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Migrants from Central America

Old 05-01-18, 09:29 AM
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Migrants from Central America

Question for you all. I come as unbiased but curious on all your thoughts.

So seeking asylum isn't a crime. They can come to the US and seek it. Doesn't mean the US has to accept it but we would have to hear them out first.

But the question i have is, why not just go to Mexico or Colombia or anywhere else. Why just the US?
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Old 05-01-18, 09:31 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Mexico is so bad I think they prey on these people as they pass through. No one would want to live in Mexico.
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Old 05-01-18, 10:00 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Mexico is so bad I think they prey on these people as they pass through. No one would want to live in Mexico.
ok then how about Colombia or anywhere else?
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Old 05-01-18, 10:17 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

We have the most open system for allowing them. Most countries aren’t welcoming.

Mexico has laws that restrict Americans from purchasing homes in certain areas. Can you imagine the opposite? American laws that told Mexicans where they could own a home?
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Old 05-01-18, 10:35 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
We have the most open system for allowing them. Most countries arenít welcoming.

Mexico has laws that restrict Americans from purchasing homes in certain areas. Can you imagine the opposite? American laws that told Mexicans where they could own a home?
I don't think anyone that is not a citizen can own land in Mexico though. You can probably purchase a home but not the land it lies on. They get around it with 99 year leases or something like that.

It is surprising to me how people from other countries pile on the US for having unreasonable immigration policies when the vast majority of other countries, if not all of them, have much harder roads to citizenship than we do, and much stricter immigration policies.
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Old 05-01-18, 10:39 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I don't think anyone that is not a citizen can own land in Mexico though. You can probably purchase a home but not the land it lies on. They get around it with 99 year leases or something like that.

It is surprising to me how people from other countries pile on the US for having unreasonable immigration policies when the vast majority of other countries, if not all of them, have much harder roads to citizenship than we do, and much stricter immigration policies.
well thats what i am getting at. I mean we should be giving them a shot since it is for asylum as opposed to just coming for the hell of it. And we cant just turn them around because our laws prohibit this.

But the thing i have is, why just the US?
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Old 05-01-18, 10:44 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
well thats what i am getting at. I mean we should be giving them a shot since it is for asylum as opposed to just coming for the hell of it. And we cant just turn them around because our laws prohibit this.

But the thing i have is, why just the US?
Are you asking why they want to come to the US or why other countries don't accept them?

If it's the former, I think the US, if you can get asylum, and probably even if you can't but can sneak in, is still seen as one of the best places to start from nothing. You'll never get to the 1% that way (or it would be extremely difficult) but you could still get to a position where you're not in abject poverty as measured by the rest of the world.
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Old 05-01-18, 10:48 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I don't think anyone that is not a citizen can own land in Mexico though. You can probably purchase a home but not the land it lies on. They get around it with 99 year leases or something like that.

It is surprising to me how people from other countries pile on the US for having unreasonable immigration policies when the vast majority of other countries, if not all of them, have much harder roads to citizenship than we do, and much stricter immigration policies.
I looked it up. It's more complicated than that.

CAN FOREIGNERS REALLY OWN PROPERTY IN MEXICO?
Yes, Americans and other foreigners may obtain direct ownership of property in the interior of Mexico. However, under Mexican law, foreigners cannot own property outright within the restricted zone.
THE RESTRICTED ZONE AND "FIDEICOMISOS"
The law declares that the Mexican nation has original ownership to all land and water in Mexico, as well as minerals, salts, ore deposits, natural gas and oil; but that such ownership may be assigned to individuals.

The Mexican Constitution prohibits direct ownership of real estate by foreigners in what has come to be known as the "restricted zone." The restricted zone encompasses all land located within 100 kilometers (about 62 miles) of any Mexican border, and within 50 kilometers (about 31 miles) of any Mexican coastline. However, in order to permit foreign investment in these areas, the Mexican government created the "fideicomiso," (FEE-DAY-E-CO-ME-SO) which is, roughly translated, a real estate trust. Essentially, this type of trust is similar to trusts set up in the United States, but a Mexican bank must be designated as the trustee and, as such, has title to the property and is the owner of record. The Mexican Government created the "fideicomiso" to reconcile the problems involved in developing the restricted zone and to attract foreign capital. This enabled foreigners, as beneficiaries of the trusts, to enjoy unrestricted use of land located in the restricted zone without violating the law.
http://www.mexonline.com/propmex.htm

In my state, you don't get the mineral rights or the water rights when you buy land, either.

It's 1100 miles from El Paso to Mexico City. The first 63 miles are restricted.

Last edited by Nick Danger; 05-01-18 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 05-01-18, 10:54 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by raven56706 View Post
ok then how about Colombia or anywhere else?
How do you know that some don't? Obviously we're focusing on the ones coming here.
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Old 05-01-18, 10:59 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Mexico is so bad I think they prey on these people as they pass through. No one would want to live in Mexico.
Pretty small minded statement. Plenty of people want to live in Mexico.
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Old 05-01-18, 11:12 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
How do you know that some don't? Obviously we're focusing on the ones coming here.
Yup, it just isn't newsworthy here. Chile, for example, is a major recipient of migrants from other Latin American countries, most especially from Venezuela and Haiti. They have been somewhat welcoming due to their own aging population, but from what I am reading they are starting to slowly turn off the taps themselves.
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Old 05-01-18, 11:48 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
How do you know that some don't? Obviously we're focusing on the ones coming here.
Yes, and the question was why the ones coming here travel all the way through Mexico to get here rather than simply stopping in Mexico. If they're truly seeking asylum from their government, they can apply for asylum in Mexico. As someone else asked, why the United States? That makes it appear that at least part of what they are seeking is the place offering the most advantages...which is what other immigrants waiting in line are doing.

Isn't the culture and language most generally spoken in Mexico more similar to the culture and language in Guatemala?

Last edited by creekdipper; 05-01-18 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 05-01-18, 11:55 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
Yup, it just isn't newsworthy here. Chile, for example, is a major recipient of migrants from other Latin American countries, most especially from Venezuela and Haiti. They have been somewhat welcoming due to their own aging population, but from what I am reading they are starting to slowly turn off the taps themselves.
Gotta make Chile great again.

Chile is used to welcoming migrants. But Haitians donít always get a warm reception

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nati...202589599.html

As Chile becomes a leading destination for migrants from Haiti, the Dominican Republic and South American countries with black populations, the surge in migrant arrivals is giving rise to concerns about xenophobia and growing racism in a society that has long regarded itself as not just white, but whiter than most other Latin American countries.
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Old 05-01-18, 11:58 AM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

It seems like Mexico did have a policy to naturalize Guatemalan refugees, but that ended and they are basically set up in "concentration camps." (I tried to find an article that doesn't have a partisan side. This one talks about draconian US policies but doesn't seem to be politically aimed):

https://theconversation.com/us-and-m...in-limbo-74497

Since its founding, the Mexican government actively promoted immigration policies that favored entrance of white immigrants from Europe. The Mexican government also encouraged out-migration during the 20th century, fueled by U.S. policies and labor demand. These immigration policies informed how the Mexican government received Guatemalan refugees.

A year before the war in Guatemala ended, the Mexican government announced a naturalization program, but it wasn’t until 2001 that Mexico reduced requirements for legal entry and provided temporary visas to Guatemalan refugees. The travel and employment restrictions on these visas, however, compounded poverty among refugees. Research has shown that bureaucratic mismanagement undermined the Mexican legalization program. The departure of NGOs and humanitarian agencies who were supporting refugees decreased political pressure on the Mexican state to support refugees. Thus, the government ended the legalization program in 2005.

Violence and insecurity in Guatemala since the war is still pushing people to flee, and prevents many who fled during the war from returning.
The article also claims (and references another article) that Mexico has deported 165,000 people from Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador in 2015 because of US foreign policy, though I haven't really read through why the "blame" falls on the US.
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Old 05-01-18, 12:06 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
The article also claims (and references another article) that Mexico has deported 165,000 people from Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador in 2015 because of US foreign policy, though I haven't really read through why the "blame" falls on the US.
That's easy.

We're the U.S.
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Old 05-01-18, 12:09 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Yes, and the question was why the ones coming here travel all the way through Mexico to get here rather than simply stopping in Mexico. If they're truly seeking asylum from their government, they can apply for asylum in Mexico. As someone else asked, why the United States? That makes it appear that at least part of what they are seeking is the place offering the most advantages...which is what other immigrants waiting in line are doing.

Isn't the culture and language most generally spoken in Mexico more similar to the culture and language in Guatemala?
I don't know. Maybe they'd rather live here? I'd rather live in Minnesota than Missouri, though I speak the same language.
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Old 05-01-18, 12:11 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
That's easy.

We're the U.S.
I mean, it is possible that we asked the Mexican government to stop the flow of immigrants from the south, but I think it's more likely that the hardening of our southern border (or the perception of it) has left many people who would otherwise have made it into the US stay in Mexico and Mexico wants no part of that. I don't really know.

It still seems odd to me that the Mexican government basically acknowledges that a lot of their poorer citizens (not refugees from other countries) try to illegally cross the border, but does little to stop it, does practically nothing domestically to improve their situations (feel free to cite articles that dispute this, I'd actually be happy to read them), and actually complains when the US deports them.
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Old 05-01-18, 12:13 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Yes, and the question was why the ones coming here travel all the way through Mexico to get here rather than simply stopping in Mexico.
Because weíre the best.
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Old 05-01-18, 12:17 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Plenty of people want to live in Mexico.
Yeah, rich people. But I didn't think that was what we were discussing. No poor refuge would chose Mexico over America.

Fun fact: My parents actually considered having me be born in Mexico to attain dual citizenship so they (me really) could buy Mexican beach property.

Another fun fact: I know a guy that actually did this in the '90s.
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Old 05-01-18, 12:28 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I don't know. Maybe they'd rather live here? I'd rather live in Minnesota than Missouri, though I speak the same language.
Of course they'd rather live here (although if the U.S. is such a hotbed of racism and discrimination portrayed in these pages, perhaps they'd better be advised to go to those progressive countries who will welcome them with open arms).

The idea of seeking asylum, though, makes it appear that even if that is their primary motivation, they also have an eye for using that as an excuse to be fast-tracked ahead of others seeking a better way of life in America.
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Old 05-01-18, 12:36 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Gotta make Chile great again.

Chile is used to welcoming migrants. But Haitians donít always get a warm reception
That was part of the gist of the article I read a few weeks ago on the topic as well. The Venezuelans were having an easier time integrating that than the Haitians, Dominicans, etc. Of course, language is going to be part of the issue as well, at least with Haitians.

Haitian refugees quickly became unwelcome in the Dominican Republic as well back in 2011-2012, honestly. I remember more recent articles about large numbers of Haitians living along the Mexican border with the U.S. as well, trying to get in. Some had originally fled to Brazil after the earthquake and then migrated all the way up through Central America to Mexico later on. That's insane.
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Old 05-01-18, 12:38 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Yeah, rich people. But I didn't think that was what we were discussing. No poor refuge would chose Mexico over America.

Fun fact: My parents actually considered having me be born in Mexico to attain dual citizenship so they (me really) could buy Mexican beach property.

Another fun fact: I know a guy that actually did this in the '90s.
I didn't realize Mexico also has citizenship by jus soli. How does that work, you're born in Mexico but then can become naturalized in the US because your parents are citizens?

Also, I can't believe they were willing to sacrifice your chances of becoming President of the United States (which I realize at this point is a step down from many professions).
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Old 05-01-18, 12:55 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
Also, I can't believe they were willing to sacrifice your chances of becoming President of the United States (which I realize at this point is a step down from many professions).
Dual citizens can be President and while, theoretically, the question of whether a U.S. citizen born outside of the U.S. meets the otherwise undefined "natural-born" citizen Constitutional requirement, I am pretty comfortable in my belief that if someone born on foreign soil who was a U.S. citizen from birth won the Presidential election, the courts would uphold it. It certainly didn't stop Ted Cruz from running for President.
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Old 05-01-18, 01:08 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I didn't realize Mexico also has citizenship by jus soli. How does that work, you're born in Mexico but then can become naturalized in the US because your parents are citizens?

Also, I can't believe they were willing to sacrifice your chances of becoming President of the United States (which I realize at this point is a step down from many professions).
We've had candidates born in Panama and shit. They'll let anyone be president.
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Old 05-01-18, 01:09 PM
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Re: Migrants from Central America

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
We've had candidates born in Panama and shit. They'll let anyone be president.
Well, I can't exactly dispute that statement now...
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