Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Old 03-23-19, 09:31 AM
  #6626  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,162
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
The assumption is that if there were a criminal conspiracy (provable beyond a reasonable doubt), then it would have involved multiple Americans, not Trump alone. That's a good assumption. The report could contain a lot of unethical and potentially illegal behavior though.

People are also forgetting the matter of obstruction of justice. This crime is literally staring us in the face. If Trump gets a pass, there is only one reason: He is the president.
When Nancy Pelosi came out last week and said it wasn't worth it to impeach Trump, do you think she said that without knowing what was coming? Nancy Pelosi is no dumb politician (she outfoxed Trump with the Government Shutdown), so she knew (probably though inside information and leaks) that this report would not be damning enough to impeach Trump, or she never would have said last week. That is why she is smart House Speaker (compared to Paul Ryan) as she is not going to bring something major to the House floor unless she knows she's got her ducks in a row. Paul Ryan and McConnell brought up repealing Obamacare and looked like fools because they didn't know the outcome (McCain's thumbs down was a prime example), as Nancy Pelosi would never put herself in that position to look foolish. Her statement on not impeaching Trump was totally calculated last week, and I'm suprised that many Democrats didn't see that probably knew the Mueller report was coming.
coli is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 09:37 AM
  #6627  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,701
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
It's not about me 'winning' as it's more about that many of you here (and in the media) thought this was the smoking gun to get rid of Trump. Your obsession with getting rid of Trump everyday is just as bad as my Republican friends in the 90's (ironically they thought Lewinsky would bring him down too). There is a reason that only 1 President has ever been forced to leave office in the history of our country, and that is because idiot Nixon taped himself! If there were no private taping system in the White House, than President Nixon stays for 2 terms.

That is why this obsession by both sides when the other party wins the Presidency is off-putting to people like me as the average American doesn't give a shit about stuff like this until there is hard evidence that justifies it. I know it's a hard pill to swallow for many of you but Trump is our President until January 20, 2021 (maybe 4 more years after that), so fucking deal with it. Again, if something is there in the Mueller Report that warrants a serious charge of impeachment than I'm all for it. But it's so hard to prove it, that you guys are just wasting your time.

I just find it odd that from day one, there is a section of this country whose only goal is to get rid of the President because they weren't happy with the election. Whoever the President is (Bush, Obama, Clinton, Trump), I support and want to succeed. I may not agree with them and will call them out when I disagree, but I do want them all to succeed as President. Sadly, there are people here who don't want Trump to succeed, just like there were people on the right who didn't want Obama to succeed. Frankly, you need to look in the mirror at your priorities in politics.
There is hard evidence of collusion. The prosecutors apparently didn't think that evidence warranted charges of criminal conspiracy.

If you don't care about deeply unethical behavior (e.g. Trump Tower Meeting, Trump Tower Moscow, etc.), YOU are the one who needs to look in the mirror. The Trump campaign knew about a foreign attack on our election and didn't report it. Instead, they accepted offers of assistance. And Trump lied to the American people about his dealings with people in Russia, including a deal that may have resulted in Putin himself sitting in the penthouse of a Trump building.

Trump is impulsive, and he has an authoritarian streak. He's dangerous. That's why people want him out of office. Just yesterday, he cancelled sanctions on North Korea because he likes Kim Jong Un, a murderous tyrant. This was less than 24 hours after the sanctions had been announced by the Treasury. Does this sound like a fine-tuned machine to you? No, Trump is just making up things as he goes, while cozying up to dictators. Oh, and he's an asshole.

P.S. How quickly you forget that Trump has been implicated in felonies. He directed his lawyer to commit felony violations of campaign finance law. He committed large-scale tax fraud, but the statutes of limitations have expired. He may have committed bank fraud by grossly inflating his wealth in an attempt to obtain loans. And if he doesn't get nailed on obstruction of justice, it's only because he's the president.
Ghostbuster is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 09:38 AM
  #6628  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 27,916
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
You cannot legally hold a POTUS liable for public commentary.

If so....

.....I am most certain the usual cartoon faces would have done something.

Also...can we say this enough...ties to Russia do not mean Russian Conspiracy. Not one vote was tainted. Nothing is there. Trump has no conspiratorial ties to Rusia. None.

Comey even said it, previous reports have said it...now Mueller's final report says it.

What possibly more could anyone want. This is Jonesville-like denial.

You say I am in denial but every report seems to echo what I say about collusion and contradicts you and others. Why is that. I also predicted there would be nothing connecting Trump to Russia. Why was I correct? Am I and Bob Mueller part of the conspiracy?

Sometimes it's good to let things go and move on. Admit you and others were played by your own party and you were lied to by the media...and you will suddenly understand how everything makes sense.
Your strawman is laughable. No one is holding Trump liable for his words. But “words” absolutely can lead to an investigation.

Lets follow your logic. HRC admited to using a private server for work related items. By your stance since they are just words she should never have been investigated. That is what your saying. Right?

Trump literally asked Russia, on TV for getting help in hacking a political opponent. He then went on TV and said “I’m serious. I’d like those emails”. Then the Russians tried to hack the DNC. That 100% wants a very serious, very complete investigation. And if that investigation leads to charges. Great. If the investigation leads to “that was just politics he clearly didn’t mean it”. Great.

Same with Comey. He literally said he fired him for Russia. Come on dude! It’s an embarrassment that the GOP didn’t conduct their own investigation. But it warrants a full investigation. If it turns out charges should be filed (or impeachment), great. If that investigation leads to “a POTUS can fire a FBI director for any reason, no charges” great.

But your our continued efforts to say this was a waste or a hoax is embarrassing.

And stop with “your party” nonsense. I’m not listening to my party. I’m listening to Trump. I didn’t listen to the Dems when they talked about her email server. I did listen to her. And just based on her words alone thought an investigation was 100% warranted. And it was investigated. And that investigation helped cause her to lose.

And again with the strawman. No one is saying a vote was changed. Stop it. But it has been documented and proved by all agencies the Russians actually did interfere with our election. Maybe you should stop listening to your party who doesn’t care about the interference since it helped them.
Sdallnct is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 09:43 AM
  #6629  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,701
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
When Nancy Pelosi came out last week and said it wasn't worth it to impeach Trump, do you think she said that without knowing what was coming? Nancy Pelosi is no dumb politician (she outfoxed Trump with the Government Shutdown), so she knew (probably though inside information and leaks) that this report would not be damning enough to impeach Trump, or she never would have said last week. That is why she is smart House Speaker (compared to Paul Ryan) as she is not going to bring something major to the House floor unless she knows she's got her ducks in a row. Paul Ryan and McConnell brought up repealing Obamacare and looked like fools because they didn't know the outcome (McCain's thumbs down was a prime example), as Nancy Pelosi would never put herself in that position to look foolish. Her statement on not impeaching Trump was totally calculated last week, and I'm suprised that many Democrats didn't see that probably knew the Mueller report was coming.
I've heard this speculation from others. Pelosi may have heard that there would be no additional charges, but I don't believe she knew any details. Trump himself cannot be charged, of course. The report could make the case for obstruction of justice, for example. By the way, the "no underlying crimes" claim is false in two ways. First, there doesn't have to be an underlying crime for a charge of obstruction. Second, there are underlying crimes, which were referred by Mueller and charged by SDNY. These crimes related to the 2016 election but not Russia.
Ghostbuster is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 09:51 AM
  #6630  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,701
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

What did people say after the email investigation? Clinton brought it on herself. It was her own fault. That's true, except for the press conference and letter by Comey. (He was ostensibly fired for that behavior, so yes, it was objectively improper.)

What do I have to say after the Russia investigation? Trump brought it on himself. It was his own fault. He surrounded himself with criminals and fools who were willing to do anything to win an election, including accepting assistance from our greatest adversary.

The DOJ/FBI was right to investigate in both instances.
Ghostbuster is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 09:56 AM
  #6631  
DVD Talk Legend
 
sracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
Posts: 12,466
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
It's not about me 'winning' as it's more about that many of you here (and in the media) thought this was the smoking gun to get rid of Trump. Your obsession with getting rid of Trump everyday is just as bad as my Republican friends in the 90's (ironically they thought Lewinsky would bring him down too). There is a reason that only 1 President has ever been forced to leave office in the history of our country, and that is because idiot Nixon taped himself! If there were no private taping system in the White House, than President Nixon stays for 2 terms.

That is why this obsession by both sides when the other party wins the Presidency is off-putting to people like me as the average American doesn't give a shit about stuff like this until there is hard evidence that justifies it. I know it's a hard pill to swallow for many of you but Trump is our President until January 20, 2021 (maybe 4 more years after that), so fucking deal with it. Again, if something is there in the Mueller Report that warrants a serious charge of impeachment than I'm all for it. But it's so hard to prove it, that you guys are just wasting your time.

I just find it odd that from day one, there is a section of this country whose only goal is to get rid of the President because they weren't happy with the election. Whoever the President is (Bush, Obama, Clinton, Trump), I support and want to succeed. I may not agree with them and will call them out when I disagree, but I do want them all to succeed as President. Sadly, there are people here who don't want Trump to succeed, just like there were people on the right who didn't want Obama to succeed. Frankly, you need to look in the mirror at your priorities in politics.
I agree with most of what you said. Where I might have a disagreement (I wouldn't know for certain without knowing what you mean by "succeed") is in wanting Trump to succeed. Succeed in what? He has said contradictory things...often in the same sentence. That's one of the tricks of the trade for con-men... tell everyone things that can be interpreted the way the hearer wants to.

I've said all along that the greatest thing that President Trump has done for this country, is something he accidentally fell into... exposing the hearts and minds of everyone and the moral bankruptcy of our government.
sracer is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 10:20 AM
  #6632  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,162
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
I've heard this speculation from others. Pelosi may have heard that there would be no additional charges, but I don't believe she knew any details. Trump himself cannot be charged, of course. The report could make the case for obstruction of justice, for example. By the way, the "no underlying crimes" claim is false in two ways. First, there doesn't have to be an underlying crime for a charge of obstruction. Second, there are underlying crimes, which were referred by Mueller and charged by SDNY. These crimes related to the 2016 election but not Russia.
It's no different than Clinton in 1998. Clinton lied under oath, he asked Lewinsky to lie in her deposition, and he/Vernon Jordan got her a job in NY to shut her up about the affair. That was all illegal, but that to me never rose to the level of impeachment, IMO. To be frank, I didn't want Clinton impeached and than removed from office because he was fucking a 21 year old intern and he lied under oath and told her to lie about it. That is the problem with throwing the 'impeachment' word around, as it is sort of loaded word.

That is what Pelosi is essentially saying, in that Trump probably did some illegal shit just like Clinton did, but are we going to put the country through a whole impeachment process to satisfy the Progressive Base of the Democrat party? I firmly believe the majority of Americans don't want ANY President impeached/removed from office unless there is a truckload of things that are warranted. They didn't want Clinton impeached and I don't believe they want Trump impeached, and Nancy knows this.
coli is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 10:39 AM
  #6633  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,701
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
It's no different than Clinton in 1998. Clinton lied under oath, he asked Lewinsky to lie in her deposition, and he/Vernon Jordan got her a job in NY to shut her up about the affair. That was all illegal, but that to me never rose to the level of impeachment, IMO. To be frank, I didn't want Clinton impeached and than removed from office because he was fucking a 21 year old intern and he lied under oath and told her to lie about it. That is the problem with throwing the 'impeachment' word around, as it is sort of loaded word.

That is what Pelosi is essentially saying, in that Trump probably did some illegal shit just like Clinton did, but are we going to put the country through a whole impeachment process to satisfy the Progressive Base of the Democrat party? I firmly believe the majority of Americans don't want ANY President impeached/removed from office unless there is a truckload of things that are warranted. They didn't want Clinton impeached and I don't believe they want Trump impeached, and Nancy knows this.
You seem to be missing that Trump committed other crimes, in addition to obstruction. Trump doesn't want people digging into his affairs because other crimes could be (actually already have been) revealed.
Ghostbuster is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 10:43 AM
  #6634  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Paul_SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the studio, mixing my metaphors
Posts: 5,997
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Well, it's only right that I come back to admit I was wrong on some major points, and take my lumps for it.

However, it's not a cop out to say that, while I was wrong in expecting certain (big) things to play out in a certain way, there is still quite a lot of stuff that we still don't know and it's still more than a little presumptuous for anyone to be reading a final verdict here on Mueller's declining further indictments.

I've been trying for a while now to be a little more circumspect, so I'll just keep it at that for now.
But I will stand here for a few minutes while anyone that wants to, can go grab their stash of eggs and rotten vegetables.
Just watch the eyes, I need 'em for work.
Paul_SD is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 10:57 AM
  #6635  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
joeblow69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Palm Springs
Posts: 8,051
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
Well, it's only right that I come back to admit I was wrong on some major points, and take my lumps for it.
We can always cling to that old adage that: Just because they weren't able to find conclusive proof of it, doesn't mean it didn't happen!
joeblow69 is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 11:21 AM
  #6636  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Paul_SD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the studio, mixing my metaphors
Posts: 5,997
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
We can always cling to that old adage that: Just because they weren't able to find conclusive proof of it, doesn't mean it didn't happen!
Except that my central premise was that Obama's DoJ was on to Trump from the start and when Comey was fired, it was an anticipated move to generate a SCO which would
1) provide an investigatory safe space, outside the reach of the Trump admin, from which they could gather and coalesce admissible evidence- as opposed to the classified evidence they already possessed
and 2) be seen as an unimpeachable, non partisan authority voice.

It's still possible that when Mueller seeded out material they'd compiled to the eleven other investigations that are still ongoing, that it was simply a matter of still trying to keep things out of the reach of overwhelming broad executive powers (i.e pardons and such).
But I admit, not impossible doesn't necessarily = more likely.

Even when the report is released, the fat lady ain't gone be done singing. One thing I did always say that still holds up is that it's going to be a while even after the big events have already occurred, before we are able to understand just exactly what has gone down. For the Trump supporters that want to believe this is just Democrats acting in a typically politically venal and partisan way, this preliminary resolution here does little to slow their roll.
Paul_SD is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 11:42 AM
  #6637  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Spiderbite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 13,192
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

I just don't get all the crowing by Fox News, Republicans and Trump supporters. The report hasn't been released. Just because there aren't more coming indictments means that everything was a-ok and the whole thing was a waste? What planet are we living on? So bizarre.

I will say that if the report is never released or it comes out heavily redacted, then it will forever stain this administration (though not like they care about that).

And aren't there several sealed indictments that are waiting in the wings or have they all been delivered?

The assumption that this is all over is kinda insane to me.
Spiderbite is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 11:51 AM
  #6638  
DVD Talk Hero
 
davidh777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Home of 2013 NFL champion Seahawks
Posts: 40,678
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
It's not about me 'winning' as it's more about that many of you here (and in the media) thought this was the smoking gun to get rid of Trump. Your obsession with getting rid of Trump everyday is just as bad as my Republican friends in the 90's (ironically they thought Lewinsky would bring him down too). There is a reason that only 1 President has ever been forced to leave office in the history of our country, and that is because idiot Nixon taped himself! If there were no private taping system in the White House, than President Nixon stays for 2 terms.

That is why this obsession by both sides when the other party wins the Presidency is off-putting to people like me as the average American doesn't give a shit about stuff like this until there is hard evidence that justifies it. I know it's a hard pill to swallow for many of you but Trump is our President until January 20, 2021 (maybe 4 more years after that), so fucking deal with it. Again, if something is there in the Mueller Report that warrants a serious charge of impeachment than I'm all for it. But it's so hard to prove it, that you guys are just wasting your time.

I just find it odd that from day one, there is a section of this country whose only goal is to get rid of the President because they weren't happy with the election. Whoever the President is (Bush, Obama, Clinton, Trump), I support and want to succeed. I may not agree with them and will call them out when I disagree, but I do want them all to succeed as President. Sadly, there are people here who don't want Trump to succeed, just like there were people on the right who didn't want Obama to succeed. Frankly, you need to look in the mirror at your priorities in politics.
I disagree. Following his surprisingly gracious election-night speech, I was willing to give him a chance. Too bad he immediately turned things into shit and never stopped. (And we now know that anything gracious was written by someone else.)
davidh777 is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 12:18 PM
  #6639  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Home again, Big D
Posts: 27,916
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

I don’t agree with the response of people just trying to get rid of Trump because of being sore losers. That’s total abs complete BS.

Using Trumps own words. Using Trumps own actions was MORE than enough to warrant an investigation.

Look at it this way, if I walk into a policy station and say I committed a murder, are they just going to throw me in jail? Get ready for a trial? Of course not. They will fully investigate my claim and then proceed as to the outcome of that investigation.
Sdallnct is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 12:30 PM
  #6640  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Bronkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AnaheimLand, SoCal
Posts: 14,749
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

I'm not nearly as concerned about "getting rid of Trump" as I am about what possible influence Russia had in our election, which is what I thought the report was about.
Bronkster is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 01:47 PM
  #6641  
DVD Talk Legend
 
dsa_shea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 19,350
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Yes, those in power have seemingly turned a blind eye to the effect Russia and other powers can have on our elections and the policies or removal of policies that can then follow those elections. We all know Trump is a shithead and his daily actions show that. If people want to idolize or deify him then more power to them. I feel sorry for them.
dsa_shea is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 02:05 PM
  #6642  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Michael Corvin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 56,828
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Okay, so...

1. Muller report is submitted to Barr

2. Report is fully private and awaiting public release, in some capacity, at direction of Barr. Perhaps in a day or so

3. [Nothing???]

4. "MUELLER REPORT IS DUD." "TRUMP WAS RIGHT."
I'd much rather see:

1. Muller report is submitted to Barr

2. Report is fully private and awaiting public release, in some capacity, at direction of Barr. Perhaps in a day or so

3. [Nothing???]

4. Monday morning - "Trump announces his resignation."
Michael Corvin is online now  
Old 03-23-19, 02:42 PM
  #6643  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Red Hood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 3,930
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Donnie has been strangely silent over the past 24 hours, so the report must have something. It's not normal at all that this guy who loves to tweet about anything that he perceives as a victory (whether it is or not), hasn't tweeted or said something about the report and his "innocence".
Red Hood is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 02:45 PM
  #6644  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Bronkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AnaheimLand, SoCal
Posts: 14,749
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Red Hood View Post
Donnie has been strangely silent over the past 24 hours, so the report must have something. It's not normal at all that this guy who loves to tweet about anything that he perceives as a victory (whether it is or not), hasn't tweeted or said something about the report and his "innocence".
Or .... the shitstain fancies itself a "showman", and is intentionally withholding tweets knowing that it builds anticipation and speculation so it can later come out and say "NO COLLUSION!"
Bronkster is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 03:23 PM
  #6645  
DVD Talk Hero
 
slop101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 38,815
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

This delay certainly makes it seem more of a complicated issue than not...


You know, this leads me to think that maybe impeachment and removal is still actually on the table. Not likely, but on the table. Everyone who saw the evidence, even GOPers, sobered up real quick.
This is a big point. This is the shit that ran Chaffetz and Gowdy out of the House because they could not reconcile having to deal with this. Whatever they learned was too much for them to stomach as a partisan hack and yet they were too hacky to own their responsibility to deal with it.

Speaking of hacky shit, look at this hacky shit...

slop101 is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 04:00 PM
  #6646  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cultshock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: True North Strong & Free
Posts: 11,515
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Hmm, what's the opposite of "classy"? Because this is totally that, yuck.
cultshock is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 04:34 PM
  #6647  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: MA
Posts: 5,007
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Lets not forget why we sometimes refer to him as Individual One... or unindicted Co-conspirator. The fact that McTrump is not gloating on twitter tells me there is something at play we don't know about yet.
jpcamb is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 05:01 PM
  #6648  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,701
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Trump and his lawyers and lackeys are surely trying to prevent any potentially damaging info in the report from being revealed by Barr. When Trump said, "Let people see it," he meant it in the same sense as his taxes.
Ghostbuster is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 05:08 PM
  #6649  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,701
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Ghostbuster is offline  
Old 03-23-19, 05:09 PM
  #6650  
DVD Talk Legend
 
E Unit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Behind Wolf in the Situation Room
Posts: 12,250
Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

I'm guessing this may be the last quiet weekend he has before all hell breaks loose starting next week.
E Unit is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.