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Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Old 03-25-19, 09:29 AM
  #6701  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
if im not mistaken, i thought he couldnt release the full report until the scrub it for stuff that is grand jury material. am i wrong?
I believe you are correct .. I think it should be released minus those parts. It did take 2 years to compile the report, I would think 2 weeks is a reasonable time to release it to the public. No one said 2 weeks, I threw than in as a fairly arbitrary number.
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Old 03-25-19, 09:44 AM
  #6702  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
if im not mistaken, i thought he couldnt release the full report until the scrub it for stuff that is grand jury material. am i wrong?
His reasoning in the letter is as such:
Based on my discussions with the Special Counsel and my initial review, it is apparent that the report contains material that is or could be subject to Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 6(e), which imposes restrictions on the use and disclosure of information relating to "matter(s) occurring before (a) grand jury." Fed. R. Crim. P. 6(e)(2)(B). Rule 6(e) generally limits disclosure of certain grand jury information in a criminal investigation and prosecution. Id. Disclosure of 6(3) material beyoond the strict limits set forth in the rule is a crime in certain circumstances. See, e.g., 18 U.S.C § 403(3). This restriction protects the integrity of grand jury proceedings and ensures that the unique and invaluable investigative powers of a grand jury are used strictly for their intended criminal justice function.
I'm no lawyer (and I hope those that are can chime in), so I'll say this may be a legitimate reason not to release the full report, however, Barr's use of "apparent" and "material that is or could be" seems like it could also very much NOT be, and rather just a way to stall.

So if the rule applies, that's fine, and if the rule doesn't apply, then it's just wasted time. But in the meantime, I still think the summaries - from the report, not from Barr - should be released first and foremost.
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Old 03-25-19, 09:56 AM
  #6703  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Red Hood View Post
The problem is that in no way the Clinton email or blowjob scandal equal to Trump betraying the American people for and with the Russians. The Clinton things are almost trivial, but what Trump and his team have done is basically give the enemy access to American politics and much more.
The other issue is there was an accepted set of facts to work from. HRC admitted she used a private server. So the investigation was very narrow.

There was not a similar accepted set of facts facts to start from. Thus the invest had to start at ground zero.
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Old 03-25-19, 10:12 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Out of NYT, The Post, WSJ and NY Daily News, who would've thought that the Daily freaking News would have the most accurate headline...

[for size]
Spoiler:




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Old 03-25-19, 10:15 AM
  #6705  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

I definitely would have liked more answers from the little bit we've gotten from the report. My preference from the start has obviously been that the president not be compromised by a foreign power, but now his actions are even more confusing. Why did he act like Putin's pet monkey on stage in Helsinki? Why has he consistently resisted sanctions on Russia?

So no, I don't suddenly think the President is a good man. I don't think anyone was wrong for asking these questions. I'm still hoping to see more about Russia's actions and some definitive moves to stop further interference.
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Old 03-25-19, 10:24 AM
  #6706  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by GoldenJCJ View Post
Republicans last week: “Mueller is corrupt and working for the Dems! He can’t be trusted and his report should be completely disregarded!”

Republicans today: “ See, Trump has been completely exonerated! Mueller’s report should be the final word on this!”

Similarly, I'm seeing posts on FB of people talking about what a waste of money this was. One person went so far as to say that the Democrats, including Obama & Clinton, should be charged as the Spec. Counsel investigation was equivalent to a false police report. I mean, that's some messed up logic. A Republican Asst. Attorney General (Rosenstein) assigns a Republican special counsel (Mueller) at a time in which the Republicans controlled the House, Senate, and Presidency....but this is the Democrats doing and they need to be charged and held accountable... What a world...

I also agree in that the GOP & their base will sit there and argue that the Benghazi and Email investigations were insufficient and must be investigated further despite there being zero indictments, millions spent, and years of investigations. Those were all inadequate.

Suddenly Mueller's is perfect and nothing more should be done and it was a complete waste despite 39 indictments and Papadapolous (sp?), Flynn, Manafort, Cohen, and soon-to-be-Roger Stone were all found or pled guilty.

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Old 03-25-19, 11:45 AM
  #6707  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
Similarly, I'm seeing posts on FB of people talking about what a waste of money this was. One person went so far as to say that the Democrats, including Obama & Clinton, should be charged as the Spec. Counsel investigation was equivalent to a false police report. I mean, that's some messed up logic. A Republican Asst. Attorney General (Rosenstein) assigns a Republican special counsel (Mueller) at a time in which the Republicans controlled the House, Senate, and Presidency....but this is the Democrats doing and they need to be charged and held accountable... What a world...

I also agree in that the GOP & their base will sit there and argue that the Benghazi and Email investigations were insufficient and must be investigated further despite there being zero indictments, millions spent, and years of investigations. Those were all inadequate.

Suddenly Mueller's is perfect and nothing more should be done and it was a complete waste despite 39 indictments and Papadapolous (sp?), Flynn, Manafort, Cohen, and soon-to-be-Roger Stone were all found or pled guilty.
i hate trump but see what the dems are now saying about Rob Mull... basically the same thing
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Old 03-25-19, 12:19 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

LOL at Slate!

Bill Barr’s Weasel Words
All the ways the attorney general is spinning the Mueller report to protect Trump.

Basically, Barr's not even good at this, and the more you read his findings, the more it falls apart.

And I saw something earlier that only like 5% of the words in Barr's report are actually from Mueller and half of those are just the title of the report. What a hack!
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Old 03-25-19, 12:41 PM
  #6709  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by GoVegan View Post
I definitely would have liked more answers from the little bit we've gotten from the report. My preference from the start has obviously been that the president not be compromised by a foreign power, but now his actions are even more confusing. Why did he act like Putin's pet monkey on stage in Helsinki? Why has he consistently resisted sanctions on Russia?

So no, I don't suddenly think the President is a good man. I don't think anyone was wrong for asking these questions. I'm still hoping to see more about Russia's actions and some definitive moves to stop further interference.
I agree.

As to confusion about his actions, I'm going with, "he's a reality TV show actor". He loves drama and he thrives on drama. He loves to see people run around with their hair on fire simply because of the words he says. He is the author of confusion.
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Old 03-25-19, 01:16 PM
  #6710  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
LOL at Slate!

Bill Barr’s Weasel Words
All the ways the attorney general is spinning the Mueller report to protect Trump.
some choice quotes from Slate:
“The Russian government.” The letter quotes a sentence from Mueller’s report. In that sentence, Mueller says his investigation didn’t prove that members of the Trump campaign “conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.” The sentence specifies Russia’s government. It says nothing about coordination with other Russians. Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, gave campaign polling data to Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian associate who has been linked to Russian intelligence. Manafort, Donald Trump Jr., and Jared Kushner met secretly in Trump Tower with Natalia Veselnitskaya, a Kremlin-connected lawyer. But neither Kilimnik nor Veselnitskaya is part of the Russian government. They seem to be excluded from Barr’s analysis.
“Absence of such evidence.” One reason to be suspicious of Barr’s conclusions is that in the course of the letter, he tweaks Mueller’s opinion to look more like his own. Mueller’s report, as excerpted by Barr, says “the evidence does not establish that the President was involved in an underlying crime related to Russian election interference.” Barr quotes that line and then, in the same sentence, concludes that “the absence of such evidence bears upon the President’s intent with respect to obstruction.” But the excerpt from Mueller’s report doesn’t refer to an absence of evidence. It refers to a presence of evidence, and it says this evidence isn’t enough to prove a crime. Throughout the investigation, this has been a standard Republican maneuver: misrepresenting an absence of proof as an absence of evidence. Barr’s use of this maneuver in his letter is a red flag that he’s writing partisan spin.
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Old 03-25-19, 01:34 PM
  #6711  
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Anyone know the accuracy of this? Meaning, knowing that Mueller did not reach a legal conclusion on the issue of obstruction, is it accurate that the House Judiciary Committee should be the constitutionally correct group to make or not make that conclusion, and NOT the AG himself?


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Old 03-25-19, 01:59 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
i hate trump but see what the dems are now saying about Rob Mull... basically the same thing
I haven't seen any Dems going after Mueller. I see a lot of them asking for the full report or more information.
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Old 03-25-19, 02:07 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
I haven't seen any Dems going after Mueller. I see a lot of them asking for the full report or more information.
Adam Schiff is second guessing Mueller and said that it was a mistake to not call Trump in to testify. I expect that if details of Mueller's report are made known to Congress, Schiff and Swawell will have more to say about how Mueller made mistakes.
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Old 03-25-19, 02:15 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Some on CNN addressed this. Essentially, Trump's testifying would have mattered if they already had something solid on conspiracy. Obviously, they did not. As for obstruction, good article from that Graff fellow, who's often on CNN as well:

MUELLER SAYS NO COLLUSION, BARR RAISES A MILLION QUESTIONS

https://www.wired.com/story/mueller-...investigation/
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Old 03-25-19, 03:45 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

If you want people to stop calling you fascists...then stop behaving like them.

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Old 03-25-19, 03:54 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

"Ve have the names of the collaborators!" Stay classy Donnie!
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Old 03-25-19, 04:20 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

God I wish I was in a position to get that memo and then delete it from my inbox.
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Old 03-25-19, 04:23 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Fucking hell with these people... I can name 20 trump supporters off the top of my head who, by the standard of this letter, should never be allowed on television news ever again.

"Does this guest warrant further appearances in our programming, given the outrageous and unsupported claims made in the past?"

trump himself does not meet this standard! And this ignores the fact that the campaign of the POTUS should not be trying to dictate to the press how to cover the news.
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Old 03-25-19, 04:26 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Shocking turn of events.
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Old 03-25-19, 04:29 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Matt Taibbi breaks down how the news media allowed the whole Russiagate story to spiral out of control and then doubled down on it as it unraveled before their eyes.

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russia...pifqTQ20bTnZ_0

Some key quotes:
Nothing Trump is accused of from now on by the press will be believed by huge chunks of the population, a group that (perhaps thanks to this story) is now larger than his original base.

There was never real gray area here. Either Trump is a compromised foreign agent, or he isn’t. If he isn’t, news outlets once again swallowed a massive disinformation campaign, only this error is many orders of magnitude more stupid than any in the recent past, WMD included. Honest reporters like ABC’s Terry Moran understand: Mueller coming back empty-handed on collusion means a “reckoning for the media.”

Of course, there won’t be such a reckoning. (There never is). But there should be. We broke every written and unwritten rule in pursuit of this story, starting with the prohibition on reporting things we can’t confirm.

This is a major structural flaw of the new fully-divided media landscape in which Republican media covers Democratic corruption and Democratic media covers Republican corruption. If neither “side” feels the need to disclose its own errors and inconsistencies, mistakes accumulate quickly.
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Old 03-25-19, 05:29 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Fucking Turtle...


No, they're definitely not trying to hide something...
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Old 03-25-19, 05:34 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

McConnell is just trolling Schumer. It's the world we live in nowadays.
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Old 03-25-19, 05:38 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Anyone know the accuracy of this? Meaning, knowing that Mueller did not reach a legal conclusion on the issue of obstruction, is it accurate that the House Judiciary Committee should be the constitutionally correct group to make or not make that conclusion, and NOT the AG himself?

https://twitter.com/emptywheel/statu...37345905893376

https://twitter.com/emptywheel/statu...37999541964802
I have been awaiting more info on this. Did Mueller want the attorney general or Congress to weigh in on obstruction? It's difficult for me to understand why Mueller would have deferred to Barr, given that 1) the purpose of a special counsel is to avoid having a political appointee make the decision and 2) Barr had arguably demonstrated bias by sending a memo about obstruction to the DOJ and White House.
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Old 03-25-19, 05:49 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Neal is a former solicitor general, the DOJ person who argues cases at the Supreme Court.

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Old 03-25-19, 05:53 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
McConnell is just trolling Schumer. It's the world we live in nowadays.
Exactly. Also, Repubs want to be the only ones controlling the narrative on this. If the people got to read it for themselves, they wouldn't be able to do that.
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