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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 09-06-17, 03:42 PM   #26
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
This idea of the magical non-violent protest that touches everyone's hearts and minds and changes everything for the better is yet another myth told by the majority to keep minorities from making real change.

This "correct way to protest" thing is just another method of control.
This is basically what it comes down to, the powers that be want things to stay just the way they are.

Muhamad Ali protested non-violently and lost some of the best years of his career. They'll get you one way or another.
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Old 09-09-17, 11:04 AM   #27
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Spoiler:
Given that yesterday's arguments seem to have spilled into every thread here, I thought I would make a new thread that could keep some of it contained.

Yesterday I was accused of making a "blatantly racist" statement. That statement was that the majority population does not get to tell minorities how they can protest. Only two people seemed to feel this was racist at all, let alone blatantly racist, those being creekdipper and mspmms. Their reasoning appears to be that if the law applies equally to all people under the law, then allowing certain groups to break the law because of their ethnicity/race is racism. This is an extremely flawed argument (unsurprisingly), and I believe that it is mainly due to white supremacy.

Now, before I go any further, let me take some time to discuss white supremacy in America. When I use that term, I'm sure most people think of the KKK, Confederate flags, Neo-Nazis, etc. And those are definitely all white supremacist groups. But they are the most extreme versions of white supremacy, not the sole definition of white supremacy.

To use a forum favorite, "dictionary facts", we get the following definition for white supremacy from dictionary.com: "the belief, theory, or doctrine that white people are inherently superior to people from all other racial groups, especially black people, and are therefore rightfully the dominant group in any society."

This definitely applies to white nationalist groups, the KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc. However, this also applies to most of the white population in America throughout its history. Even before the time Europeans colonized the Americas (two whole continents with no indigenous white people named after a European white male), Europeans had an elevated sense of white superiority. This was brought to its natural conclusion during the colonial/imperial eras, where white people spread across the world enslaving people of color, stealing their land and resources, raping them, and committing genocide. The only reason we exist on this continent at all is because white people felt it was their destiny to conquer these "undiscovered" lands, which also meant conquering and annihilating the people who already lived here.

Once established on this stolen continent, white people began importing Africans by the millions, about 12 million slaves were taken from Africa to the New World, of about which 10 million survived the trip. Roughly 300,000 of these went to North America, although of course since children of slaves were also slaves, that number grew steadily.

When this country was founded (via violent protest and revolution), most of the founders were slave owners. Slaves were Constitutionally enshrined as 3/5 of a person for voting purposes, not that a slave was ever allowed to exercise the vote, but rather their white owners would use their numbers to bolster their votes. Women were not allowed to vote. White men who didn't own a certain level of property weren't allowed to vote. This is the legacy on which our country was built.

Since then, while slavery was abolished and both women and minorities were enfranchised, little has really changed in terms of how America treats minorities. Whether it's the Irish, the Chinese, or Latin Americans, every major immigrant group is treated with scorn and suspicion, blamed for all of America's economic troubles despite the fact that our country relies on such immigration to keep our economy afloat.

Blacks and latinos are incarcerated in massive numbers compared to whites, as shown here:



Black people live in fear of being killed by the police, even if they weren't doing anything.

LGBTQ+ live in fear of being beaten or murdered by those who don't accept them. People who are transgender are currently being discriminated against with nonsensical and flagrantly discriminatory bathroom bills.

I can continue with the list of injustices America perpetuates upon its minorities, but my point here is that these injustices are systemic. They are not random, they are not accidents in the aggregate. We live in a hierarchical society with rich white males on top, less affluent whites just below them, and they sit on the backs of everyone else. This is white supremacy. It's not KKK marching in the streets white supremacy, but then it doesn't have to be. Why draw such obvious attention to the systemic inequities of our country when most people never even question them?

When a black man is shot by a policeman during a traffic stop, most assume it's because the black man didn't follow directions. A white nurse is manhandled and arrested by a cop and the same people are outraged! A white man trying to survive a hurricane is shown on TV "finding" food, while a black man is a "looter". These are all subtle forms of white supremacy that reinforce the idea that white people are inherently superior to other races, and thus deserve special consideration.

The GOP mantra of personal responsibility is a great tool for obscuring white supremacy in this country. The personal responsibility mantra that conservatives harp on endlessly about assumes that no group benefits excessively from the structures of society and no group is excessively harmed by the structures of society. So when a white person prospers, it's because of their own hard work without any help from anyone. Please ignore that this white person probably had better access to education, to networking opportunities, to healthcare, to business loans and home loans, experienced less crime, experienced little to no altercations with the cops or justice system. If a minority fails, it's because of their own laziness or ineptitude. Forget that they were born into a socioeconomic bracket that puts them more at risk in a variety of ways, that they face downward pressure from society in general. And the system allows just a few people to move up the ladder so that conservatives can point to them and say that if they can do it, anyone can. But the larger trends show that's not really the truth. It's a lie conservatives tell themselves and the world to justify inhumane treatment of minorities and the lower classes. Appeals to free market economics are another way of obfuscating the issue, as the vast majority of capitalists, the ones who make the rules in a capitalist system because they own the capital, are white men who wish at all costs to maintain the superiority of white men.

So, to get back to my "blatantly racist" comment (that the majority does not get to tell minorities how to protest). The only way one could find this comment "blatantly racist" is if they consider all minorities to be racial minorities (ignoring women, LGBTQ+, religious minorities, etc.) and also if they consider our systems and institutions to be inherently fair to all. In fact, creekdipper's argument is predicated on the idea that all laws should apply equally to all people.

I have to let you in on a little secret creek, our laws have never applied equally to all people. Our laws have been drafted mainly by white men to serve white men, as is our justice system and most of our institutions. The idea of equal liberty and justice for all is a luxury that for the most part only white people get to experience.

This is why I say you do not get to tell minorities how they should protest. You haven't walked a millimeter in their shoes, let alone a mile. You don't understand the arsenal of societal and institutional inequities that minorities face the moment they're born. You don't know what it's like to live in fear for your life, or your liberty, or to be deported at a moment's notice. You don't know what it's like to be part of a group that is picked off for slave labor in prisons where people are tortured, fed rotten food, denied healthcare. Where cops can shoot you just for walking down the wrong street at night and get off with a slap on the wrist. Where men can drug and rape you and get off with probation because the judge doesn't want to ruin their future.

You don't get to tell people that laws that don't protect them, laws that often actively harm them, are the laws they have to obey when they protest. But then, you wield the law as a weapon, and have had no problem suggesting doing away with laws that protect minorities. You use principles of free speech and freedom of religion to preach stripping people of their rights.


Creek, you're a white supremacist. Not in the KKK marching in the street sense, but in the sense that you enjoy the comforts of a system designed to elevate white men above all others, and you seek to expand those systems. Mspmms, you are too. And DVD Polizei and Mabuse. But I'm not saying this to shame you. I'm saying this in the hopes that you'll break out of the paradigm you exist in, and begin to see things from another perspective, a more nuanced perspective, and help to break the cycle of white supremacy that plagues this country.
Spoiler:

Side note: I know I put creek on ignore, but as he was making extreme claims about me and misrepresenting my statements, I felt it was necessary to respond. Further, as I mentioned before, this is an attempt to contain the posts that are spilling out across multiple threads right now.
DVD Talk better start doing something about these accusations, or they will be partnering in the slanderous, libelous, and defamation statements which are hurtful to the posters mentioned.

Admins and mods...do your jobs.

Blatantly accusing others of racism is wrong. And when you allow such an echo chamber like this forum to continue, it will only get worse. Whether this is by design, I'm not entirely sure, but this forum is certainly not a place for discussion anymore.
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Old 09-09-17, 02:41 PM   #28
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
DVD Talk better start doing something about these accusations, or they will be partnering in the slanderous, libelous, and defamation statements which are hurtful to the posters mentioned.
I doubt that's a thing. Have you ever been to Youtube, Twitter, Breitbart, InfoWars, or any other news publication comments section? They're full of crazy people. Am I going to get sued for calling them crazy people? I'd imagine there would be some kind of precedent set by now about such comments.

My method is to stay away from these type of exchanges.
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Old 09-09-17, 02:47 PM   #29
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
DVD Talk better start doing something about these accusations, or they will be partnering in the slanderous, libelous, and defamation statements which are hurtful to the posters mentioned.

Admins and mods...do your jobs.

Blatantly accusing others of racism is wrong. And when you allow such an echo chamber like this forum to continue, it will only get worse. Whether this is by design, I'm not entirely sure, but this forum is certainly not a place for discussion anymore.


Truth hurts, I suppose.
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Old 09-09-17, 03:07 PM   #30
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
the slanderous, libelous, and defamation statements

Is your REAL name DVD Polizei? Does anyone here even know your real name?
No? Then none of these terms apply, comrade.

Bonus points if you can use your Logic 101 skills to show how anyone has been "slanderous" on a website full of text.
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Old 09-09-17, 03:26 PM   #31
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by Dan View Post

Is your REAL name DVD Polizei? Does anyone here even know your real name?
No? Then none of these terms apply, comrade.

Bonus points if you can use your Logic 101 skills to show how anyone has been "slanderous" on a website full of text.
His name is indeed really DVDPolizei, and IRL he's incredibly liberal, so we do need to be careful with the labels we throw about!
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Old 09-09-17, 03:32 PM   #32
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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His name is indeed really DVDPolizei, and IRL he's incredibly liberal, so we do need to be careful with the labels we throw about!
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Originally Posted by Dan View Post

Is your REAL name DVD Polizei? Does anyone here even know your real name?
No? Then none of these terms apply, comrade.

Bonus points if you can use your Logic 101 skills to show how anyone has been "slanderous" on a website full of text.
Echo chamber! (of common sense)
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Old 09-09-17, 03:43 PM   #33
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Echo chamber! (of common sense)
I know we're not supposed to talk about other members here, but wanted to point out that Polizei is a family man, as well. 2 kids, little Blu-ray and baby 4k Polizei ...
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Old 09-09-17, 03:46 PM   #34
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

Yes, I do have two cute high-def kids. My wife is still Beta.
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Old 09-09-17, 03:48 PM   #35
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Yes, I do have two cute high-def kids. My wife is still Beta.
I've been meaning to ask how great uncle Victrola is ...
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Old 09-09-17, 03:51 PM   #36
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

He can't hear worth a damn. And I stopped cutting his lawn because he would chase me down the street.

But seriously, accusing other members of this forum of being supremacists doesn't get anywhere in a discussion and should not be encouraged by those who are in charge of this forum's guidelines.
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Old 09-09-17, 04:50 PM   #37
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
But seriously, accusing other members of this forum of being supremacists doesn't get anywhere in a discussion
Not sure you can define posting with some of them as discussion.
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Old 09-09-17, 05:08 PM   #38
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

Is it really a false accusation if one can back it up with years of posts featuring strong evidence?

I've been called a Social Justice Warrior. I can't deny the evidence supporting that found in many of my posts
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Old 09-09-17, 05:17 PM   #39
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Creek, you're a white supremacist. Not in the KKK marching in the street sense, but in the sense that you enjoy the comforts of a system designed to elevate white men above all others, and you seek to expand those systems. Mspmms, you are too. And DVD Polizei and Mabuse. But I'm not saying this to shame you. I'm saying this in the hopes that you'll break out of the paradigm you exist in, and begin to see things from another perspective, a more nuanced perspective, and help to break the cycle of white supremacy that plagues this country.
I seek to expand it? Where's your proof of that?
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Old 09-09-17, 05:23 PM   #40
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

I'm a brown guy what grew up in white, affluent, country-club America. As a teen I mocked the progressive left because why not? I was living a privileged, comfortable existence.

Then I stepped outside of my bubble.

Holy.

Fucking.

Turdnuggets.

Nothing like that first college party off-campus, what when you're peacefully sharing a joint with three white friends, getting accosted by Boston police, they get a talking-to, you get knocked around with the business end of a flashlight.
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Old 09-09-17, 06:37 PM   #41
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Is it really a false accusation if one can back it up with years of posts featuring strong evidence?
I don't remember anyone providing years of posts to back up their accusations, let alone even a few posts. We have comments saying one particular color of people are racist, and they get away with it. Somehow that is acceptable behavior here.

All I see is knee-jerk accusations, and the usual group of posters agreeing with them. This forum has simply become an extremely hateful collection of a small minority of people on DVD Talk, who claim they are one thing, but actually represent the same groups they detest and despise.

One poster creates a thread that apologizes for their behavior then a few weeks later accuses people of being white supremacists. Sounds like more of a prescribed medication scarcity issue, but still, the accusations are ridiculous and just enable the politics forum to be more like an Antifa Forum.

This is not a politics forum anymore. It is a forum of a group of people who are getting a pass with accusing others of unsubstantiated things that are extremist in nature, just because their political party lost the election, and for some reason, they are being protected from any sort of warning or discipline. I find that a rather pathetic excuse to justify the types of behavior here as well as having this forum to be a place to go for discussion.

And once again, just because somebody disagrees with a certain political view...does not make them a White Supremacist. Being anti-illegal immigration, is not racist. Disagreeing about a cop who shot a minority...is not being racist. It's simply disagreeing with the situation.

White Supremacism is the belief that Whites are superior to all other races, and all other races are inherently inferior. I don't believe this at all. Never have.
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Old 09-09-17, 07:57 PM   #42
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

Look....I won't speak for you. I'll speak for me.

Several years ago when I saw a unarmed black guy get shot by a white cop, my first thought was always "I'll never get shot by a cop because I'll never do anything wrong".

It took a long time. And a of reflection to realize how racist that thought was. Was it "White Supremacist" rasist? Maybe, maybe not.

But I realized that I had a comfort level that I'd never get shot by a cop. It was because I was a white dude.

I have an amazing friend. She is a young Asian women. I can't even describe the regular, often obscene, things she goes through on a daily basis. From old white dudes who think they just r paying a compliment (but would never say the exact same thing to a white chick)

I know I'll never talk you into anything. I'm just asking you take a big step back. Take an inventory. Are you really scared of illigal immigrants or of those just south of the boarder? Do you care that DACA members here have substantially less crime than us white guys?
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Old 09-09-17, 08:31 PM   #43
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

You think that believing you won't get shot by a cop because you won't do anything wrong is somehow being racist? Sorry, but I don't follow that line of thinking. You'll have to walk me through that one.

Because I'm only concerned with what I did wrong. I don't care what color the cop is, or even my color. All I care about, is am I following the rules, what I did or did not do wrong, and what I can do to resolve it. I've had an asshole cop give me a ticket in the past, and I went to court to have the fines reduced to a fraction of what he wrote me up for. But that's how I handled it. I didn't care about his ethnic race. All I cared about, was that he was rather rude and a jerk (and told the judge as much).

Also, to have the mindset that you won't get shot by a cop is interesting, as I don't particularly think about it. Sure, I could get pulled over and do something that will get me shot. Because you're assuming from your statement that only non-Whites get shot by cops and that is certainly not the case. So, to think you won't get shot by a cop because you didn't something wrong, doesn't make much sense. People of all races and colors...have been shot by cops. Both for justified and unjustified reasons.

Quote:
I know I'll never talk you into anything. I'm just asking you take a big step back. Take an inventory. Are you really scared of illigal immigrants or of those just south of the boarder? Do you care that DACA members here have substantially less crime than us white guys?
I have no reason to be scared of illegal immigrants. It's simply a legal thing. Why is it so difficult to understand this. They are breaking the law. Period. Why should we give them so many rights (healthcare, telling LE to not report to ICE, voting rights even) when we have actual citizens who are in need. Legal, American citizens come first. That's not a racist belief. That's simply a legal belief. That's simply a belief that says hey, follow the laws like the rest of us. We pull our own load...you can pull yours, too.

As to DACA, maybe the kids should be asking their parents why, after being in the US for a decade or more, haven't made attempts to become a US Citizen so they could get an education without the fear of having a vary controversial program that has not been ruled legal by SCOTUS? The fault is on the parents. They decided to break the law. They should pay the consequences. If the kids are in the middle, they need to blame their parents...not our legal system.

You'd think in California, the Sanctuary State, would be pro-legal citizenship, helping illegals become legal. But it's just the opposite. California wants to illegals...to remain illegal. Why is that. Why are they making children suffer because of the crimes of their parents?

And now you bring some statistic that says white guys commit more crimes than DACA children. Ok, so now we're going to throw out the legal system, and just use comparisons to make laws? So, if a 30-year old male rapes one woman, but a 50-year old guy rapes three women, are you now going to say let's let all 30-year old males convicted of rape go free because they are statistically "raping less"?

You commit a crime. You pay for it. Whether it's a fine, jail time, or both...you pay for it. That is our system. It's not perfect, but it sure is much better than a lot of other systems in the world, and is certainly better than your Comparison Criminal system that is a little scary, I have to say.
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Old 09-09-17, 08:40 PM   #44
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
You think that believing you won't get shot by a cop because you won't do anything wrong is somehow being racist? Sorry, but I don't follow that line of thinking. You'll have to walk me through that one.

Because I'm only concerned with what I did wrong. I don't care what color the cop is, or even my color. All I care about, is am I following the rules, what I did or did not do wrong, and what I can do to resolve it. I've had an asshole cop give me a ticket in the past, and I went to court to have the fines reduced to a fraction of what he wrote me up for. But that's how I handled it. I didn't care about his ethnic race. All I cared about, was that he was rather rude and a jerk (and told the judge as much).
To walk you through it, what did these unarmed black guys do that dissevered to get shot?

U make the point. It's not about you. You got a ticket reduced! Cool! How often does a black dude get anything reduced?

As for DACA, please. The "kids" should be asking....

Seriously....wtf! Do you as a white guy ONLY depend on laws that the SC has viewed? Or do U depend on you being white that all is good?

Just listen to yourself...

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Old 09-09-17, 08:54 PM   #45
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
To walk you through it, what did these unarmed black guys do that dissevered to get shot?

U make the point. It's not about you. You got a ticket reduced! Cool! How often does a black dude get anything reduced?
Now you're implying Black males who get speeding tickets, never go to court to get their speeding tickets reduced.

See, that's how I see your statements. When you make those statements, you're making it look like it's either all white people can get their tickets reduced and all blacks cannot and do not because they are being prevented at the racist gates of the county courts.

I think you and I know this is not the case. I've commented on law enforcement making decisions that were both good and bad. I don't always defend every situation. And even sometimes...I'm wrong. But that doesn't make me racist.

Side question.

Which of the following would get a warning on a speeding ticket:

1) Attractive Black woman

2) 55-year old bald White male
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Old 09-09-17, 09:02 PM   #46
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Now you're implying Black males who get speeding tickets, never go to court to get their speeding tickets reduced.

See, that's how I see your statements. When you make those statements, you're making it look like it's either all white people can get their tickets reduced and all blacks cannot and do not because they are being prevented at the racist gates of the county courts.

I think you and I know this is not the case. I've commented on law enforcement making decisions that were both good and bad. I don't always defend every situation. And even sometimes...I'm wrong. But that doesn't make me racist.

Side question.

Which of the following would get a warning on a speeding ticket:

1) Attractive Black woman

2) 55-year old bald White male
Cute.

Which is more likely to get shot?

1) white guy with a gun

2) black guy that police "thinks" he has a gun?

And no, that's not what I'm implying. What I'm stating is who is more likely to get their parking ticket reduced? It's not that a black guy has never had that happen.

Who is more Lille to be pulled over? It's not that a white dude has never been pulled over. But what is more likely?

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Old 09-09-17, 09:09 PM   #47
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

You sound like CNN. Do you really believe that an unarmed man, no matter what race he is does not pose a threat to a LEO? Why do you insist it's wrong for a cop to shoot an unarmed suspect in every case?
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Old 09-09-17, 09:16 PM   #48
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Bottomtime View Post
You sound like CNN. Do you really believe that an unarmed man, no matter what race he is does not pose a threat to a LEO? Why do you insist it's wrong for a cop to shoot an unarmed suspect in every case?
Seriously?


How about coming up to the real world
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Old 09-09-17, 10:58 PM   #49
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

Really.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/justic...hot/index.html
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Old 09-09-17, 11:15 PM   #50
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Re: On white supremacy, minority relations, and how to protest

Yeah a lot of racist have a funny way of looking at the murderous piece shit cop.
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