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Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Old 06-14-19, 05:17 AM
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Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

New York is looking to surpass other blue states. Here are some things on the agenda.

Drivers Licenses for undocumented workers. Passed the Democratic Assembly now going to the Democratic Senate. Democrat Governor will sign it. Pros say it gets them out of the shadows and allows them to drive, register and insure cars legally which they already do illegally. Cons say it is a priviledge given to those who follow the law and is another slap in the face to those that followed the legal path to get here. Even the County Clerk who is a Democrat had a complaint. They are required to accept foreign documentation. However he said they have no idea what proper foreign documentation looks like.

Legalizing or Decriminalizing prostitution. In the discussion stage. Pros - sees it as nothing more than a business deal between two consenting adults. Say it will reduce sex trafficking. Cons - see it as a way to encourage sex trafficking. Before anything is passed wants language that will tighten laws on trafficking. It is the world's oldest profession but no one wants to see people taken advantage of for this.

Legalize Pot. Was trying to get it in the budget but failed. WIll pass at some point. The pros and cons have been debated for decades as far as the punishment outweighing the crime for pot smokers. So far there are two issues from a law enforcement point of view. One is there is no standard or way to measure intoxication with pot. It certainly affects response time and reflexes although not in the same way alcohol does. In places where pot has been legalized there have been an increase in the number of accidents of people under the influence. The second is probable cause. Right now the smell of marijuana is probable cause for a vehicle search. Law enforcement gets A LOT of illegal drugs, illegal guns, stolen property and other contraband from these searches. So it will definitely impact their ability to impact those other areas.
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Old 06-14-19, 05:28 AM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Shouldn't this be in Politics?
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Old 06-14-19, 05:46 AM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by TomOpus View Post
Shouldn't this be in Politics?
Probably. It's early. Admins are free to move it where it belongs.
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Old 06-14-19, 05:53 AM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

New Mexico allows undocumented immigrants to have driver's licenses. When the national Republican party started a push to deny them, police forces across the state came out in favor of allowing the licenses. It allows them to operate a vehicle legally. It lists an address in case the police want to go talk with them. I didn't expect driver's licenses to be a wedge issue between law and order Republicans and the xenophobic wing of the Republican party. The result of the battle is a two-tier license system. Undocumented immigrants get a different license. My NM Real ID license is harder to get than a US passport.

Nevada allows regulated prostitution, and that seems to be better than letting organized crime control it. But controlling crime or women's safety is not the real reason behind anti-prostitution laws. There is some evidence that FOSTA/SESTA made sex work less safe for the women involved, and I believe that that was the intent. Let the unclean be punished.

Some states allow marijuana, and we're still learning the long-term effects of legalization. It's "medical marijuana" here, and the dispensaries are every mile or two. There must be a lot of prescriptions issued for marijuana.
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Old 06-14-19, 06:04 AM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Democrat and Chronicle

The article doesn't say anything about a different license. It just says it's not valid for boarding a plane and a federal ID. But standard NY licenses aren't anyway. You have to pay extra for an enhanced license for border crossing and plane boarding.
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Old 06-14-19, 08:33 AM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
Some states allow marijuana, and we're still learning the long-term effects of legalization. It's "medical marijuana" here, and the dispensaries are every mile or two. There must be a lot of prescriptions issued for marijuana.
Oklahoma just passed Medical this January and the dispensaries are the same as above, we have a few across the street from each other. I think there are more dispensaries than Vape/CBD places now. Seem rather easy to get one opened and an awful lot of prescriptions in 6 months.
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Old 06-14-19, 09:43 AM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
. In places where pot has been legalized there have been an increase in the number of accidents of people under the influence.
Do you have a source for that? I live in Colorado, and with all the scrutiny we've had on marijuana issues, I feel like I would have seen that stat.
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Old 06-14-19, 11:11 AM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by TomOpus View Post
Shouldn't this be in Politics?
Yup, I'm moving it, but it's an interesting discussion. I'm in favor of all 3.
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Old 06-14-19, 11:35 AM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
I'm in favor of all 3.

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Old 06-14-19, 11:47 AM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
Do you have a source for that? I live in Colorado, and with all the scrutiny we've had on marijuana issues, I feel like I would have seen that stat.
There is some data to support that. Although, I think it's still too early to come to any firm conclusions about traffic safety:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ow/1693567002/

But here's some good news:

In States With Legal Medical Pot, Teen Use Is Down
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Old 06-14-19, 01:42 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by LurkerDan View Post
Do you have a source for that? I live in Colorado, and with all the scrutiny we've had on marijuana issues, I feel like I would have seen that stat.
Since the standard is more ambiguous "impaired" or "under the influence" instead of the hard target .08 we have for alcohol it will be a while before there is consistent data. Companies are working on ways to reliably test drugs in the system. Oft times they know they have an impaired driver but since they have other things to charge him with, they go for the easier stuff to prove.

I personally am not for the drivers licenses unless they can tell the county clerks what constitutes legal paperwork. I do admit to feeling as though that's rewarding the illegal behavior and once again penalizing the folks who went through the proper channels.

For the big P. It's the worlds oldest profession. You're never gonna stop it. If I take a girl out to dinner and drinks or just give her the cash, I still bought it. The only difference was the romance of a date. As men, we don't need a whole lot of romancing. If I go to the local Rub N' Tug ala Robert Kraft for a happy ending massage, I don't see how that hurts anyone or effects anyone's life assuming the girl is there of her own free will. If she's there rubbing out strangers for cash to pay off an indentured servitude that's another story.

I don't think people should be prosecuted for recreational quantities of pot. Throwing a ton of people in jail over minor drug offenses as we did in the last century obviously did nothing but put a whole lot of people in jail. Since it is so often linked to other criminal activity, especially guns and harder drugs, I hate to see it completely legalalized.
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Old 06-14-19, 01:55 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
Since it is so often linked to other criminal activity, especially guns and harder drugs, I hate to see it completely legalalized.
But obviously that's because it's illegal now. It's a plant that can grow in your backyard. I've never even smoked pot and I know making it illegal is ridiculously silly.
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Old 06-14-19, 01:57 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
Since it is so often linked to other criminal activity, especially guns and harder drugs, I hate to see it completely legalalized.
I'm sure people said the same about alcohol during prohibition.
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Old 06-14-19, 02:23 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
I personally am not for the drivers licenses unless they can tell the county clerks what constitutes legal paperwork. I do admit to feeling as though that's rewarding the illegal behavior and once again penalizing the folks who went through the proper channels.
Drivers licenses arenít a reward. Theyíre a means of furthering public safety by ensuring that the people who are operating motor vehicles are actually qualified to do so. Nobody is getting penalized if an undocumented immigrant gets a license. Itís not like we have a limited supply of them.

I do agree that DMVs need to be given clear guidance on what ID is needed to validate a driverís identity prior to issuing a license.
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Old 06-14-19, 02:34 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post


Drivers licenses arenít a reward. Theyíre a means of furthering public safety by ensuring that the people who are operating motor vehicles are actually qualified to do so. Nobody is getting penalized if an undocumented immigrant gets a license. Itís not like we have a limited supply of them.

I do agree that DMVs need to be given clear guidance on what ID is needed to validate a driverís identity prior to issuing a license.



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Old 06-14-19, 02:37 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

RE: The drivers' licenses

I remember a while back, there was anger that tax forms in California were printed in Spanish. The presumable "English is our national language yada yada yada" went up. But my thought was, if that was taken away, and tax forms were English-only, there were two possible results: A. Spanish-speaking people in California would have to learn English, or B. Spanish-speaking people in California would stop filing taxes. Which is more likely?

Same with a driver's licence for undocumented immigrants. A.They'll either go through the hoops to become citizens, then get a driver's license or B. They'll just drive without one.

I ask you, which is more likely?
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Old 06-14-19, 06:50 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Good for NY. Some common sense....for a change.

Since it is so often linked to other criminal activity, especially guns and harder drugs, I hate to see it completely legalalized.
And why do you think that is? Ask Al Capone.

Last edited by Red Dog; 06-14-19 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 06-14-19, 08:31 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

And props to NY for legalizing sports gambling. Another common sense move.

Though they were so stupid to limit it to upstate casinos. Need to have it online and in the race tracks. They'll still bleed money to NJ (was in NJ over Memorial Day weekend and their on-line setup is awesome, easy, and user-friendly).
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Old 06-15-19, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
If I take a girl out to dinner and drinks or just give her the cash, I still bought it. The only difference was the romance of a date. As men, we don't need a whole lot of romancing.
That's just what guys say to justify paying for sex. Another one is Charlie Sheen's famous excuse, "I don't pay for sex, I pay for them to leave."

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
But controlling crime or women's safety is not the real reason behind anti-prostitution laws. There is some evidence that FOSTA/SESTA made sex work less safe for the women involved, and I believe that that was the intent. Let the unclean be punished.
Cites for this evidence?
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Old 06-15-19, 02:49 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Cites for this evidence?
I don't have any websites that support this, but the theory was, with the internet, women prostitutes were able to get off the street corners and ditch their pimps, and work out of their home based on websites, where they can better screen clients. Now all those hookin websites have been shutdown and those women have been forced back on to the street corner. Prostitution is gonna happen regardless of the law. So the question is, where do you want your hos? On the corner? Or in the privacy of their own place?

Now I'm not sure I believe that was the INTENT of the law, but I'd believe it is an "acceptable side effect" to those who wrote the law.

On the other hand, for gay prostitutes, the biggest site was rentmen.com, but when that got shutdown, they just moved it overseas. I don't know why the other sites don't just do the same thing.
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Old 06-15-19, 03:02 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Cites for this evidence?
It's one of those things I read someplace and forgot where I read it.

I got this, which mainly talks about Joe's post about prostitutes being back on the street again.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...n-trafficking/
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Old 06-15-19, 03:14 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

And this.

2. A Law with a Body Count
FOSTA directly endangers individuals who perform commercial sexual
services by driving these transactions away from the relative protection of
the internet and back onto the street.266 Traditionally, solicitation of a sex
worker’s services took place during an in-person encounter that also
functioned as an advertisement for business: a brothel267 or, more recently,
the street.268 Street work is more dangerous than indoor work and can even
be lethal.269 Rape and assault are prevalent and seen as inevitable, and
workers are at risk of violence from clients and law enforcement alike.270 As
the internet became a ubiquitous utility, sex workers were able to move the
negotiation and solicitation stages of their business to online forums that did
not demand physical presence.271 Sex workers gained the means to create an
electronic record of client communications,272 screen potential clients,273 and
communicate with one another about dangerous clients, safe spaces, and
other industry-specific health and safety tips.274 The shift online
revolutionized the industry, imbuing sex work with a previously nonexistent
level of safety and decreasing the need for third parties as security or
advertisement intermediaries.275 The effect was striking: a 2017 study found
that “from 2002 to 2010, when Craigslist’s erotic-services site was active and
solicitation moved indoors, the female homicide rate fell by seventeen
percent.”
276

FOSTA confines commercial sex to its most dangerous model.277 Since
FOSTA’s enactment, sex workers have reported an increase in
communication from “pimps” claiming that their services are necessary.278
Although some sex workers work with third parties voluntarily,279 others
may feel pressured into a situation that could easily become sex trafficking,
meaning that FOSTA could actually facilitate sex trafficking by forcing
consensual sex workers into coercive situations.280 Further, the workers
most endangered by street-based sex work tend to be from marginalized
communities.281 Women of color are disproportionately arrested and
prosecuted for prostitution-related offenses,282 and forcing sex work into the
street will only increase these arrests.283 In addition to scrubbing
advertisements for consensual sex from online forums, FOSTA threatens
access to secondary online resources used for protection and verification.284
None of these consequences has a valid relationship to FOSTA’s purported aim.
https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5598&context=flr
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Old 06-15-19, 04:14 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
I don't have any websites that support this, but the theory was, with the internet, women prostitutes were able to get off the street corners and ditch their pimps, and work out of their home based on websites, where they can better screen clients.
1)I would think that a good many, regardless of the ability to screen, aren't going to have johns arriving to their actual residence. Even well-known porn stars who escort and have a pretty serious screening process aren't doing that.
2)Either way it SEEMS that the majority of them who used those those websites still had a pimp, madame, or criminal organization taking a cut and offering some form of protection and management.

Now all those hookin websites have been shutdown and those women have been forced back on to the street corner. Prostitution is gonna happen regardless of the law. So the question is, where do you want your hos? On the corner? Or in the privacy of their own place?
Are these women all forced back on to the street corner? They can't turn to any other type of work?
And again, how many were are operating out of their own homes? They have the financial means and ability to own or rent a home but have no other options but to go back to turning tricks on the street after Backpage gets shut down? Not to mention the implications of secretly operating a sex work business in a residential neighborhood.
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Old 06-15-19, 04:26 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

This is definitely a stronger argument for keeping these sites running. However, I'd like to know how they came to this figure, what methods they used, and what the female homicide rate was before and after the 2002-2010 period. Did it go right back up, did it continue to decline? Were there possible other factors that were responsible for that decline?
I'm reading the citation right now: Craigslist Reduced Violence Against Women

Last edited by brayzie; 06-15-19 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 06-16-19, 05:12 PM
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Re: Pot, Hookers and Drivers Licenses in NY

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
One is there is no standard or way to measure intoxication with pot.
Yeah, that's a big issue right now. Tests currently available cannot test for intoxication, only the amount of THC in your system. And a heavy user could abstain for a week or more and still have THC in their system, but they definitely would not be intoxicated. Lots of possibilities for court challenges, and that's starting to happen here in Canada, especially for medical users, they will likely be thrown out of court. The current tests are BS, the only real way right now are things like roadside sobriety tests, or smelling cannabis in the car.

In places where pot has been legalized there have been an increase in the number of accidents of people under the influence.
Cannabis has been legal in Canada for nearly eight months now, and I have NOT heard of this being the case. The vast majority of people who drive while high were already doing so before legalization.

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