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Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Old 05-31-19, 11:02 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Lil Donnie has been trying hard today to manufacture another border crisis to take the momentum away from the Mueller report and impeachment talks.
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Old 05-31-19, 11:07 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Winning the 2020 Presidential election is 10,000 times more important than an impeachment proceeding that can't realistically result in removal. Eye on the prize....
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Old 05-31-19, 11:13 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Red Hood View Post
I completely agree with this 100%. Mueller is at fault here from the beginning for talking in this vague manner instead of being straightforward about it. I know he's speaking legalese to cover his ass in some respect, but he already did that in the report. His press conference needed to be as straightforward as possible.

https://youtu.be/WfIhqvZTExg
Mueller was as straightforward as possible. Even Trevor acknowledged that with his herpes analogy. Mueller basically stood on stage and said "I'm not allowed to say if he has herpes. But I am allowed to say if he doesn't have herpes. This is me not saying that."
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Old 05-31-19, 11:24 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Mueller was as straightforward as possible. Even Trevor acknowledged that with his herpes analogy. Mueller basically stood on stage and said "I'm not allowed to say if he has herpes. But I am allowed to say if he doesn't have herpes. This is me not saying that."
So ... Trump has herpes?
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Old 05-31-19, 11:24 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Own yourself to own the Libs...


When autonomous trucks put these fucking cretins out of jobs, I will laugh and laugh, and then tell them that facts don't care about their feelings, or their ability to feed themselves.
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Old 05-31-19, 11:31 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Winning the 2020 Presidential election is 10,000 times more important than an impeachment proceeding that can't realistically result in removal. Eye on the prize....
Id argue that failure to impeach will discourage those on the left from voting far more than it will keep the right home. Also the attention that impeachment hearings will bring to the mueller report should encourage those in the left/center to vote as they’ll follow highlighting the mueller report with a demonstration of how important it is for them to get out and vote.
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Old 05-31-19, 11:39 AM
  #9657  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Winning the 2020 Presidential election is 10,000 times more important than an impeachment proceeding that can't realistically result in removal. Eye on the prize....
The counter point is "why not both?" but honestly, I think you're right. In the end, impeachment doesn't need to happen because, if the relevant departments are worth their salt, they'll initiate indictment the day master T leaves office. That should be in Jan 2021, not Jan 2025.
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Old 05-31-19, 11:41 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

The issue with not even trying Impeachment is that it sets the standard that any President can be as crooked as they want, provided their party holds the Senate. Because, why not?
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Old 05-31-19, 11:41 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Kmical View Post
So ... Trump has herpes?
This is me not saying he doesn't have herpes.
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Old 05-31-19, 11:43 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
The issue with not even trying Impeachment is that it sets the standard that any President can be as crooked as they want, provided their party holds the Senate. Because, why not?
Impeaching Trump and having Republican acquit on party lines sends the exact same message. And it's not just "as long as their party holds the Senate." It's "as long as the other party doesn't have a two-thirds majority of the Senate."
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Old 05-31-19, 11:45 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Impeaching Trump and having Republican acquit on party lines sends the exact same message. And it's not just "as long as their party holds the Senate." It's "as long as the other party doesn't have a two-thirds majority of the Senate."
True. I still think it's a bad message. "We know the Senate won't pass it so we'll just ignore all of the evidence pointing to crimes being committed." Any future President can sit back and feel safe that the other side won't even attempt it.
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Old 05-31-19, 11:46 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
The issue with not even trying Impeachment is that it sets the standard that any President can be as crooked as they want, provided their party holds the Senate. Because, why not?
I mean, isn't that true?
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Old 05-31-19, 11:49 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I mean, isn't that true?
As long as we have Senators who care more about their seat and party than our Country, then yes; I guess it is (sadly) true.
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Old 05-31-19, 11:54 AM
  #9664  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Winning the 2020 Presidential election is 10,000 times more important than an impeachment proceeding that can't realistically result in removal. Eye on the prize....
I'm for impeachment but only if I had faith fhat Congress could pull it off (maybe) or the Senate would remove him from office (they won't).

So at this point I'm with Decker. We're 18 months out from the election. Even if Democrats began impeachment proceedings today, how long would the process take? Six months? Nine? A year? So then you're looking at impeaching with only months left on his term. At this point, I don't think it's worth the gamble.

If Democrats simply want an * next to his name in the history books, unseal everything, get rid of Barr and email everyone in the country a copy of the Mueller Report. Prosecute every petty crime he committed in office after he's out. Then take steps to strengthen the Constitution so we can prosecute a criminal POTUS in the future, or better yet prevent someone like him from even getting elected. REQUIRE showing your taxes. REQUIRE separation from business. PREVENT nepotism and the hiring of unqualified and/or persons diametrically opposed to the position they are seeking. These were unwritten rules for 200 years but apparently we need to write this shit down.
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Old 05-31-19, 11:56 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

And with each state, no matter how low their population, having 2 senators, we're never going to get a Dem senate (can someone explain to me why MS and CA have the same representation in the Senate).
So I'm afraid that when we get a Dem pres, a GOP Senate will impeach just on the slightest whim.
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Old 05-31-19, 11:57 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
The issue with not even trying Impeachment is that it sets the standard that any President can be as crooked as they want, provided their party holds the Senate. Because, why not?
It used to be that impeachment was a huge stain on a Presidency and that was worth something. But since Clinton was impeached and it really had very little effect on his legacy (and will even less so historically -- it will be a footnote and always identified as partisan politics), even that "stain" is minimal.

I would love to see Trump impeached, he certainly deserves it. But without an airtight case, I really do think it just mobilizes Republicans who are less enthusiastic about voting for Trump but don't want to see the Democrats trying to circumvent the election. I honestly believe that would be the outcome -- people who may not be happy with Trump and who might stay at home getting a fire lit under their asses because they hate the other side so much. That's the downside. The upside is that it "feels like the right thing to do". As the other side likes to say, Fuck Your Feelings.
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Old 05-31-19, 12:10 PM
  #9667  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
The issue with not even trying Impeachment is that it sets the standard that any President can be as crooked as they want, provided their party holds the Senate. Because, why not?
The fact that there is even a question about proceeding with an impeachment inquiry is evidence that we're beyond that point.

Regardless of what Mueller said about no one being above the law, the reality is, and has always been, that there ARE people who are above the law. Trump is just the latest example of that.

It's difficult for people to accept. No one wants to think that it'll never get better. Sure, there'll be a momentary corrective response, as there was after Watergate, but that will subside and things will continue on its downward spiraling path.

The same is true of society itself. Racism didn't go away. Bigotry didn't disappear. Criminal greed marches on. These things simply go back into hiding but never cease to exist.
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Old 05-31-19, 12:14 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Dr. Obvious here chiming in....

There are 17 months until the next election (and I'm certainly not looking forward to next summer's nuttiness).

As I understand it
  • If he is NOT re-elected, in January 2021, all of these investigations do not go away right? I mean, he and his ilk could still be prosecuted for criminal conspiracy or Obstruction of Justice.
  • I believe I read that it took 10 months, from the start of the Impeachment process to Nixon's resignation (when it looked like the senate would convict him). And the issues surrounding this impeachment were considerable. Nixon also had three years of his second term left, the break-in happening during the election cycle of 1972.
  • Clinton's Impeachment only took three months, ending in Senate Acquittal. In my opinion, the issues surrounding this process were not considerable (hinging on his pejorative statement)
  • One last point I want to consider, the pain of the nation after Nixon's resignation. The malaise, the anger, the mistrust. While most people feel Jimmy Carter was one of the worst presidents in our history, I say that he was just what our nation needed in the late 70's, stability and reason. This was leveraged against him in the 1980 election. (This is a summary of my opinion only)

So, it seems to me that Democratic leadership is attempting to learn from past history. If re-elected, then they can proceed with impeachment, which would be the worst outcome of all of this.

I think that it is wise to focus on squelching Trump's re-election processes and preventing that from happening. Then bringing all of the power of state/local/federal judicial agencies to bear January 2021. That would be the best outcome as I believe that there is sufficient evidence. This takes the politics out of his prosecution.

Of course, this relies on him not being re-elected. So, how does that get accomplished? (to the election thread batman!)
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Old 05-31-19, 12:20 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by grip View Post
Dr. Obvious here chiming in....

There are 17 months until the next election (and I'm certainly not looking forward to next summer's nuttiness).

As I understand it
  • If he is NOT re-elected, in January 2021, all of these investigations do not go away right? I mean, he and his ilk could still be prosecuted for criminal conspiracy or Obstruction of Justice.
  • I believe I read that it took 10 months, from the start of the Impeachment process to Nixon's resignation (when it looked like the senate would convict him). And the issues surrounding this impeachment were considerable. Nixon also had three years of his second term left, the break-in happening during the election cycle of 1972.
  • Clinton's Impeachment only took three months, ending in Senate Acquittal. In my opinion, the issues surrounding this process were not considerable (hinging on his pejorative statement)
  • One last point I want to consider, the pain of the nation after Nixon's resignation. The malaise, the anger, the mistrust. While most people feel Jimmy Carter was one of the worst presidents in our history, I say that he was just what our nation needed in the late 70's, stability and reason. This was leveraged against him in the 1980 election. (This is a summary of my opinion only)

So, it seems to me that Democratic leadership is attempting to learn from past history. If re-elected, then they can proceed with impeachment, which would be the worst outcome of all of this.

I think that it is wise to focus on squelching Trump's re-election processes and preventing that from happening. Then bringing all of the power of state/local/federal judicial agencies to bear January 2021. That would be the best outcome as I believe that there is sufficient evidence. This takes the politics out of his prosecution.

Of course, this relies on him not being re-elected. So, how does that get accomplished? (to the election thread batman!)

Just to give you a fair warning, you may get a big 'whataboutism' from this crowd for bringing up anything that isn't exactly relevant to today. I got buried here for bringing up Clinton Impeachment the other day, so I would duck and run!

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Old 05-31-19, 12:36 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
Just to give you a fair warning, you may get a big 'whataboutism' from this crowd for bringing up anything that isn't exactly relevant to today. I got buried here for bringing up Clinton Impeachment the other day, so I would duck and run!
I consider myself warned. And, well, I can accept it if someone has a valid point about my comments, even if it contains the "whatabout" tactic. I'm not apt to Duck and Run. That would only mean I have no real counterpoint to the opinion I'm trying to get across.

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Old 05-31-19, 12:49 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

And now with the impending tariffs against Mexico, well, get ready to pay more for your Mexican food, beer, cars, and Blu-rays. Just turn that BD case over and you'll see at the bottom where it says "Manufactured in Mexico."
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Old 05-31-19, 12:51 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
And with each state, no matter how low their population, having 2 senators, we're never going to get a Dem senate (can someone explain to me why MS and CA have the same representation in the Senate).
So I'm afraid that when we get a Dem pres, a GOP Senate will impeach just on the slightest whim.
Forgot your junior high social studies (aka civics, history, whatever) class already?

One house of Congress is equal representation of all the states, the other is based on population. Thus, CA has more Representatives than MS, but an equal number of Senators. The two are supposed to balance one another out. Whether or not that actually happens is a topic for another thread.
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Old 05-31-19, 01:08 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
Just to give you a fair warning, you may get a big 'whataboutism' from this crowd for bringing up anything that isn't exactly relevant to today. I got buried here for bringing up Clinton Impeachment the other day, so I would duck and run!
Comparing Clinton's impeachment for lying about a sexual tryst is quite different than impeaching a President on criminal charges of a higher order. One affects a marriage and has very little to do with the actual country while the other directly affects the country. Also, you prove the counterpoint to Decker's response that Clinton's impeachment has had little affect on his legacy as you and other Republicans I know love to bring it up despite the ultimate outcome. You guys just ignore the final ruling as if the impeachment itself was the end. In this case, Trump needs to be impeached despite what we already know: the scum suckers will vote not-guilty regardless of the evidence presented.
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Old 05-31-19, 01:13 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
It used to be that impeachment was a huge stain on a Presidency and that was worth something. But since Clinton was impeached and it really had very little effect on his legacy (and will even less so historically -- it will be a footnote and always identified as partisan politics), even that "stain" is minimal.

I would love to see Trump impeached, he certainly deserves it. But without an airtight case, I really do think it just mobilizes Republicans who are less enthusiastic about voting for Trump but don't want to see the Democrats trying to circumvent the election. I honestly believe that would be the outcome -- people who may not be happy with Trump and who might stay at home getting a fire lit under their asses because they hate the other side so much. That's the downside. The upside is that it "feels like the right thing to do". As the other side likes to say, Fuck Your Feelings.
Originally Posted by grip View Post
Dr. Obvious here chiming in....

There are 17 months until the next election (and I'm certainly not looking forward to next summer's nuttiness).

As I understand it
  • If he is NOT re-elected, in January 2021, all of these investigations do not go away right? I mean, he and his ilk could still be prosecuted for criminal conspiracy or Obstruction of Justice.
  • I believe I read that it took 10 months, from the start of the Impeachment process to Nixon's resignation (when it looked like the senate would convict him). And the issues surrounding this impeachment were considerable. Nixon also had three years of his second term left, the break-in happening during the election cycle of 1972.
  • Clinton's Impeachment only took three months, ending in Senate Acquittal. In my opinion, the issues surrounding this process were not considerable (hinging on his pejorative statement)
  • One last point I want to consider, the pain of the nation after Nixon's resignation. The malaise, the anger, the mistrust. While most people feel Jimmy Carter was one of the worst presidents in our history, I say that he was just what our nation needed in the late 70's, stability and reason. This was leveraged against him in the 1980 election. (This is a summary of my opinion only)

So, it seems to me that Democratic leadership is attempting to learn from past history. If re-elected, then they can proceed with impeachment, which would be the worst outcome of all of this.

I think that it is wise to focus on squelching Trump's re-election processes and preventing that from happening. Then bringing all of the power of state/local/federal judicial agencies to bear January 2021. That would be the best outcome as I believe that there is sufficient evidence. This takes the politics out of his prosecution.

Of course, this relies on him not being re-elected. So, how does that get accomplished? (to the election thread batman!)
To me just looking at all impeachment’s the same does a disservice to the American people. Clinton committed a crime. But rightly or wrongly a lot of people “understand” lying about having an affair. Plus it wasn’t “work related”. Clinton also gave a big apology in public.

Nixon was totally different. On many, obvious levels. The distrust here is much more obvious. Nixon was also very arrogant about the whole thing.

To me, Trump has done worse than both put together. And even more arrogant than Nixon.

(Think I shouldn’t have to say, I’m not defending Clinton. He was an idiot for lying. But I do think context matters)
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Old 05-31-19, 01:21 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by grip View Post
Dr. Obvious here chiming in....
  • . The malaise, the anger, the mistrust. While most people feel Jimmy Carter was one of the worst presidents in our history, I say that he was just what our nation needed in the late 70's, stability and reason. This was leveraged against him in the 1980 election. (This is a summary of my opinion only)
I just want to address this point above, I think the country has rarely been so polarized on party lines as it is now. For example I know many people that have unfriended significant numbers of people as they are on the opposite side of their part. There is significant distrust of Republicans by Democrats and Democrats of Republicans. I was reading a rant on another forum and I was really surprised as the person was saying that three people were illegally elected and hate the country and to me at first it sounded like he was pissed about 2016, it wasn't until halfway thru where they started naming names and it was the "Muslim" senators and not the pres/VP etc. Trump has consistently riled up his base using a lot of falsehoods and many outright lies and pushed on the divide. He has made no efforts to embrace the country as a whole and gone straight into campaign mode with victory rallys hammering home the lock her up BS. Its a little hard for me to see any way this improves with the status quo and it will in all likelyhood get worse if he is tried for high crimes and misdemeanors but I have to question letting things slide as the odds of Republicans allowing it to happen are so low. It really all makes me mistrust the government. Now excuse me while I go listen to Pink Floyd the Wall album...
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