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Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Old 02-28-19, 08:02 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
Yes, the Gaddafi gave up his arsenal in 2003 when NOBODY thought he was as he was a Murderous Dictator and an enemy of us for many years.

https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/LibyaChronology
I get the feeling you don't remember how things went down with Gaddafi? He step down all nice and peacefully for the betterment of Libyans?
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Old 02-28-19, 08:08 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

"Trump, come!"
"Sit!"
"Speak!"
"Go back to your place!"

I didn't think that anything good would come of these summits. I felt a little wisp of hope, but North Korea has a history of jerking people around and breaking agreements. Kim is a ruler of a country with a GDP a little smaller than Botswana. The President of the US should not have gone trotting over there just because Kim offered him free cookies.
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Old 02-28-19, 08:08 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
Actually, you are talking about the Neo-Con wing of the Republican Party, or the #NeverTrumpers. They did bury Obama for 8 years for wanting to talk to Dictators and they are hammering Trump for doing the same, as I see Bill Kristol, Nicole Wallace, Steve Schmidt, etc all over the MSNBC/CNN over the past few days railing on Trump. Here's the thing, they don't have a place in the Republican Party anymore so you guys can have them (you seem to love quoting them when they bury Trump as you call them the Republicans with a conscious). The fucking Neo-Cons are everything I hate about the Establishment Republicans as they LOVE to go to War with other people's kids, and their first hunch is to overthrow the Dictators or use force. If the Neo-Cons were still in power, we would probably be more involved in Syria, as they've wanted regime change there going back to Obama. Yes, there are still the John Bolton's in the administration, but even he has toned it down if he wants to be a part of this administration.

That is why I just don't why people are going apeshit about Trump meeting Kim Jong Un? Chances are nothing is going to come off the meeting, but that's still better than the threat of them bombing South Korea or even lobbing missiles at us. I watch the news (and even read comments here) and people seem to be hoping that Trump fucks up, and that is just odd to me. The partisan shit that goes on domestically is understandable (becasue of ideology), but we should be behind the President when it comes to something like this and hope he or she succeeds. I wasn't mad when Obama captured (not literally) Bin Laden as it was a great moment for the country, and I didn't give a shit who took credit for it.
For such a peaceful president there sure as shit is a whole lot of warmongering going on over Venezuela. Trump doesn’t care about peace, he cares about what gets him the most headlines or the most money.
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Old 02-28-19, 08:13 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Anyone who thinks Trump is interested in peace with NK more than being friends with his “love” Kim Jong Un isn’t paying attention.

Trump loves dictators because they get to act the way he wants to but our government is (just barely) still keeping him in check. I actually think Captain Bone Spurs is too much of a chicken to actually follow through on his threats (like when he backs down whenever anyone gets the chance to confront him) but in his mind he would love it if he could murder a few journalists and critics. He gets to live vicariously through Kim, Putin and the rest.
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Old 02-28-19, 08:14 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
I get the feeling you don't remember how things went down with Gaddafi? He step down all nice and peacefully for the betterment of Libyans?
I always thought we should have had his back when he was eventually ousted cause it's better to know the Dictator, than not know the next Dictator. I'm not apologizing for whatever the guy did as he was a brutal dictator, (that is the problem with Neo-Cons and some on the Left is that they look at Foreign Policy/Dictators as black and white, and everything is a shade of grey). There are alot of bad people running the world and you can't go around take them all out because it's not practicle (That is my main beef with Neo-Cons), and the alternative could be worse than the Dictator who is playing ball with you. If we can get Kim Jong Un to play ball with us (From a certain point of view), that's a whole lot better than taking him out militarily, having regime change, and than having NO IDEA who takes his place.

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post


For such a peaceful president there sure as shit is a whole lot of warmongering going on over Venezuela. Trump doesn’t care about peace, he cares about what gets him the most headlines or the most money.
So, do you want to get involved in a Venezuelan civil war with our Military? Were you for getting involved in the Syrian Civil War? You do your best to support the Anti-Maduro crowd in Venezuela, but I wouldn't be for sending troops there.
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Old 02-28-19, 08:17 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
I always thought we should have had his back when he was eventually ousted cause it's better to know the Dictator, than not know the next Dictator. I'm not apologizing for whatever the guy did as he was a brutal dictator, (that is the problem with Neo-Cons and some on the Left is that they look at Foreign Policy/Dictators as black and white, and everything is a shade of grey). There are alot of bad people running the world and you can't go around take them all out because it's not practicle (That is my main beef with Neo-Cons), and the alternative could be worse than the Dictator who is playing ball with you. If we can get Kim Jong Un to play ball with us (From a certain point of view), that's a whole lot better than taking him out militarily, having regime change, and than having NO IDEA who takes his place.
Please describe Kim "playing ball with us". You think anything Trump could/would have said would result in him dropping his nuclear program? Release his grip on keeping his people in the dark regarding the world around them? Allow people to leave and go to S Korea? Stop murdering anyone who is vocal against him? Stop starving his people while he and his gang are fat and happy?
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Old 02-28-19, 08:30 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
So, do you want to get involved in a Venezuelan civil war with our Military? Were you for getting involved in the Syrian Civil War? You do your best to support the Anti-Maduro crowd in Venezuela, but I wouldn't be for sending troops there.
You must have me confused with someone else. I do not support any US intervention in Venezuela, nor any US military intervention.
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Old 02-28-19, 08:38 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Trump is being played. Trump is being played by Putin and Kim. He just has no clue he is being played. Both leaders are getting exactly what they want. And have given up nothing to get it.
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Old 02-28-19, 08:40 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Trump is being played. Trump is being played by Putin and Kim. He just has no clue he is being played. Both leaders are getting exactly what they want. And have given up nothing to get it.
That's what happens when the dumbest person in the room thinks they're the smartest person in the room.
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Old 02-28-19, 08:57 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

I think at the end of the day, NK is going to remain a nuclear state. There is no way to get them to give up their nuclear weapons, short of war. And nobody wants to go to war over this. NK sees their nukes are a guarantor of regime survival. Can the US live with a nuclear NK and bring them into the international fold? I don't know. But given our foreign policy towards NK for the past 65 years, whichever President decides to change that policy and drop our demands of NK, they will face quite the backlash domestically from that change in course because it signals US weakness. The real concern, either way, is NK exporting their nukes to even worse players on the global scene. Whether we strike a deal or not, that possibility is always there.
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Old 02-28-19, 09:01 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Wouldn't shock me if the whole damn trip was about the 30 mins alone with Kim to get his orders from Putin via Kim.
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Old 02-28-19, 09:11 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Nefarious View Post
Wouldn't shock me if the whole damn trip was about the 30 mins alone with Kim to get his orders from Putin via Kim.
I'm sure Putin has secure channels coming into Jared and Ivanka. He doesn't need Kim Jung Un to pass his requests to Trump.
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Old 02-28-19, 09:35 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
That's what happens when the dumbest person in the room thinks they're the smartest person in the room.
...and is elected President. Because of some emails, apparently.
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Old 02-28-19, 09:40 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
...and is elected President. Because of some emails, apparently.
Not just any emails... HER emails!!!
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Old 02-28-19, 09:43 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

I thought this was an interesting article from The Guardian about Presidential body language. I think the author might be reading a bit too much into it, but the stark contrasts between Obama and Trump on the foreign policy stage need to be mentioned again and again:

Guardian Article

Pete Souza's best photograph: Obama lays into Putin

Spoiler:



I wasn’t supposed to be here for this picture. It was taken on the 70th anniversary of the Normandy landings – all the heads of state had gathered there and were coming out of an impromptu luncheon. The official photographers from each country had been kicked out – we were all supposed to leave the building. But I have a knack of making myself small and sticking around.

The shot shows the kind of interaction President Obama had with President Putin during his tenure. It was 2014, a particularly tense time between the two countries. You can see in the facial expressions and gestures that this was a very serious conversation. There are interpreters stood behind them, but I get the impression from Putin’s face that he understood exactly what was being said in English.

I was within earshot. I can’t recount specifically what they said, but I knew the subject matter. Can I say what it was? It was about … some of Russia’s actions in the world. Let’s leave it at that.

This conversation went on for a while: they weren’t thinking about me. To them, I was just one of many people in the room, coming and going in different directions. I started out shooting horizontally and tighter, and then switched to vertical, backing up to show their entire bodies. Compositionally, that seemed to show the body language better. I took 1.9 million photos during my time as White House photographer. I had my cameras on me every day for eight years
I first met Obama on his very first day in the US senate in 2005. I was impressed by the way he interacted with people, not just on the podium but on a one-to-one level. And from a photographer’s standpoint, I saw right away how comfortable he was in the presence of a camera. I could be in some pretty intimate situations with him and me being there with a camera didn’t seem to bother him at all.

I would tell friends that I was photographing a senator who was going to become the president of the United States. But on other occasions I’d see him deliver these long-winded answers during town hall meetings and wonder if he really had it in him. He was so policy-oriented that he would sometimes give 10- or 15-minute answers when people wanted a quicker response. I sensed he was losing some people, but he got better at that over time.

I call our relationship a professional friendship. I don’t go to his house for dinner with him and Michelle, but I would get invited to the holiday party that he has for his office. How would I describe him? I’d say he was intelligent and very disciplined – about work, exercise, diet. And he’s very competitive in all aspects of his life. We’d do these long flights on Air Force One where we would play the card game Spades and he would be really competitive. That’s just his nature.

I took 1.9m photos in my time as White House photographer. I was with my cameras at the White House every day for essentially eight years. I wasn’t photographing every second of every day, but I was always ready to. The stressful aspect was not the job but its effect on my personal life, because I felt I always needed to be with Obama. You never know when history is going to take place. So for eight years my personal life was on hold. By the time his presidency ended I was worn out. What you see with Trump is the reality show, with the whole press corps there. You don't get any unguarded moments

I also worked as White House photographer for Ronald Reagan. That was a different era. I was a young man, Reagan was in his 70s and I didn’t know him that well. I didn’t have the same sort of access that I had with Obama. We were shooting film and there was no such thing as social media. And Reagan was just a different type of person – very formal, didn’t do nearly as much – and so my coverage wasn’t nearly as exhaustive.

I’ve noticed how you don’t see any behind-the-scenes photographs of Trump. What you see is the reality show – a cabinet meeting or oval office meeting where the entire press corps is there the whole time. I don’t feel like there are any unguarded moments.

Obviously the investigations into Russian collusion gives this picture an extra layer of meaning. It shows the way you should interact with the president of Russia. It should be tense. Trump still does not acknowledge that Putin is the guy who directed people to meddle with our election. Instead, he interacts with him as if they’re best friends. This is our adversary, and this is the way you should talk to an adversary.
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Old 02-28-19, 09:54 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

It is very different to see how Obama was photographed and how Trump was photographed. I think I read something early on in Trump's Presidency that a lot of pics of him are from smartphone cameras - that's why everything is eye-level and about 20 feet away and flat and boring.

You never see Trump being funny or kind or "real" - just one of the many many reasons he's a terrible example of a leader.
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Old 02-28-19, 09:54 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Speaking of body language, Pompeo's says it all today. Meanwhile Trump exudes total misguided confidence.

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Old 02-28-19, 10:13 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
I always thought we should have had his back when he was eventually ousted cause it's better to know the Dictator, than not know the next Dictator. I'm not apologizing for whatever the guy did as he was a brutal dictator, (that is the problem with Neo-Cons and some on the Left is that they look at Foreign Policy/Dictators as black and white, and everything is a shade of grey). There are alot of bad people running the world and you can't go around take them all out because it's not practicle (That is my main beef with Neo-Cons), and the alternative could be worse than the Dictator who is playing ball with you. If we can get Kim Jong Un to play ball with us (From a certain point of view), that's a whole lot better than taking him out militarily, having regime change, and than having NO IDEA who takes his place.

So, do you want to get involved in a Venezuelan civil war with our Military? Were you for getting involved in the Syrian Civil War? You do your best to support the Anti-Maduro crowd in Venezuela, but I wouldn't be for sending troops there.


For those who are into the US continuing on with regime change, what are those regime changes that resulted in better conditions for the people of that nation?

Not to mention that every regime change endeavor starts out with lies to justify it.
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Old 02-28-19, 10:26 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

So as with the saudis he’s taking Kim’s word that he didn’t know about Warmbier until much later.
Always trust the dictator.

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Old 02-28-19, 10:30 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by BDB View Post
So as with the saudis he’s taking Kim’s word that he didn’t know about Warmbier until much later.
Always trust the dictator.

Even Rick Santorum called this reprehensible. Gee Rick, you think defending Trump night after night on CNN might not be a good thing?

Rick Santorum is furious over Trump's 'reprehensible' Otto Warmbier comments

10:00 a.m.
President Trump coming to the defense of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un over the death of Otto Warmbier has left Rick Santorum fuming.The former Republican senator told CNN on Thursday that although he's happy with Trump walking away from a deal at the Vietnam summit, his comments on the American student who died after being detained in North Korea were "reprehensible."
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Old 02-28-19, 10:34 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
...and is elected President. Because of some emails, apparently.
I know you LOVVVVE sarcasm (You should change your name to Mr. Draven Sarcasm in Every Post, but emails is not the reason that Hillary lost in 2016. You can blame her base for not showing up (The Susan Sarandon's of the world either voted for Jill Stein or stayed home) and alot of that was how they screwed Bernie in the Primary with the Superdelegates. Many Bernie supporters felt burned (no pun intended) by the Democrat Establishment cause they thought it was rigged from day one for Hillary. For example, Hillary lost by 11,000 votes to Trump in Michigan (a state that Bernie won in the Primary) while Jill Stein got 51,000 votes which would have clearly gone to Hillary. For context, Jill Stein only got 21,000 votes in 2012 when Obama was running, so she increased 30,000 for 2016 (which would have given Hillary Michigan).
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Old 02-28-19, 10:41 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

I wonder if more is going to come out on Warmbier. I'm starting to get into Paul SD territory with the conspiracies, but I thought it was EXTREMELY odd that no autopsy was ever performed on him. I would have thought it would be ordered regardless of family wishes to determine what exactly happened to him in NK. I almost think it was like a condition of release. Like I said though, that gets into conspiracy theory territory. But with the result of the Vietnam summit, it's starting to sound more plausible.
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Old 02-28-19, 10:43 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by coli View Post
I know you LOVVVVE sarcasm (You should change your name to Mr. Draven Sarcasm in Every Post, but emails is not the reason that Hillary lost in 2016. You can blame her base for not showing up (The Susan Sarandon's of the world either voted for Jill Stein or stayed home) and alot of that was how they screwed Bernie in the Primary with the Superdelegates. Many Bernie supporters felt burned (no pun intended) by the Democrat Establishment cause they thought it was rigged from day one for Hillary. For example, Hillary lost by 11,000 votes to Trump in Michigan (a state that Bernie won in the Primary) while Jill Stein got 51,000 votes which would have clearly gone to Hillary. For context, Jill Stein only got 21,000 votes in 2012 when Obama was running, so she increased 30,000 for 2016 (which would have given Hillary Michigan).
It wasn't about angry Bernie bros or whatever here. Trump flipped Democrats that don't like free trade / NAFTA / TPP.
Trump got our votes here in Michigan by basically running anti-free-trade and pretending he'd bring back manufacturing jobs.

There's a lot of grumpy people here that blame NAFTA for the rust belt's issues.

Hillary was a known establishment free-trade type Democrat and her name is tied to NAFTA along with Clinton.

Now. I might work for a big auto company, and come from originally rosy red rural Michigan, but it's not just my opinion:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...an-gary-peters
Senator Gary Peters:
Trump’s talk about TPP was certainly important for union members who have been impacted by trade deals. We have seen the erosion of jobs and employment in Michigan. The trade deals, the way they have been written in the past, have really hurt many workers here, so that message has certainly resonated very powerfully. Secretary Clinton said that she would not support TPP, but my personal experience in union halls is that a lot of people didn’t believe her.

Part of the reason that she didn’t have much credibility with some union members is that her husband was a supporter of NAFTA, and there's strong negative feelings about NAFTA in union halls across the state. The fact that her husband pushed NAFTA made it difficult for her to put out a message that she too would be opposed to these kinds of trade deals in the future.
Bernie ran anti-free trade as well. He might have taken MI where Trump lost it, because he might not have lost those anti-trade voters to Trump like Hillary did.
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Old 02-28-19, 10:54 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Even Rick Santorum called this reprehensible. Gee Rick, you think defending Trump night after night on CNN might not be a good thing?

Rick Santorum is furious over Trump's 'reprehensible' Otto Warmbier comments

10:00 a.m.
President Trump coming to the defense of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un over the death of Otto Warmbier has left Rick Santorum fuming.The former Republican senator told CNN on Thursday that although he's happy with Trump walking away from a deal at the Vietnam summit, his comments on the American student who died after being detained in North Korea were "reprehensible."
The way Trump defends things like this, I hope people finally get he doesn’t care about anyone. At all. He only cares about a people that support him AND that helps him.

Insults Gold Star families and Americans veterans. Makes sure Texas is taken care of after a hurricane, but ccoulldnt find Porto Rico on a map. Dismissed the death of a reporter (living in the US) who was dismembered

The Summit should not have taken place for lots of reasons. One of those reasons is the death of an American Citizen with no reasonable explanation.

Its pathetically insulting for Trump to make shit up tor NK “there are lots of bad people”. WTF?

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Old 02-28-19, 10:55 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 3

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey View Post
It wasn't about angry Bernie bros or whatever here. Trump flipped Democrats that don't like free trade / NAFTA / TPP.
Trump got our votes here in Michigan by basically running anti-free-trade and pretending he'd bring back manufacturing jobs.

.
Wait, Trump flipped Obama voters? I thought everyone who voted for Trump was a fucking racist/idiot/moron/sexist/bigoted asshole as many of you here (not specifically you) constantly state. So there are some racist/idiot/moron/sexist/bigoted voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012?
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