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What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of rape?

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View Poll Results: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of rape?
No time in prison.
1
6.25%
10% of the time that an actual rapist would get.
0
0%
25% of the time that an actual rapist would get.
0
0%
50% of the time that an actual rapist would get.
2
12.50%
The same amount of time that an actual rapist would get.
12
75.00%
More time than an actual rapist would get.
1
6.25%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of rape?

Old 12-16-17, 10:39 PM
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What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of rape?

A false accusation of rape can cost an innocent person their education, their job, and their reputation. It can force them to spend years in prison. It can ruin their life.

In addition, every false accusation of rape potentially gives ammunition to people who might want to falsely argue that other accusations or rape - ones in which a rape really did take place - are false.

It's also a waste of the taxpayers' money.

My answer:

Spoiler:

The same amount of time that an actual rapist would get.



https://nypost.com/2017/12/16/rape-t...-are-revealed/

Rape trial falls apart after accuser’s 40,000 texts are revealed

December 16, 2017

A student has described going through “mental torture” after a rape case against him was thrown out in court because police had failed to hand over more than 40,000 messages from his accuser.

Liam Allan, 22, faced up to ten years in jail charged with six counts of rape and six counts of sexual assault against a young woman over a 14-month period that began when he was 19.

The criminology student at Greenwich University had spent nearly two years on bail and three days in Croydon Crown Court when the trial was stopped in a dramatic fashion after it emerged police officers had failed to hand over evidence that proved his innocence.

The alleged victim had claimed she did not enjoy sex, while Mr Allan claimed it was consensual and she was acting maliciously because he refused to see her after he returned to university.

Now, the judge has called for an inquiry at the “very highest level” to understand why police failed to hand over critical evidence including 40,000 messages from the accuser to Mr Allan and friends.

The messages showed how she had continually messaged Mr Allan for “casual sex”, said how much she enjoyed it and discussed fantasies of violent sex and rape, The Times reports.

Outside the court, Mr Allan said he went through “mental torture” over the two year period and relied on the system to uncover evidence that would exonerate him.

When first accused, he turned to a local lawyer he had done work experience with and said he was terrified at the idea of going to prison with sex offenders and worried about what would happen to his mum and flatmates when he was away.

“You are all on your own. I could not talk to my mother about the details of the case because she might have been called as a witness. I couldn’t talk with my friends because they might have been called. I felt completely isolated at every stage of the process,” he said.

“I can’t explain the mental torture of the past two years. … I feel betrayed by the system which I had believed would do the right thing, the system I want to work in.”

The life-changing discovery was made at the 11th hour when a new prosecutor, Jerry Hayes, took over the case one day before the trial began and ordered police to hand over records — including a computer disk that contained 40,000 messages.

Mr Allan’s lawyers had already sought access to the accusers’s telephone records and messages but their requests were denied on the basis there was nothing of interest in them.

Upon discovering the messages, Mr Hayes said he would offer no evidence in court and would like to “apologise” to Mr Allan.

“There was a terrible failure in disclosure which was inexcusable,” he said. “There could have been a serious miscarriage of justice, which could have led to a very significant period of imprisonment and life on the sex offenders register. It appears the officer in the case has not reviewed the disk, which is quite appalling.”

Speaking later, he said detectives had previously told him the sexual messages were “too personal” to share.

“The defence quickly saw the information blew the prosecution out of the water. If they had not been seen this boy faced 12 years in prison and on the sex offenders’ register for life with little chance of appeal. This was a massive miscarriage of justice, which thank heavens was avoided,” he told the BBC.

Judge Peter Gower said Mr Allan was not guilty on all charges.


“There is something that has gone wrong and it is a matter that the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in my judgment should be considering at the very highest level,” he said.

“Mr Allan leaves the courtroom an innocent man without a stain on his character.”

Mr Allan’s defence lawyer Julia Smart said she also received details about the text messages the night before she was due to cross examine the accuser, and when she told the court of her findings the trial was scrapped.

Mr Allan’s mum, Lorraine Allan, 46, said the “current climate” means that many people are treated as “guilty until you can prove you’re innocent.”

A spokesman for London Metropolitan Police said: “We are aware of this case being dismissed from court and are carrying out an urgent assessment to establish the circumstances which led to this action being taken.

“We are working closely with the Crown Prosecution Service and keeping in close contact with the victim while this process takes place.”

The Crown Prosecution Service said they will not conduct a “management review” with the Metropolitian Police to “examine the way in which the case was handled.”

Mr Hayes, who is a former Conservative MP, wrote in The Times the case marked the most “appalling failure of disclosure I have ever encountered.”

“The CPS are under terrible pressure, as are the police. Both work hard but are badly under-resourced.

“Crown court trials only work because of the co-operation and goodwill of advocates and the bench — but time pressures are making this increasingly difficult.
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Old 12-17-17, 12:32 AM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

OK, I'll take the bait. False rape allegations are an outrage, especially because they undermine all of the extant real cases, and make it even less likely for victims to come forward than it is now. If the false accuser is of sound mind, and it can be clearly proven that the accusation is false and malicious, he/she should be punished with some time in prison, in my view, along with monetary damages. How much time and how much of a punitive penalty depends on the circumstances and severity of the case.
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Old 12-17-17, 06:56 AM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

I wouldn't send them to prison. Don't want to ruin any career they might have with a criminal record. I'd want the accuser to make as money as possible, so their pay can be garnished for life and given to the victim.
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Old 12-17-17, 10:51 AM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

I'm really confused by this case. Wouldn't the accused have copies of most of those texts as well?
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Old 12-17-17, 11:01 AM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by JasonX View Post
I'm really confused by this case. Wouldn't the accused have copies of most of those texts as well?
Yeah, it’s full of holes and missing information.
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Old 12-17-17, 11:14 AM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Unfortunately, it's not just the accuser, but everyone involved who let the case get to where it went...which allowed the conviction to start with.

But on face value of fake-sexual assault allegations which enabled an innocent person to go to prison, I actually agree with rw2516, where a standard amount of garnished wages would be guaranteed to the accuser, and paid by the city if the accuser failed to make payments or got behind.

After all, the city's legal system is still responsible for the conviction, as there should be proper investigations by detectives, prosecutors, etc. Proper investigations that are thorough, normally bring to the surface the inconsistencies of such accusations.

However in some cases, we have the prosecutors themselves being politically involved and biased.
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Old 12-17-17, 11:28 AM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

When someone makes an accusation, it's the job of the police to determine whether it's credible. That happens all the time.

What should the prison sentence be for "She took my car!" vs. "It's my car. I paid for it! I'm taking it back." Larceny is a felony, and a false accusation of it could result in the loss of job and imprisonment.

Or "He's the one who shot him!" It seems like every few months we hear about another innocent person released from life without parole.

Those police investigators screwed up badly, and then they withheld exculpatory evidence. What should their prison sentence be?

You're treating rape a special kind of crime.
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Old 12-17-17, 11:58 AM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post

You're treating rape a special kind of crime.
Well, it IS a special kind of crime. I think it's the only one where "I was drunk" means you aren't responsible/able to consent.

Can you imagine that working on other crimes? "I'm sorry your honor, but I didn't consent to robbing that bank, because I was drunk"
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Old 12-17-17, 12:13 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

I think putting extra consequences for false accusations of rape will have the unintended effect of silencing many people who actually were raped but don’t have rock solid evidence, which happens plenty.
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Old 12-17-17, 12:18 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
I think putting extra consequences for false accusations of rape will have the unintended effect of silencing many people who actually were raped but don’t have rock solid evidence, which happens plenty.
I wonder if there would be a way to seal rape indictments and only reveal the who the rapist is, if they are found guilty?

That way if people ARE falsely accused, their lives aren't ruined.
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Old 12-17-17, 12:21 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
I think putting extra consequences for false accusations of rape will have the unintended effect of silencing many people who actually were raped but don’t have rock solid evidence, which happens plenty.
Yes. Especially when there is an huge economic differential in place.

A Kennedy or Koch Brother raped you? Good luck going toe to toe with them in court. And then when you lose because of the insufficiency of the legal representation you can afford, you can look forward to a nice long prison sentence.

I definitely understand the impetus behind looking at false allegation charges. But I also can see that mechanism would be horrifically perverted by scumbags of means- and it would have the net result of absolutely dampening real victims motivation to speak up.
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Old 12-17-17, 12:42 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
I wouldn't send them to prison. Don't want to ruin any career they might have with a criminal record. I'd want the accuser to make as money as possible, so their pay can be garnished for life and given to the victim.

That's an excellent point.
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Old 12-17-17, 12:44 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by JasonX View Post
I'm really confused by this case. Wouldn't the accused have copies of most of those texts as well?

I would think so. And I do wonder why he didn't try to use them from the very beginning.
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Old 12-17-17, 12:47 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by Nick Danger View Post
When someone makes an accusation, it's the job of the police to determine whether it's credible. That happens all the time.

What should the prison sentence be for "She took my car!" vs. "It's my car. I paid for it! I'm taking it back." Larceny is a felony, and a false accusation of it could result in the loss of job and imprisonment.

Or "He's the one who shot him!" It seems like every few months we hear about another innocent person released from life without parole.

Those police investigators screwed up badly, and then they withheld exculpatory evidence. What should their prison sentence be?

You're treating rape a special kind of crime.

Yes, they did screw up badly.

You're right, I am treating it differently. But it is a different kind of crime. I do agree with you that other kinds of false accusations should also be dealt with.
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Old 12-17-17, 12:49 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
I think putting extra consequences for false accusations of rape will have the unintended effect of silencing many people who actually were raped but don’t have rock solid evidence, which happens plenty.

They would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the accusation was fake. The situation in the above article is one such example.
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Old 12-17-17, 02:24 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
I think putting extra consequences for false accusations of rape will have the unintended effect of silencing many people who actually were raped but don’t have rock solid evidence, which happens plenty.
I think you're being entirely too generous to the people pushing for these laws. Falsely reporting a crime is itself a crime already, and I've yet to see evidence that there's an epidemic of false rape claims.

When you look at the number of rapes that are committed vs. reported vs. charges laid vs. convictions, it's fucking depressing. I'd wager a chilling effect is exactly what whoever's filling grundle's head with this MRA bullshit wants.
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Old 12-17-17, 07:54 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

I mean, based strictly on the info presented in the article, it seems entirely possible that they had a consensual sexual relationship for some time and later he raped her multiple times. It's kind of telling that some people are all 'prove beyond a reasonable doubt' when talking about rape, but 'lock her up as if she herself is a rapist' at the mere appearance of filing a false report. If you want to push that line of thinking, it's basically going to make it really easy for guys to rape any girls they've ever exchanged dirty texts with.
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Old 12-17-17, 08:11 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Same sentence that should be given out for somebody who spreads false information about somebody's place of birth on the Internet.
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Old 12-17-17, 08:27 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Same sentence that should be given out for somebody who spreads false information about somebody's place of birth on the Internet.
The presidency? Don't you think that sends the wrong message? 😀
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Old 12-17-17, 09:02 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

What kind of person makes false rape accusations?

False rape accusations loom large in the cultural imagination. We don’t forget the big ones: The widely-read 2014 Rolling Stone article, later retracted, about a brutal gang rape at the University of Virginia; the 2006 accusations against innocent members of the Duke University lacrosse team. These cases are readily cited by defense attorneys and Republican lawmakers and anyone else who wants a reason to discuss the dangers of false allegations. What if a woman has consensual sex, and then regrets it the next day? What if a woman gets dumped by her boyfriend and decides to accuse him of rape as revenge? What if she’s just doing it for attention? Are false accusations reaching epidemic levels in today’s hard-drinking hookup culture, where the lines of consent have been blurred? Critics argue that reports of rape should be treated with more caution, since men’s lives are so often ruined by women’s malicious lies.

But my research—including academic studies, journalistic accounts, and cases recorded in the US National Registry of Exonerations—suggests that every part of this narrative is wrong. What’s more, it’s wrong in ways that help real rapists escape justice, while perversely making it more likely that we will miss the signs of false reports.

Innocent men rarely face rape charges

Let’s start with the idea that false rape accusations ruin lives, and are therefore a universal risk to men. Generally, feminists dismiss this idea by arguing that false accusations are rare—only between 2% and 10% of all reports are estimated to be false. What’s equally important to know, however, is that false rape accusations almost never have serious consequences.

This may be hard to believe, especially considering that rape is a felony, punishable with years of prison. However—to start with this worst-case scenario—it’s exceedingly rare for a false rape allegation to end in prison time. According to the National Registry of Exonerations, since records began in 1989, in the US there are only 52 cases where men convicted of sexual assault were exonerated because it turned out they were falsely accused. By way of comparison, in the same period, there are 790 cases in which people were exonerated for murder.

Furthermore, in the most detailed study ever conducted of sexual assault reports to police, undertaken for the British Home Office in the early 2000s, out of 216 complaints that were classified as false, only 126 had even gotten to the stage where the accuser lodged a formal complaint. Only 39 complainants named a suspect. Only six cases led to an arrest, and only two led to charges being brought before they were ultimately deemed false. (Here, as elsewhere, it has to be assumed that some unknown percentage of the cases classified as false actually involved real rapes; what they don’t involve is countless innocent men’s lives being ruined.)

So the evidence suggests that even in the rare case where a man is the subject of a false rape complaint, chances are that the charges will be dropped without him ever learning about the allegations. This raises an obvious question: Why would false accusers go through the trouble of making a report to police, only to instantly withdraw it?

The reasons for false reports

In every academic study, one of the most common kinds of false accuser is a teenage girl who tells her parents she was raped to avoid getting in trouble. Unwanted pregnancy is sometimes cited by such girls, but the reason can also be trivial; the phrase “missed curfew” shows up with disturbing frequency in these cases. As a rule, it’s the parents who insist on getting police involved. Two different studies have found that almost half of all false rape complaints are lodged by someone other than the alleged victim, usually a parent.

Another kind of case which evaporates rapidly is that of a person who falsely reports a rape in the hope of getting needed medical care or psychiatric medication; in one study, six of the 55 reports classified as false by a police department in one year fit this description. Like the teens who missed their curfew, these false accusers have no interest in pursuing charges after the lie has served its purpose.

Portrait of a false accuser

Some false accusers do press charges, however, and this brings us to an unpalatable point. Because real rape victims are often mistaken for false accusers, it can be uncomfortable to insinuate anything negative about either group. But these two groups are not at all alike. In fact, rape victims aren’t even a group; they have no unifying traits. They can be young or old, black or white, men or women, gay or straight, rich or poor—anyone at all. Even a 65-year-old man can be a victim of rape.

When one looks at a series of fabricated sexual assaults, on the other hand, patterns immediately begin to emerge. The most striking of these is that, almost invariably, adult false accusers who persist in pursuing charges have a previous history of bizarre fabrications or criminal fraud. Indeed, they’re often criminals whose family and friends are also criminals; broken people trapped in chaotic lives.

Crystal Mangum, the accuser in the Duke lacrosse case, was the archetypal false accuser. She had previously reported another brutal rape/kidnapping in which no one was ever charged. She had a previous felony conviction, and she ultimately went to prison for an unrelated crime (in her case, murdering her boyfriend). She had trouble keeping her stripping job because the combination of drugs she was on—including both anti-depressants and methadone—made her keep falling asleep at work. Tragically, she seems to have genuinely suffered sexual abuse as a child—another feature that often appears in adult false accusers.

Four motivations

But while false accusers often have similar histories, they have various motives. These can be divided into roughly four categories: personal gain, mental illness, revenge, and the need for an alibi.

Accusers motivated by personal gain are generally the same people who slip on the courthouse steps and sue the city. Sometimes their modus operandi is to claim to be raped on government property; sometimes it’s to claim to have been raped by a government employee. In either case, the resulting suit against the government will typically only be one in a series of fraudulent claims. One such false accuser turned out to have previously filed seven bodily injury insurance claims, including three identical claims against restaurants in which she claimed to have broken a tooth on a rock in her food. Occasionally, however, the gain is not financial, as in the case of a woman who lied about rape because she thought it might help her stay out of prison on a drug charge; or the man, already in prison, who was hoping to be moved into a cell with his boyfriend.

Mentally ill false accusers can be people with severe psychosis who genuinely believe they’ve been raped; one woman claimed to have been sexually assaulted every day for three years by “every gang member in the city.” More commonly, however, they have what is called a factitious disorder: a personality disorder related to (and often accompanied by) Munchausen’s syndrome, which compels them to claim they’ve been assaulted. One such accuser was Sara Ylen, who ultimately accused at least seven different men of rape; in the incident for which she was finally arrested, she appeared at a police station with her face painted in fake bruises that wiped off easily with gauze. Like many such accusers, Ylen also falsely claimed to have a terminal illness, and spent two years in hospice care for cancer, although no doctor had ever diagnosed her with the disease.

These accusers often compulsively change their stories, adding dramatic details without regard either for the account they originally gave or the physical evidence. (Note that more common mental health problems like anxiety, depression, or non-psychotic bipolar disorder are not associated with false rape accusations.)

Revenge is another common catalyst—either as a single motive, or as the reason a particular victim was chosen. Contrary to popular belief, however, relatively few such accusers are seeking revenge for getting dumped or rejected by former lovers. For instance, none of the 52 cases of documented wrongful conviction in the US feature women scorned—although there is one “man scorned”, a remarkably persuasive character who managed to convince his girlfriend to accuse a male roommate who’d rejected his sexual advances.

Other revenge cases include a woman trading sex for drugs who was disappointed in the quantity of drugs; a man who beat his wheelchair-bound girlfriend until she agreed to accuse a man of whom he was jealous; an 18-year-old boy living with an older man who threw the boy out after an argument about the man’s reneging on a promise to buy the boy a car in return for sex; and a woman who accused a man she thought had stolen her husband’s truck while the husband was in prison. There’s also the remarkable case of a woman who accused her gastroenterologist of performing oral sex on her after a colonoscopy, because she was angry at his refusal to act as an expert witness for her in a lawsuit. She then, of course, sued the gastroenterologist too.

Accusers who fabricate rapes as an alibi are mostly the already mentioned teens in trouble with parents, although some are adults, who are typically trying to cover up an infidelity. These are the only accusers who can sometimes seem ordinary, even sympathetic—like the 14-year-old girl with cognitive deficits whose mother found her in a compromising position with a boy, and who took four months to work up the courage to admit the sex was consensual. When charges are brought in these cases, the driving force is often a third party who believes the lie and naturally wants to see the perpetrator punished—and sometimes also to cash in with a lawsuit.

What we know

A final note about who makes false accusations: While popular conceptions of this issue center on female mendacity, clearly many of these stories involve male accusers. Given the fact that men, too, can crave revenge and have personality disorders, this should be obvious. If it’s counter-intuitive, it’s because the issue has consistently been framed as one of gender warfare. But the truth is that false rape accusations aren’t salvos in any political struggle. They’re crimes, mostly perpetrated by the same men and women who commit other categories of crime, and for similar reasons.

Neither are false accusations the result of miscommunications taking place in a murky world of casual hook-ups and heavy drinking. False accusers almost never tell stories that could, by any stretch of the imagination, be seen as an innocent misunderstanding. In a study of false rape claims made to the Los Angeles Police Department, 78% involved claims of aggravated rape—assaults involving a gun or knife, gang rapes, and/or attacks resulting in injuries.

Most of all, it should be remembered that a false accuser is a person making up a story to serve some goal. Whether the impetus is personal gain, factitious disorder, the need for an alibi, or revenge, it’s crucial to the accuser that their story be taken seriously. For this reason, it’s radically unlikely—and in practice does not happen—that a false accuser would invent a story where the issue of consent could seem ambiguous.

It’s necessary to add an important caveat: The same kinds of people who are most likely to become false accusers are also frequently targeted by predators. Teenagers, people with severe mental illness, people with criminal records—all are vulnerable to rapists, who often have a very keen sense of which victims are most likely to be mistrusted by authorities. Although the accounts of these complainants need careful scrutiny, police should take them more seriously, not less seriously, than they currently do. The lesson to be drawn here is not that any individual’s story of sexual assault should be discounted; it’s that the vast majority of rape reports can be believed.

When a woman says she’s been brutally raped by seven men at a public party on a bed of broken glass, as the UVA accuser did, and when that woman has a history of strange lies, as the UVA accuser also did, there’s nothing wrong with being skeptical. But if a woman without any history of dramatic falsehoods says she went home with a man and, after they’d kissed a while consensually, he held her down and forced her into sex—in the absence of compelling evidence to the contrary, you can just assume it’s true. This is not because of any political dictum like “Believe women.” It’s because this story looks exactly like tens of thousands of date rapes that happen every year, and nothing at all like a false rape accusation.
https://qz.com/980766/the-truth-abou...e-accusations/
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Old 12-17-17, 10:50 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by whaaat View Post
I think you're being entirely too generous to the people pushing for these laws. Falsely reporting a crime is itself a crime already, and I've yet to see evidence that there's an epidemic of false rape claims.

When you look at the number of rapes that are committed vs. reported vs. charges laid vs. convictions, it's fucking depressing. I'd wager a chilling effect is exactly what whoever's filling grundle's head with this MRA bullshit wants.
Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
I mean, based strictly on the info presented in the article, it seems entirely possible that they had a consensual sexual relationship for some time and later he raped her multiple times. It's kind of telling that some people are all 'prove beyond a reasonable doubt' when talking about rape, but 'lock her up as if she herself is a rapist' at the mere appearance of filing a false report. If you want to push that line of thinking, it's basically going to make it really easy for guys to rape any girls they've ever exchanged dirty texts with.
to all of these posts.
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Old 12-18-17, 08:07 AM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
to all of these posts.
Agreed. Needless to say I didn't vote in that absurd poll.
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Old 12-18-17, 02:11 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

I'm still trying to figure out the prison sentence for someone who protests while not on the sidewalk.
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Old 12-18-17, 02:33 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
I'm still trying to figure out the prison sentence for someone who protests while not on the sidewalk.
Death penalty.
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Old 12-18-17, 02:54 PM
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Re: What should the prison sentence be for someone who makes a false accusation of ra

Originally Posted by whaaat View Post
I think you're being entirely too generous to the people pushing for these laws. Falsely reporting a crime is itself a crime already, and I've yet to see evidence that there's an epidemic of false rape claims.

When you look at the number of rapes that are committed vs. reported vs. charges laid vs. convictions, it's fucking depressing. I'd wager a chilling effect is exactly what whoever's filling grundle's head with this MRA bullshit wants.

In the article that I posted, there is absolutely nothing to indicate that the woman who made the false accusation is getting any punishment whatsoever.

This is a serious problem, and it needs to be dealt with.
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