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Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Old 11-23-18, 01:15 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
That perspective of "the Republican Party is shrinking" is a bit of wishful thinking... sure, the number of REGISTERED republicans has decreased, how many will continue to vote republican anyways?

Those people are not going away and they're not going to suddenly realize that their hatred was unfounded. How many republicans still hate Obama? How many still believe that he is a Muslim born in Kenya?
I think people here were busy discussing the latest shiny object when I originally posted it.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?453821...publican-party

The relevant points being made begin around 17:10 and last about 5 minutes

Wilson has made his living as a Republican strategist. He's plugged into what is going on with the party and with the electorate across the country. He absolutely endorses Boot's take on this.
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Old 11-23-18, 01:21 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
It’s a dirty little secret, but Hitler and Nazism were tolerated or embraced by a lot of Americans before Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. (After Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, we declared war on Japan, and, due to treaties, Germany was forced to declare war on the US.)

You had plenty of prominent Americans who were chummy with and openly sympathetic to the Third Reich, including Charles Lindbergh, Fred Koch, Joe Kennedy, Henry Ford, and Prescott Bush. (Yes, those Kochs, Kennedys, and Bushes.)
It's even worse. After World War II, once we had already gone to war to defeat Nazism and Mussolini's Italy, came the Red Scare. And during the Red Scare, people who had opposed Hitler and Mussolini prior to Pearl Harbor were often attacked as being premature anti-fascists. Meanwhile, I can't think of a single American who suffered even a little for supporting Hitler before Pearl Harbor.
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Old 11-23-18, 01:28 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

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Old 11-23-18, 01:41 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by Jaymole View Post
I guess I have become cynical about the future and I think things are only going to get worse. So many people have become impervious to facts and I just do not see the political divide in this country shrinking anytime soon.
Not that my perspective is better, but I think the reality hasn't changed a lot. Maybe Trump did a good thing () by making us see the truth about ourselves, and acknowledgement is better than denial or ignorance, and is the first step toward improvement.
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Old 11-23-18, 02:11 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

The massive irony is that Trump is going to be(in)directly responsible for a massive house cleaning- both literally and metaphorically.

I've been saying it all along and I still believe it. The pick ups in the house were a reaction to just the things that are above the surface visible and what they think or feel might be *possibly* coming.

Indictments, and the narrative they will spell out when they do arrive, should go a long way in casting those above feelings in amber for generations.
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Old 11-23-18, 08:06 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post

Indictments, and the narrative they will spell out when they do arrive, should go a long way in casting those above feelings in amber for generations.
Good point. This election was the appetizer. The main course is yet to come.
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Old 11-23-18, 11:10 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
Indictments, and the narrative they will spell out when they do arrive, should go a long way in casting those above feelings in amber for generations.
Like after Nixon's Presidency ended in Disgrace the GOP was dead for "Generations" or after Bush Jr. was Universally loathed when he left office it left the GOP dead for decades. The public is fickle,and the GOP standard bearer's of the next decade will be able to live to fight another day and distance themselves for Trump.
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Old 11-23-18, 11:54 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

I don't know where you are getting your history but no one thought the Republican party was dead for "generations" after Nixon.

Must Republicans, did and still to this day say the only thing Nixon did was get caught.
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Old 11-24-18, 12:07 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

I wasn't born until after Nixon..........but man after every election of my adult life their is can party X ever win again hot takes. I remember after Bush Jr won in 04 people were posting articles about whether the Democrat's could ever win a Presidential election again. And I distinctly remember people comparing Bush in 08 to Herbert Hoover and questioning if he ruined the Republican brand for a generation. And I can remember in the summer of 2016 a Slate article suggesting the Republicans might not be able to win a Presidential Election for generations. And even now after Trump's low approval rating,and winning the House, I see Democratic's saying because of where Republican voter's live that the GOP might hold onto the Senate forever. People all too often read way too much into the outcome of singular elections,not to mention every single election people will say it's the most important election of their lifetime.
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Old 11-24-18, 07:34 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
Good point. This election was the appetizer. The main course is yet to come.
Perhaps. For every Bernie Madoff there are a 100 that never get brought to justice.

When a thing is too big that it would cause greater harm to a greater number of people, it is often swept under the rug... or at least that is the excuse that people give.

Obama didn't say anything publicly about Russian meddling in the 2016 election even though he knew it was happening because he didn't want to appear that HE was trying to influence the election... so he just allowed it to be meddled in.

Comey knew that the Russians were meddling and said nothing publicly but "had" to announce he was re-opening the Hillary email investigation so that if anything were to be found and Hillary won, he wouldn't cause people to think that her win was illegitimate. (I know that some claim that he announced because some threatened to leak... but he never said that was the reason)

Some people are "too big to jail".
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Old 11-24-18, 07:43 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

The bigger problem is, there are still people saying Russia meddling either didn’t happen, or that it had zero influence. This despite the overwhelming evidence.

It’s like when New England is caught cheating. Their own fans either down play it, or say it didn’t happen.
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Old 11-24-18, 11:34 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

There are only two parties, so the leaders of a party would have to destroy the brand to kill the party. One way to do that would be to back a traitorous grifter. We will see what Mueller uncovers.

If Republicans ever try to dump Trump, it is unlikely that Trump will go quietly into the night. He will rip the party in two. Republican lawmakers know that, and it's their nightmare scenario. That's why they will stick with him until the bitter end -- when there is no alternative to dumping him.

Last edited by Ghostbuster; 11-24-18 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 11-24-18, 11:54 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Just think - if Trump gets impeached (he won’t) or leaves the party (he won’t), all it would take is a Twitter and Facebook ban to make him virtually powerless. Ah, I want to live in that world.
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Old 11-24-18, 12:01 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

No ripping apart of the party will happen.
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Old 11-24-18, 12:15 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
Trump, it is unlikely that Trump will go quietly into the night. He will rip the party in two. Republican lawmakers know that, and it's their nightmare scenario. That's why they will stick with him until the bitter end -- when there is no alternative to dumping him.
Yup, if he is not forced out from something insurmountable (e.g., criminal prosecution, finally does/says something even his supporters cannot ignore, etc.), it makes no sense for the GOP to work towards his replacement. Let's say someone like Jeff Flake challenges him in the primaries. If Flake fails, all he does is damage Trump the candidate. If he succeeds, he stands almost no chance of beating a Democratic challenger with the charisma of a postage stamp.

A Trump loss or removal in 2020 is actually better for the long term health of the GOP, but I don't think too many people in the GOP think like this.
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Old 11-24-18, 01:11 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
The bigger problem is, there are still people saying Russia meddling either didn’t happen, or that it had zero influence. This despite the overwhelming evidence.

It’s like when New England is caught cheating. Their own fans either down play it, or say it didn’t happen.
It's like telling someone who's been on a steady diet of Fox News and far right radio over the past couple decades that they've been brainwashed. They would insist that they have not been brainwashed, but anyone else around them, who isn't on the same diet and knew them before and after the Fox News consumption will attest that they have been in fact brainwashed by these sources. Russia saw this and took advantage of it.
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Old 11-24-18, 04:17 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
The bigger problem is, there are still people saying Russia meddling either didn’t happen, or that it had zero influence. This despite the overwhelming evidence.

It’s like when New England is caught cheating. Their own fans either down play it, or say it didn’t happen.
On the flipside many in the Democrat bubble are like fans of an opposing team saying New England only won specific game xyz cause they are cheater's. Russia definitely interfered,but is there any tangable proof saying Democrats lost voter total XYZ because people's racist uncle's in addition to FWDing lie's from Info Wars and Breitbart also posted other made up shit from some Foreign Website Trolls funded by Russian Govt. I'd almost equate it to people in sports blaming their Loss on a bad call by the ref's in a close game convenienty ignoring their teams own self inflicted mistakes(IE basket of deplorables,shitty VP Pick,shitty electoral strategy,literally spending less time on the campagn trail then an Obese Man etc.)
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Old 11-24-18, 04:57 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by AaronHernandez View Post
On the flipside many in the Democrat bubble are like fans of an opposing team saying New England only won specific game xyz cause they are cheater's. Russia definitely interfered,but is there any tangable proof saying Democrats lost voter total XYZ because people's racist uncle's in addition to FWDing lie's from Info Wars and Breitbart also posted other made up shit from some Foreign Website Trolls funded by Russian Govt. I'd almost equate it to people in sports blaming their Loss on a bad call by the ref's in a close game convenienty ignoring their teams own self inflicted mistakes(IE basket of deplorables,shitty VP Pick,shitty electoral strategy,literally spending less time on the campagn trail then an Obese Man etc.)
Again, 100% disagree as you would know if you read my previous post. It’s totally and completely BS to call out HRC for mistakes (which she did make) as a reason for losing. She ran a better campaign than Trump.

But 2016 wasn’t about a “better campaign”.

If you want to say’n HRC calling Trump fans “deplorable” was a mistake, I’d say that’s fair (I don’t really agree but can certainly see the arguement). What do you call Trump bragging about sexual assault?

Anything HRC did, you Trump did worse. And more of.

HRC didn’t do anything to lose. Hind sight is 20:20, but she had no major campaign screwups that would derail her. Trump had one seemingly every day and yet “his people” actually loved it.
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Old 11-24-18, 05:16 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
Yup, if he is not forced out from something insurmountable (e.g., criminal prosecution, finally does/says something even his supporters cannot ignore, etc.), it makes no sense for the GOP to work towards his replacement. Let's say someone like Jeff Flake challenges him in the primaries. If Flake fails, all he does is damage Trump the candidate. If he succeeds, he stands almost no chance of beating a Democratic challenger with the charisma of a postage stamp.

A Trump loss or removal in 2020 is actually better for the long term health of the GOP, but I don't think too many people in the GOP think like this.

I actually disagree with this part, which is why I think it's a bad idea for Flake, Romney, Kasich, etc. to try to primary Trump as a Republican. Trump would win that race as he's the incumbent, and all that will do is strengthen Trump and his Trumptards.

What needs to happen is for Kasich to run in the general election as part of the "Conservative Party" to take votes away from Trump and hand the presidency to a Dem. At that point the sane Republicans can start to regroup and take their party back.

Kasich would be committing political suicide, but he'd go down as a national hero.
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Old 11-24-18, 05:37 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by JTH182 View Post
I actually disagree with this part, which is why I think it's a bad idea for Flake, Romney, Kasich, etc. to try to primary Trump as a Republican. Trump would win that race as he's the incumbent, and all that will do is strengthen Trump and his Trumptards.
If Flake were to try and actually win and run the sort of campaign he would need to in order to have a chance, he would attack Trump on multiple fronts. There are a pretty fair number of conservative sacred cows that Trump has not done a very good job of tending. By highlighting these shortcomings in attack ads and during debates, I think this would hurt Trump even if he ultimately prevailed. The "Trumptards" are still only a moderate slice of the party.

Moot point, I think you'll agree. I would be quite shocked if anyone attempted a serious primary challenge.
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Old 11-24-18, 08:29 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by AaronHernandez View Post
On the flipside many in the Democrat bubble are like fans of an opposing team saying New England only won specific game xyz cause they are cheater's. Russia definitely interfered,but is there any tangable proof saying Democrats lost voter total XYZ because people's racist uncle's in addition to FWDing lie's from Info Wars and Breitbart also posted other made up shit from some Foreign Website Trolls funded by Russian Govt. I'd almost equate it to people in sports blaming their Loss on a bad call by the ref's in a close game convenienty ignoring their teams own self inflicted mistakes(IE basket of deplorables,shitty VP Pick,shitty electoral strategy,literally spending less time on the campagn trail then an Obese Man etc.)
Is the standard really that I need to find specific voters who will testify "I was ready to vote for Hillary until I saw a meme about her molesting kids in a pizza parlor, and that's when I switched my vote to Trump"?

It disturbs me that you're willing to make excuse after excuse after excuse for the fact that our President was chosen after a concerted campaign by a cyber superpower to subvert our election.

MYTH NO. 3
Hillary Clinton's inept campaign cost her the election.
After Election Day, the Clinton campaign faced the predictable recriminations. “A series of strategic mistakes likely sealed Clinton’s fate,” including too much time spent attacking Trump, according to The Post. Politico argued that she failed to “get the basics of campaigning right.”


Yet our experiments showed that voters randomly assigned to watch her attack ads on Trump were more likely to support her and less likely to support him. Clinton, we found, did better in media markets where she had a larger advantage in televised advertising, another sign that her ad strategy was sound.

It is true that her field organization was smaller than Obama’s had been in Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin (though not in Michigan) — all states Trump won — but research suggests that the impact of field organizing is modest: We estimate that having a field organization equal to Obama’s wouldn’t have swung these essential battleground states.

We also find little evidence for the arguments that Clinton should have spent more on digital ads, visited Michigan more often or had her field organizers focus on persuading voters rather than mobilizing the Democratic base. Again, research shows that such tactics have small, if any, effects — too small even to shift the outcome in a close election.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.801ed70b024a
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Old 11-24-18, 11:06 PM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Is the standard really that I need to find specific voters who will testify "I was ready to vote for Hillary until I saw a meme about her molesting kids in a pizza parlor, and that's when I switched my vote to Trump"?

It disturbs me that you're willing to make excuse after excuse after excuse for the fact that our President was chosen after a concerted campaign by a cyber superpower to subvert our election.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.801ed70b024a
Trump won Michigan because he ran against free trade and NAFTA, unlike all the centrist Democrats, and most Republicans. I've said that before. Free trade isn't popular here in the rust belt because not enough effort was spent on retraining and education and $$ for people to relocate when the jobs from free trade fled to China and Mexico and such.
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Old 11-25-18, 12:35 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey View Post
Trump won Michigan because he ran against free trade and NAFTA.
Trump and the GOP were good at being against things. Everything that Obama did would be replaced with something else that would be the greatest, most beautiful and most amazing -- nobody knew what that was, and the two years of his presidency has shown that it was all bullshit from someone who is totally clueless about how the world runs. He doesn't understand health care, immigration, nuclear disarmament, forest fire, freedom of the press, nothing... It would be easier for all of us, and them too, if they would go back and be the party of opposition forever.

Last edited by Psi; 11-25-18 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 11-25-18, 03:08 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
Trump and the GOP were good at being against things. Everything that Obama did would be replaced with something else that would be the greatest, most beautiful and most amazing -- nobody knew what that was, and the two years of his presidency has shown that it was all bullshit from someone who is totally clueless about how the world runs. He doesn't understand health care, immigration, nuclear disarmament, forest fire, freedom of the press, nothing... It would be easier for all of us, and them too, if they would go back and be the party of opposition forever.
This. This most obvious example being repealing and replacing the ACA. His lies (that it was a failure) finally started to backfire from people who needed it, called out their representatives in town hall meeting across the country. I actually thought this would start a trend.

But it’s a lot easier to oppose something that effects you are a family member. But just not care about another group.
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Old 11-25-18, 08:00 AM
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Re: Official Trump Presidency Thread, Part 2

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The large and violent French protests don’t take into account how badly the United States has been treated on Trade by the European Union or on fair and reasonable payments for our GREAT military protection. Both of these topics must be remedied soon.</p>&mdash; Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1066682146683846657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 25, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Would be very SMART if Mexico would stop the Caravans long before they get to our Southern Border, or if originating countries would not let them form (it is a way they get certain people out of their country and dump in U.S. No longer). Dems created this problem. No crossings!</p>&mdash; Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1066685057648214018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 25, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So great that oil prices are falling (thank you President T). Add that, which is like a big Tax Cut, to our other good Economic news. Inflation down (are you listening Fed)!</p>&mdash; Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1066689688600281088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 25, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

President T
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