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Mass Shootings [Merged]

Old 05-27-18, 11:34 AM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

I think we ignore a holistic look at the problem at our peril. Yes, the easy access to guns is why so many shootings are able to occur here.

Why do we have so many guns?

It's part of our macho, male-dominated culture, (both here and worldwide) that we choose to solve problems with violence.

It's interesting that for boys and men, pretending to kill people is considered entertainment.

Violent video games are part of that culture. Are they 'the reason' kids grab up guns to kill their classmates? No, but they are part of the culture that enables that.

What do people think of the new game 'Active Shooter', set to come out June 5th?
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Old 05-27-18, 11:36 AM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Exactly. It’s the culture. I’ve been saying it for some time now.
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Old 05-27-18, 11:40 AM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Exactly. It’s the culture. I’ve been saying it for some time now.
Yeah, shit like that has been said since Elvis shook his hips. Doesn’t mean it’s correct.

Last edited by Draven; 05-27-18 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 05-27-18, 11:47 AM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Exactly. Itís the culture. Iíve been saying it for some time now.
That's all I'm saying too. I'm just asking why it's taboo here to acknowledge that FPS desensitize these young male teen mass shooters.
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Old 05-27-18, 11:53 AM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Exactly. Itís the culture. Iíve been saying it for some time now.
And Iíve been saying we have changed many, many cultural issues when we actually wanted to. And it didnít take 1,000ís of years. Slavery, women rights, racism, segregation, LBGTQ rights, etc, etc, etc. Are all these ďCulturalĒ items 100% solved and perfect. Of course not. But they are vastly improved.

Now have we improved the gun issue in this country? No itís worse than it has ever been.

Thatís the point. We didnít eliminate racism. We wonít elimintate all gun violence (or even eliminate all mass shootings). But we can significantly improve it.

The only cultural issue is we choose not to take action.

In Australia when they made massive gun regulations, the politicians fell on their swords. They did not get re-elected because of their stances. But they knew the right thing to do. You really think any politician would do that here. Do the right thing regardless of cost?
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Old 05-27-18, 11:55 AM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by PerryD View Post
That's all I'm saying too. I'm just asking why it's taboo here to acknowledge that FPS desensitize these young male teen mass shooters.
Because study after study after study proves that isnít true?
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Old 05-27-18, 12:02 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Because study after study after study proves that isnít true?
Or at least isnít true for kids that were not already unstable for other reasons. Same with other forms of violent media. Anything to deflect from the actual issue of the number of guns readily available to kids.
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Old 05-27-18, 12:23 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

I think we get into a habit of discounting what 'the other side' says out of habit.

I personally am not blaming video games as the sole reason for school shootings, but I'm suggesting it's part of the problem of our violent, gun-obsessed culture.

If I'm reading correctly, some seem to be suggesting that our violent culture is not part of the reason why we commit acts of violence.
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Old 05-27-18, 12:35 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Kurtie Dee View Post
I personally am not blaming video games as the sole reason for school shootings, but I'm suggesting it's part of the problem of our violent, gun-obsessed culture.

If I'm reading correctly, some seem to be suggesting that our violent culture is not part of the reason why we commit acts of violence.
Yes. The key is that the media alone should not be blamed. Media can have a significant impact on those with existing issues and/or if there is little or no parent monitoring of the intake.
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Old 05-27-18, 12:40 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Yes. The key is that the media alone should not be blamed. Media can have a significant impact on those with existing issues and/or if there is little or no parent monitoring of the intake.
Hell, media has a huge influence on even those without mental health issues.

The vast amount of guns in America is the 'how' to the problem, tons of other factors are the 'why'.
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Old 05-27-18, 12:46 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Kurtie Dee View Post
Hell, media has a huge influence on even those without mental health'.
Unless it changes I donít believe the numbers taking in violent media support it being a root cause of anything other than the likelihood of taking in more similar media.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 05-27-18 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 05-27-18, 01:22 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Unless it changes I donít believe the numbers taking in violent media support it being a root cause of anything other than the likelihood of take no in more similar media.
I don't believe violent media is the root cause either. Just a symptom and an influence.

I haven't looked at the studies, but I wonder what the penetration and usage of FPS games etc. is in other industrialized nations.
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Old 05-27-18, 01:48 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Because study after study after study proves that isnít true?
I asked the question to Google and all I see is stuff like this. Seems like it is still up for debate. But taboo here, right?
http://www.educationalneuroscience.org.uk/resources/neuromyth-or-neurofact/violent-video-games-make-children-more-violent/
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Old 05-27-18, 01:50 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Kurtie Dee View Post
I don't believe violent media is the root cause either. Just a symptom and an influence.

I haven't looked at the studies, but I wonder what the penetration and usage of FPS games etc. is in other industrialized nations.
Even movies too. John Wick makes slaughtering people look fun
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Old 05-27-18, 02:01 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Other countries have the exact same access to violent games and movies. If these were the main issues, and not a distraction, then mass shootings and school shootings would be far more prevalent in every other country, at least on a per capita scale. They aren't. So while yes, I think it's perfectly fair to say that violent media could have a desensitizing effect on certain types of people, it's still not a main driving factor when other countries have the same access to said media but simply do not have the same issue.
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Old 05-27-18, 02:03 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

I'll repeat, one of the foundations of 'play' for boys is playing with guns; cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, toy guns, cap guns, water pistols, grab a stick and pretend to shoot someone.

Of course we try to teach our kids right from wrong, but the gun is part of the fabric of american culture.

I have had lots of hippie-dippie way-far-left friends who didn't allow gun-play of any kind with their children.

Of further interest, none of these types of play are associated with girls.

ETA: not trying to distract or deflect, but just noting that; to say our culture isn't a huge influence on how we behave is really confusing to me.
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Old 05-27-18, 02:13 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Did kids who not previously stolen cars, suddenly start with the success of Grand Theft Auto?
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Old 05-27-18, 02:17 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Did kids who not previously stolen cars, suddenly start with the success of Grand Theft Auto?
300 million guns in the country is bad, and I have been pretty clear in the past that I'm pro-gun control, etc. etc.

I'm still not sure why there is such resistance to accepting that it's our culture that has gotten us here and is a big part of the problem. If we didn't have a violent, gun-worshipping culture, we probably wouldn't have 300 million guns.

Things can have more than one cause, and multiple solutions.
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Old 05-27-18, 02:29 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

http://theconversation.com/its-time-...violence-91607

This article written by someone that has studied the issue, its full of links to studies and research.

But those still claiming ďitís video gameĒ or ďmental healthĒ are missing the point. Aggression and violence are complex. There isnít a single factor that effects every single person the exact same. The common thread is the gun and easy access to the gun. Am I saying that no single kid ever played a violent game and that ďpushed himĒ over the edge to take action? Of course Iím not saying that. But with all these dozens and dozens and dozens of factors, it makes no sense to go after them individually. One of these last shootings (canít believe I canít remember which) was supposedly ďtriggeredĒ by the dude being rejected by a girl he liked. If you going to blame video games, you better be willing to tell girls to never reject guys advances. But regardless of girls or video games, if they didnít have such easy access to guns, we would have less mass shooting. No not zero, but less.

Study after study show a home with a gun is MORE dangerous NOT less. Studies have shown ďgood guy with a gunĒ is a myth. As we saw in Santa Fe, the dude was unarmed and stopped the shooter. Which only makes sense really. Guns are dangerous. They are meant to kill. Having one increases the likelihood of being killed by a gun....
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Old 05-27-18, 02:31 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Kurtie Dee View Post
300 million guns in the country is bad, and I have been pretty clear in the past that I'm pro-gun control, etc. etc.

I'm still not sure why there is such resistance to accepting that it's our culture that has gotten us here and is a big part of the problem. If we didn't have a violent, gun-worshipping culture, we probably wouldn't have 300 million guns.

Things can have more than one cause, and multiple solutions.
See my note above. Iím not disputing a small possible link to video games. Iím saying there is a small possible link to dozens and dozens and dozens of things. And if you are correct it is culture, then the smart thing to do is make it tougher to get a gun (my post wasnít in response to you, but the guy that keeps claiming itís ďtabooĒ.)
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Old 05-27-18, 02:32 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

blaming shootings on video games makes as much sense as blaming Playboy for a monster raping women,ZERO
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Old 05-27-18, 02:34 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
blaming shootings on video games makes as much sense as blaming Playboy for a monster raping women,ZERO
No correlation to men addicted to porn treating women poorly? Interesting.
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Old 05-27-18, 02:36 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by PerryD View Post
No correlation to men addicted to porn treating women poorly? Interesting.
that's not what I said
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Old 05-27-18, 02:38 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
See my note above. Iím not disputing a small possible link to video games. Iím saying there is a small possible link to dozens and dozens and dozens of things. And if you are correct it is culture, then the smart thing to do is make it tougher to get a gun (my post wasnít in response to you, but the guy that keeps claiming itís ďtabooĒ.)
Absolutely. I'd rather there were no guns.

But the reason we have so many is our culture. It would be good to try to change both things, and of course the most logical thing to do would be to eliminate the weapons.
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Old 05-27-18, 02:49 PM
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Re: Mass Shootings [Merged]

I don't want to blame video games. They are an inanimate object. They can cause some aggression in some people but 99.9% play and have no anti-social behavior associated with it. But we can blame another inanimate object. The availability of a gun, an inanimate object, somehow makes someone who is normally passive and reasonable and makes them want to shoot up a school or the mall. 99.9% of gun owners do not go shoot up schools. Whereas the shooters overwhelmingly have either circumvented regulations, been completely failed by the system like Parkland, or stolen them from someone else. If I have to steal something from you in order to obtain it, is it too readily available? Should you have had it in the first place if I could steal it and do harm, even though the only thing you ever did was put holes in a piece of paper?
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