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Mass Shootings [Merged]

Old 01-27-18, 07:15 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
So are we in agreement that shootings are pretty much not important (at least not to those outside the area the shootings happen and not to those immediate relatives) because they don't affect a majority of Americans, do not affect anything accept for the locale the shooting happens in, and thus, we really don't need political discussions on it as it's a waste of time. Much like a road rage news report.

If so, I totally agree.

It will be interesting to see how a shooting with diverse victims will play out in the media, however.
In this country, I don't think anyone cares outside of the locality at this point. Unless it's a non-white shooter. Then those outside the locality foam at the mouth.

People have already forgotten about Vegas. White guy. I hear more about the Tampa shooting than that one at this point.
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Old 01-27-18, 07:30 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
People have already forgotten about Vegas. White guy. I hear more about the Tampa shooting than that one at this point.
The Vegas one is pretty incredible. He killed 58 people, and managed to injure 851 more. Though I'm not sure how many of those 851 had bullets lodged in them, and how many just tripped or were stampeded during the incident.

Yet nobody really cares. Nothing is going to be done. Seems like a big deal. The industry is donating enough money to politicians, so we can ignore the tragic loss.

In Vegas' case, I also suspect that the casino community had something to do with the silence. They wouldn't want this to be on people's minds, as it could hurt tourism. And I can easily see some powerful people from Vegas and the media discussing how to handle the news.
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Old 01-27-18, 07:41 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
The Vegas one is pretty incredible. He killed 58 people, and managed to injure 851 more. Though I'm not sure how many of those 851 had bullets lodged in them, and how many just tripped or were stampeded during the incident.

Yet nobody really cares. Nothing is going to be done. Seems like a big deal. The industry is donating enough money to politicians, so we can ignore the tragic loss.

In Vegas' case, I also suspect that the casino community had something to do with the silence. They wouldn't want this to be on people's minds, as it could hurt tourism. And I can easily see some powerful people from Vegas and the media discussing how to handle the news.
I love Vegas (I refuse to gamble anywhere else even with an option an Uber away) and I don't blame Mandalay. Not for a second. I've seen production crews load up shit on elevators (I'm guessing porn crews) in high end casino/hotels when I've been there before. Whatever he did would not have been out of the ordinary.
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Old 01-27-18, 07:49 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
So are we in agreement that shootings are pretty much not important (at least not to those outside the area the shootings happen and not to those immediate relatives) because they don't affect a majority of Americans, do not affect anything accept for the locale the shooting happens in, and thus, we really don't need political discussions on it as it's a waste of time. Much like a road rage news report.

If so, I totally agree.

It will be interesting to see how a shooting with diverse victims will play out in the media, however.
Sort of. It's like terrorism in this country. The physical effects on people is vanishingly small. But the emotional reaction to the idea that someone can go Headshot Boom! to your loved ones at any time is creating an undercurrent of fear in a lot of people.

Some people deal with the fear by buying lots of guns and ammo.

I don't agree that there's no point in talking about it. I'm merely saying that the people who want to suppress discussion about possible ways out of the situation have won the argument.
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Old 01-27-18, 08:28 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Yet nobody really cares. Nothing is going to be done. Seems like a big deal. The industry is donating enough money to politicians, so we can ignore the tragic loss.
Maybe mass shootings, workplace shootings, and school shootings are shrugged off because most people see them as a (usually) white man reclaiming his agency?

How else can we explain why we, as a society, are so chill about some fuckwit mowing down a classroom full of first graders with a goddamned machine gun?

The only responses from the gun enthusiast crowd seem to be that either the teacher should have had a gun, or that it didn't happen at all (Crisis Actors!).
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Old 01-27-18, 08:34 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Could be that our society has coarsened beyond all redemption.
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Old 01-27-18, 08:46 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

When the NRA is indicted in the Russia/GOP conspiracy, the dialogue will start to change on gun laws in this country.

It's coming.
Too late for the most recent victims who will never see their Prom or graduation, but it's coming anyway.
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Old 01-27-18, 08:47 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Look, if a couple dozen kids have to die so people can use semi-automatic weapons to shoot a deer, I think thatís a small price to pay. I mean, shooting deer!
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Old 01-27-18, 09:19 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

I forgot to post about it but a week or two ago four police officers were shot. If you haven't heard of it it is probably because the shooter was white. Blue Lives Matters only care about blue lives if black man is the shooter or victim for that matter.
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Old 01-27-18, 09:27 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
When the NRA is indicted in the Russia/GOP conspiracy, the dialogue will start to change on gun laws in this country.

It's coming.
Too late for the most recent victims who will never see their Prom or graduation, but it's coming anyway.
None of that will happen.
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Old 01-27-18, 09:44 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

I agree, that kind of change isn’t coming this generation or the next.
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Old 01-27-18, 09:56 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

NRA is interesting in that most gun owners don't belong to it. I personally think the organization is racist and mainly for republicans. It is one of those groups that is probably used by evil to spread its influence if you believe in that type of thing.
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Old 01-27-18, 10:11 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by E Unit View Post
I agree, that kind of change isn’t coming this generation or the next.
Trump/Russia is an epochal event that is going to create a profound before/after demarcation. Think 9/11 only significantly larger.

Laws will be changed. Popular perceptions that have been taken for granted for generations will be changed. New ways of thinking/interfacing with various aspects of daily life are going to be instituted.

The fallout from this will have impacts that ripple out for years.

This isn't necessarily isolated to matters in Washington. It is all inclusive of other things that are going on right now as well- but Trump/Russia is the prime mover - or Big Bang- that has gotten the ball rolling.

And it isn't stopping when Donnie, and his gang that couldn't shoot straight, get carted off to prison.
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Old 01-27-18, 10:45 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
Trump/Russia is an epochal event that is going to create a profound before/after demarcation. Think 9/11 only significantly larger.

Laws will be changed. Popular perceptions that have been taken for granted for generations will be changed. New ways of thinking/interfacing with various aspects of daily life are going to be instituted.

The fallout from this will have impacts that ripple out for years.

This isn't necessarily isolated to matters in Washington. It is all inclusive of other things that are going on right now as well- but Trump/Russia is the prime mover - or Big Bang- that has gotten the ball rolling.

And it isn't stopping when Donnie, and his gang that couldn't shoot straight, get carted off to prison.
lolz
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Old 01-27-18, 10:55 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
Laws will be changed.
By who, by the same ones I charge today? Who will sign them? The Cheeto in the White House? I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but this is nothing new, and nothing will come of it but talk, like it always does.
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Old 01-27-18, 11:39 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by E Unit View Post
By who, by the same ones I charge today? Who will sign them? The Cheeto in the White House? I wish I could be as optimistic as you, but this is nothing new, and nothing will come of it but talk, like it always does.
Nothing I wrote was meant to be taken as happening now, or even months from now, as we are fully 'in the moment' and will be for quite a while yet.

I'm talking about how this period and event will be viewed generations hence.

Nothing is going to be like a light switch with an immediate on/off cause/effect that you can point to. That is unless you pull back and see these events and this period in a much larger context.

Right now we are all inside the event and thinking we can measure it's dimensions. We can't.

But change will trickle in. The gun culture will definitely come under additional scrutiny when people see who was aligned in opposition to change before this- and to what purpose that was for.

I don't mind people laughing this notion off. I'm not the most articulate guy and what I'm trying to get across is partly philosophical, and a whole lot of supposition anyway.

To follow this you first have to acknowledge that there is a whole lot of stuff at play than just an election that was rigged (however you choose to define 'rigged'). The fix for the situation we are in as a Republic is not just to extricate a set of bad actors. There needs to be remedy involving the tools those bad actors were able to manipulate to achieve what they did. Among other things, this comes down to the way we view and process information as we go forward. This is eventually something that is going to have to be added to grade school curriculums, as the ability to comprehend, evaluate, and distinguish between false propaganda and verifiable information is going to be a skill as critical as basic math is to a species for whom a calculator is almost never out of reach.

Because the next time this happens, we probably won't be graced with adversaries riddled with this many flaws and this much hubris.

Last edited by Paul_SD; 01-27-18 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 01-28-18, 05:51 AM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

One of the most interest aspects of this thread is how many posts have managed to work a racial angle into it.
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Old 01-28-18, 09:35 AM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

It's the internet so it's a favorite pastime to bitch that no one is doing anything about a problem while at the same time offering no real solution of their own. I'm pretty sure if it was so easy as everyone thinks it would have been done.


To re-introduce a topic I mentioned in one of the other threads regarding gun control; In NY we have the strictest gun laws in the country. Cuomo banned the sale and purchase of all AR style weapons in the state. Tried to restrict ammunition capacity. Made many lesser crimes felonies which was a good thing.

There is now an underground cottage industry making the weapons you can no longer legally buy. Ghost guns are made by buying or maching the necessary parts and building from scratch, or buying a long gun with the same caliber and modifying to become an assault rifle. In cases where people make entirely from scratch, there is no serial number to trace, hence the name.

So my point is you can introduce all the laws you want. Getting the bad guys to adhere to the law is another issue entirely. One area where limited ownership laws would work might be school shootings. The spontaneous; girl dumped me, jock bullied me, I'm going to get dad's gun and I'll show them. If dad doesn't have the gun less of a problem. I believe most school shootings tend to be handguns and not AR style, at least since Sandy Hook. As far as the more complex, planned and organized, Vegas or San Bernardino style, people with means and a suicidal determination to make the news, that's a lot tougher. Or the gang style shootings which are a problem, especially out on Long Island right now. Tough to control when there are so many supply lines. You only have so many fingers to put in the dike.
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Old 01-28-18, 09:42 AM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
One of the most interest aspects of this thread is how many posts have managed to work a racial angle into it.
There's some truth to that, though.

White guy shoots a bunch of people == oh well, that's the price of freedom! Tragic, but there's nothing we can do.

Brown guy shoots a bunch of people == what monsters! Ban all the terrorists! Close our borders!

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
It's the internet so it's a favorite pastime to bitch that no one is doing anything about a problem while at the same time offering no real solution of their own. I'm pretty sure if it was so easy as everyone thinks it would have been done.
I recognize the near-impossibility of completely eliminating gun violence, as I'm sure most everyone does. Reducing it (perhaps even significantly?) is an attainable goal.

I find the "well, someone who's determined will still find a gun, so why bother taking any action at all?" to be a completely counterproductive stance.
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Old 01-28-18, 09:49 AM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
It's the internet so it's a favorite pastime to bitch that no one is doing anything about a problem while at the same time offering no real solution of their own. I'm pretty sure if it was so easy as everyone thinks it would have been done.
There are plenty of solutions out there. None of them will be implemented because of the strength of the NRA and the gun culture in this country. It's not about offering solutions, it's about the political will to implement them.

So basically, yawn...a bunch more people were mowed down today by guns.
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Old 01-28-18, 01:13 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Baron Of Hell View Post
NRA...I personally think the organization is racist and mainly for republicans.
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Old 01-28-18, 01:17 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
There's some truth to that, though.

White guy shoots a bunch of people == oh well, that's the price of freedom! Tragic, but there's nothing we can do.

Brown guy shoots a bunch of people == what monsters! Ban all the terrorists! Close our borders!
That may be the perception and the reality from those who are most extremely partisan (similar to posters here who have used attacks by deranged individuals who were judged too mentally impaired to stand trial as an opportunity to smear ideologies they hate). But, aside from violence committed by illegal immigrants, when have there been overwhelming public calls to close our borders due to violence from racial groups here legally?

And when have attacks by "white" illegal immigrants been dismissed in the discussions about border security?

If you're talking about travel restrictions for countries known to harbor terrorists, I see your point.

Last edited by creekdipper; 01-28-18 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 01-28-18, 01:33 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Someone posted there has been 11 school shootings in 2018.

Where is this from - what guns were used?
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Old 01-28-18, 01:52 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

It's not too hard to Google...

https://www.npr.org/2018/01/24/58043...3-days-of-2018

Most of them were hostage/standoff/suicide related.

I'm a believer in experimenting. It's what you do in business. You make a decision, you experiment, and you adjust per the outcome. Businesses are always in a constant state of adaptation. I think it applies to law and government also. Would prefer to see us attempt to do something, rather than nothing.
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Old 01-28-18, 02:10 PM
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re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
It's not too hard to Google....
Apparently it is for some.
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