
But controlling crime or women's safety is not the real reason behind anti-prostitution laws. There is some evidence that FOSTA/SESTA made sex work less safe for the women involved, and I believe that that was the intent. Let the unclean be punished.
06-15-19, 02:49 PM
#20
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by brayzie
Cites for this evidence?
Now I'm not sure I believe that was the INTENT of the law, but I'd believe it is an "acceptable side effect" to those who wrote the law.
On the other hand, for gay prostitutes, the biggest site was rentmen.com, but when that got shutdown, they just moved it overseas. I don't know why the other sites don't just do the same thing.
06-15-19, 03:02 PM
#21
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by brayzie
Cites for this evidence?
I got this, which mainly talks about Joe's post about prostitutes being back on the street again.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...n-trafficking/
06-15-19, 03:14 PM
#22
DVD Talk Hero
Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
And this.
https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5598&context=flr
2. A Law with a Body Count
FOSTA directly endangers individuals who perform commercial sexual
services by driving these transactions away from the relative protection of
the internet and back onto the street.266 Traditionally, solicitation of a sex
worker’s services took place during an in-person encounter that also
functioned as an advertisement for business: a brothel267 or, more recently,
the street.268 Street work is more dangerous than indoor work and can even
be lethal.269 Rape and assault are prevalent and seen as inevitable, and
workers are at risk of violence from clients and law enforcement alike.270 As
the internet became a ubiquitous utility, sex workers were able to move the
negotiation and solicitation stages of their business to online forums that did
not demand physical presence.271 Sex workers gained the means to create an
electronic record of client communications,272 screen potential clients,273 and
communicate with one another about dangerous clients, safe spaces, and
other industry-specific health and safety tips.274 The shift online
revolutionized the industry, imbuing sex work with a previously nonexistent
level of safety and decreasing the need for third parties as security or
advertisement intermediaries.275 The effect was striking: a 2017 study found
that “from 2002 to 2010, when Craigslist’s erotic-services site was active and
solicitation moved indoors, the female homicide rate fell by seventeen
percent.”276
FOSTA confines commercial sex to its most dangerous model.277 Since
FOSTA’s enactment, sex workers have reported an increase in
communication from “pimps” claiming that their services are necessary.278
Although some sex workers work with third parties voluntarily,279 others
may feel pressured into a situation that could easily become sex trafficking,
meaning that FOSTA could actually facilitate sex trafficking by forcing
consensual sex workers into coercive situations.280 Further, the workers
most endangered by street-based sex work tend to be from marginalized
communities.281 Women of color are disproportionately arrested and
prosecuted for prostitution-related offenses,282 and forcing sex work into the
street will only increase these arrests.283 In addition to scrubbing
advertisements for consensual sex from online forums, FOSTA threatens
access to secondary online resources used for protection and verification.284
None of these consequences has a valid relationship to FOSTA’s purported aim.
FOSTA directly endangers individuals who perform commercial sexual
services by driving these transactions away from the relative protection of
the internet and back onto the street.266 Traditionally, solicitation of a sex
worker’s services took place during an in-person encounter that also
functioned as an advertisement for business: a brothel267 or, more recently,
the street.268 Street work is more dangerous than indoor work and can even
be lethal.269 Rape and assault are prevalent and seen as inevitable, and
workers are at risk of violence from clients and law enforcement alike.270 As
the internet became a ubiquitous utility, sex workers were able to move the
negotiation and solicitation stages of their business to online forums that did
not demand physical presence.271 Sex workers gained the means to create an
electronic record of client communications,272 screen potential clients,273 and
communicate with one another about dangerous clients, safe spaces, and
other industry-specific health and safety tips.274 The shift online
revolutionized the industry, imbuing sex work with a previously nonexistent
level of safety and decreasing the need for third parties as security or
advertisement intermediaries.275 The effect was striking: a 2017 study found
that “from 2002 to 2010, when Craigslist’s erotic-services site was active and
solicitation moved indoors, the female homicide rate fell by seventeen
percent.”276
FOSTA confines commercial sex to its most dangerous model.277 Since
FOSTA’s enactment, sex workers have reported an increase in
communication from “pimps” claiming that their services are necessary.278
Although some sex workers work with third parties voluntarily,279 others
may feel pressured into a situation that could easily become sex trafficking,
meaning that FOSTA could actually facilitate sex trafficking by forcing
consensual sex workers into coercive situations.280 Further, the workers
most endangered by street-based sex work tend to be from marginalized
communities.281 Women of color are disproportionately arrested and
prosecuted for prostitution-related offenses,282 and forcing sex work into the
street will only increase these arrests.283 In addition to scrubbing
advertisements for consensual sex from online forums, FOSTA threatens
access to secondary online resources used for protection and verification.284
None of these consequences has a valid relationship to FOSTA’s purported aim.
06-15-19, 04:14 PM
#23
Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by joeblow69
I don't have any websites that support this, but the theory was, with the internet, women prostitutes were able to get off the street corners and ditch their pimps, and work out of their home based on websites, where they can better screen clients.
2)Either way it SEEMS that the majority of them who used those those websites still had a pimp, madame, or criminal organization taking a cut and offering some form of protection and management.
Now all those hookin websites have been shutdown and those women have been forced back on to the street corner. Prostitution is gonna happen regardless of the law. So the question is, where do you want your hos? On the corner? Or in the privacy of their own place?
And again, how many were are operating out of their own homes? They have the financial means and ability to own or rent a home but have no other options but to go back to turning tricks on the street after Backpage gets shut down? Not to mention the implications of secretly operating a sex work business in a residential neighborhood.
06-15-19, 04:26 PM
#24
Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by Nick Danger
I'm reading the citation right now: Craigslist Reduced Violence Against Women
Last edited by brayzie; 06-15-19 at 04:34 PM.
06-16-19, 05:12 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY
Originally Posted by JimRochester
One is there is no standard or way to measure intoxication with pot.
In places where pot has been legalized there have been an increase in the number of accidents of people under the influence.
