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Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Old 01-08-19, 11:24 AM
  #1901  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Refresher Course 99 for those wanting to learn about walls and who actually was for them. For those on this forum who still don't believe in walls or anything to keep illegal people out, please read:

Secure Fence Act of 2006

Obama, Clinton, and Schumer voted for it.

Chucky's statement in 2009 regarding illegals and walls:

Preferred to say Illegal Immigrants vs. Undocumented Workers as he said it makes the latter, seem less firm on illegal immigration.







And then:


----

So once again, why are Democrats against a wall when they voted for it not too long ago. The answer is simple. It's just because Trump wants it, not because it will work. The Dems entire political journey, once again, is formulated out of pure hatred for a single man who scooped them on the Presidency.

For those who think their Liberal leaders were against walls and were for open borders...think again. You've been lied to.
Congressional Democrats (then and now) are in favor of border security. In fact, the bill for DHS funding includes $1.6B for border security upgrades.

What you - and numerous Republican voters - are saying is based on a fallacy.

In reality, Border Security =/= "The Great Wall of Trump".

A wall, fence, cameras, drones, and agents are all tools that can be utilized to help ensure border security. The best choice depends on a number of factors - which are not the same along the whole border.

If the Democrats offered DHS $5B more for border security - to be used for anything other than a 30' tall wall of concrete (or steel slats) - do you think DHS would turn it down? I'm not talking Trump here - I'm talking the Department as a whole.

And here's where the "Build a wall!" crowd fails in their thinking: Once the wall IS built ... then what? Is the border secure, so all of the DHS people can transfer to other jobs? The wall will need maintenance, and the wall will need options for monitoring. Let's say the government decides to build a observation tower/ranger station every mile. Those can be populated by DHS personnel, or simply fitted with cameras that monitor the area from a remote location. Aren't those going to be additional annual expenses? Let's say we built the observation towers every mile, and skipped the physical steel wall. Maybe put up more fencing in risky areas. How much of the $25B would that save - and still achieve similar results?

If there's a wall with steel slats, I'm sure cutting torches would be a big seller in northern Mexico

Trump wants the wall as a monument to his ego. There are more efficient ways to secure the border, and better uses for $25B.

Last edited by Kmical; 01-08-19 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 01-08-19, 11:28 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Context matters.


Winning the argument matters. In fact, this reeks of the undercurrent that cost HRC the White House in 2016 to begin with. You may think you are better than millions of other Americans, but you gain nothing from pointing it out if you are in politics.

i have mentioned tha senators HRC and Obama voted for the fence you mention. But again you leave out the context. The voted in favor as part of negotiations as the lessor of worse immigration laws.
Actually, no, as I pointed out in my post which you did not carefully read, much of it dates from the mid-90s, long before either HRC or Obama were in the Senate. The Secure Fence Act of 2006 only added to the hundreds of miles that were already there.

Its also not “snubbing your nose” at anyone to call Trump or his actions racist. For those in power, it’s called “doing your job”.
That's not what I said, but then I am used to this from you.
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Old 01-08-19, 11:30 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Pence is more than likely running for office in 2020? As what, the lying, disgraced VP of a president who went went down in flames bigger than any president in history? Can't wait to see that campaign.
I see Pence as more of a Dan Quayle, someone when gone from office is simply gone.. or maybe gone to jail, or a country that does not extradite to the US..

I'm not sure if Pence is as corrupt as the Dumpster but I wouldn't be surprised if he was anything less than complicit if not another unindicted co-conspirator.

Last edited by jpcamb; 01-08-19 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 01-08-19, 11:33 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
I don't think anyone, or certainly very few people here, are disputing Trump's racism-tinged motives. The question is if calling the wall "immoral" or even "racist" is an effective strategy compared to focusing efforts on demonstrating (correctly) that the wall is going to be ineffective and far more expensive than the marginal benefit gained. More importantly, there are much, much better ways to spend the money to enhance border security than building this wall. This should be the baseline of the argument. I would add, as I have multiple times already, that the Democrats should be on point in suggesting pragmatic alternatives and demonstrating that they are willing to spend the money to do so.
I agree. The conversation needs to go further though, IMO. There seems to be the agreed upon assumption by both parties that our immigration laws need to be fixed and that we need to improve border security. I'm not so quick to agree with these assumptions. I'd like to see objective data regarding border security to determine if any changes are needed in the first place. At the very least, we'd need to have an accurate assessment in order to have an effective solution.

I hear both sides of the aisle talk about immigration laws needing to be changed but they don't outline the specific things they see as being broken.



Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
Again, the wall itself is not racist. Trump's motives for building it largely are. Never mind Trump's 37% support are a lost cause, but there are a lot of other people not in that 37% who are very concerned about border security who fall into the "well, maybe a wall isn't a bad idea" camp. By calling the wall "immoral" and "racist", you are intimating that they themselves are immoral and racist. Not exactly the best way to win over hearts and minds, is it?
I agree. I appreciate that you separate the act (building a wall) from the intention (Trump's racist xenophobia).

I firmly believe that the issue of immigration is nothing more than the next contrived political battleground. It's no longer abortion (at least for now), and not same-sex marriage. The parties needed something new in order to ensure that their troops stay in their camps. It's immigration this time.
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Old 01-08-19, 11:34 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by jpcamb View Post
I see Pence as more of a Dan Quayle, someone when gone from office is simply gone.. or maybe gone to jail, or a country that does not expedite to the US..
Did they try DHL?
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Old 01-08-19, 11:35 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by jpcamb View Post
I see Pence as more of a Dan Quayle, someone when gone from office is simply gone.. or maybe gone to jail, or a country that does not expedite to the US..

I'm not sure if Pence is as corrupt as the Dumpster but I wouldn't be surprised if he was anything less than complicit if not another unindicted co-conspirator.
Who sees the country at the end of this boondoggle thinking, you know that Trump guy was so good, let's elect his neutered underling who kept silent while he wreaked havoc on every institution this country has.
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Old 01-08-19, 11:37 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Who sees the country at the end of this boondoggle thinking, you know that Trump guy was so good, let's elect his neutered underling who kept silent while he wreaked havoc on every institution this country has.
I think it's more of "Trump was so bad, can this guy (Pence) end up being any worse?"
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Old 01-08-19, 12:29 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Walls aren't racist. They aren't immoral, either.

Now you're giving me an argument that Republicans shit out their ass during Obama's Presidency...which is, "because I don't like Obama and because Obama is a terrorist...I won't vote for any legislation makes sense coming from the Obama Administration."
Now your just being purposely obtuse. Statues aren’t racist or immoral themselves. It’s what they represent.

i don’t know Trump. I only know what he says and does. Those things I hate.
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Old 01-08-19, 12:51 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Kmical View Post
I think it's more of "Trump was so bad, can this guy (Pence) end up being any worse?"
Jesus, look at how much the guy has aged in two years. Brown nosing Trump is not good for your health.



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Old 01-08-19, 12:55 PM
  #1910  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I firmly believe that the issue of immigration is nothing more than the next contrived political battleground. It's no longer abortion (at least for now), and not same-sex marriage. The parties needed something new in order to ensure that their troops stay in their camps. It's immigration this time.
Somewhere in there were other fights that are now off the table: Tax burden and deficit (Republicans won) and moral values (nobody is clean so we don't talk about that anymore).
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Old 01-08-19, 12:57 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Jesus, look at how much the guy has aged in two years. Brown nosing Trump is not good for your health.



The demon wishes to shed his skin.
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Old 01-08-19, 12:57 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3


Nice work Manafort legal team. - lol

Very cool and I think Very Legal!
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Old 01-08-19, 12:58 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Hire Giuliani! He can fix it!
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Old 01-08-19, 01:06 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

It's actually so bad maybe they did it on purpose.


the redacted document is https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...0190108-Dc.pdf

and If you just highlight any of the redacted bits and paste into notepad or whatever you can see the text!
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Old 01-08-19, 01:06 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

So Trump's campaign manager was sharing 2016 polling data with the Russians so they could target certain demographics? And people still want to claim no collusion? Got it.
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Old 01-08-19, 01:08 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by BDB View Post
It's actually so bad maybe they did it on purpose.


the redacted document is https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...0190108-Dc.pdf

and If you just highlight any of the redacted bits and paste into notepad or whatever you can see the text!
Cool I did it myself

(
See, e.g.
, Doc. 460 at 5 (After being shown documents, Mr. Manafort
“conceded” that he discussed or may have discussed a Ukraine peace plan with Mr. Kilimnik on
more than one occasion);
id.
at 6 (After being told that Mr. Kilimnik had traveled to Madrid on the
same day that Mr. Manafort was in Madrid, Mr. Manafort “acknowledged” that he and Mr.
Kilimnik met while they were both in Madrid)).

In fact, during a proffer meeting held
with the Special Counsel on September 11, 2018, Mr. Manafort explained to the Government
attorneys and investigators that he would have given the Ukrainian peace plan more thought, had
the issue not been raised during the period he was engaged with work related to the presidential
Case 1:17-cr-00201-ABJ Document 471 Filed 01/08/19 Page 5 of 10
6
campaign. Issues and communications related to Ukrainian political events simply were not at the
forefront of Mr. Manafort’s mind during the period at issue and it is not surprising at all that Mr.
Manafort was unable to recall specific details prior to having his recollection refreshed. The same
is true with regard to the Government’s allegation that Mr. Manafort lied about sharing polling
data with Mr. Kilimnik related to the 2016 presidential campaign. (
See
Doc. 460 at 6).
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Old 01-08-19, 01:10 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by E Unit View Post
The demon wishes to shed his skin.
It's almost like one picture he's on TV giving a speech wearing makeup, and the other is a candid photo.

This should be its own thread, not lost in the middle of this one!
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Old 01-08-19, 01:16 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by E Unit View Post
The demon wishes to shed his skin.
Or time for another bath in virgins' blood.
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Old 01-08-19, 01:17 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by BDB View Post
Nice work Manafort legal team. - lol

Very cool and I think Very Legal!
We are now at stage 2 of:

1. We didn't do it.
2. But if we did, it's not illegal.
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Old 01-08-19, 01:20 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Jeez, trump is basically the guy holding a gun to his own foot, warning everyone they better not or he's gonna do it!

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Old 01-08-19, 01:24 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Just heard that the speech tonight is only expected to last 8 minutes.
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Old 01-08-19, 01:31 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
Just heard that the speech tonight is only expected to last 8 minutes.
And 7 minutes of that will be incoherent rambling.
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Old 01-08-19, 01:32 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
Just heard that the speech tonight is only expected to last 8 minutes.
That's fine. Trump has limited thought and vocabulary, so usually after one minute, he just repeats himself.
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Old 01-08-19, 01:38 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
Just heard that the speech tonight is only expected to last 8 minutes.
His advisors probably recommended that he keep it short.

I suspect the following:
1. Trump will veer off-script after the first minute
2. Trump will speak for longer than 8 minutes
3. At some point in the speech, Trump will declare that he's the only one that can fix the immigration problem, and that he (and his administration) are the greatest in the history of this country.
4. He'll lie at least once
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Old 01-08-19, 01:42 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Kmical View Post
4. He'll lie at least once
That's like bidding $1 on the Price is Right. You know it's impossible for the answer to be less than 1.
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