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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 08-03-17, 10:34 AM   #51
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Furthermore, if a woman was born with female genitalia and hormones but whose reproductive system does not work, is she not a genuine woman?
I discovered long ago (because at the time it might have applied to my wife) just how many "sex is only for reproduction" crazies out there believe exactly that. It's another bullet point on their women are not actually equal, and should be submitting to men, diatribe.

As for the original question, it's amazing that this thread is ongoing since it was clearly answered by you and others in the first few posts. Short of some act during the encounter that has nothing to do with one of the participants being transgender, that leaves only the possibility of deception causing it to be rape. So unless somebody is one of those bigoted people that refuses to acknowledge people can be legitimately transgender, they would understand there is no deception involved with the person simply being transgender.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 08-03-17 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 08-03-17, 10:37 AM   #52
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Do you think it would be ok for a tran woman to get married to a guy without disclosing this? "Oh guess what honey, I used to be male so i can't have any children. Hope you are ok with that".
If the couple was stupid enough to get married without discussing their shared views on having children, that is what divorce (and possible even annulment) is for.
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Old 08-03-17, 10:38 AM   #53
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Movieguru, when it comes to having sex, how are the differences between a trans person and a non-trans person relevant? Consenting adults are engaging in a mutually agreed upon act. How does one of those people being trans change that act?
So this may sound bad, and I don't agree with this, but I think one of the reasons that some straight guys get upset about having sex with trans women is that they see them as "dirty". If you go back and look at porn (where a lot of guys are first exposed to transwomen) you will see guys fucking women without condoms, but then when they fuck trans women, they use condoms (I'm not sure if this is still the case, but it was for a long time). You even have the case of a very famous porn director who went to brazil and got HIV from a transwomen. Add to that the studies I remember reading online about how transwomen have a much higher rate of being homeless and ending up as sex workers, and I can see how some men could have real issues about STDs when it comes to sex with transwomen (whether it is a real danger, or imagined).
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Old 08-03-17, 10:38 AM   #54
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

But why is it that wrong for only the trans woman?

If I as a cisgender male marry a cisgender woman who then after a year or two wants kids I say "oh I had a vasectomy years ago, no kids" is that ok? Of course not.

And why is "respect" only an issue for the trans person? Is it ok to brag about being a rich Ad Exec to pick up a chick in a bar to bang even though I'm a poor, unemployed bum?

Totally for everyone being respectful to everyone. It's the singling out of "they" need to be respectful that is bothersome.
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Old 08-03-17, 10:43 AM   #55
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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But why is it that wrong for only the trans woman?
Because it's really just and end around attempt to yet again discriminate against LGBT individuals.
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Old 08-03-17, 10:44 AM   #56
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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So this may sound bad, and I don't agree with this, but I think one of the reasons that some straight guys get upset about having sex with trans women is that they see them as "dirty". If you go back and look at porn (where a lot of guys are first exposed to transwomen) you will see guys fucking women without condoms, but then when they fuck trans women, they use condoms (I'm not sure if this is still the case, but it was for a long time). You even have the case of a very famous porn director who went to brazil and got HIV from a transwomen. Add to that the studies I remember reading online about how transwomen have a much higher rate of being homeless and ending up as sex workers, and I can see how some men could have real issues about STDs when it comes to sex with transwomen (whether it is a real danger, or imagined).
Not that I would know, or acknowledge that I watch that stuff more than I care to admit it's not all condom anymore. You're right though that category is dominated by condom use but I think that has more to do with the countries that most of them originate from and not the fact that they still have a penis.
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Old 08-03-17, 10:47 AM   #57
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
So this may sound bad, and I don't agree with this, but I think one of the reasons that some straight guys get upset about having sex with trans women is that they see them as "dirty". If you go back and look at porn (where a lot of guys are first exposed to transwomen) you will see guys fucking women without condoms, but then when they fuck trans women, they use condoms (I'm not sure if this is still the case, but it was for a long time). You even have the case of a very famous porn director who went to brazil and got HIV from a transwomen. Add to that the studies I remember reading online about how transwomen have a much higher rate of being homeless and ending up as sex workers, and I can see how some men could have real issues about STDs when it comes to sex with transwomen (whether it is a real danger, or imagined).
I guess that's possible, but I think the simplest answer is latent homophobia coupled with the erroneous thinking that a trans woman is really a man in disguise (and therefore just existing as a trans woman is a trick to lure men).
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Old 08-03-17, 10:51 AM   #58
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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I guess that's possible, but I think the simplest answer is latent homophobia coupled with the erroneous thinking that a trans woman is really a man in disguise (and therefore just existing as a trans woman is a trick to lure men).
Ding ding ding. It's been my experience that many people who aren't gay or transgender have a difficult time understanding how anyone else could be.
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Old 08-03-17, 10:59 AM   #59
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

the only rape is what Trump is doing to America
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Old 08-03-17, 11:08 AM   #60
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Ding ding ding. It's been my experience that many people who aren't gay or transgender have a difficult time understanding how anyone else could be.

I hate to link to yet another Contrapoints video (actually, I don't. I think Contrapoints is awesome) but this short film may be one of the best dramatic portrayals of gender dysphoria. Even allies should check it out.

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Old 08-03-17, 11:12 AM   #61
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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the only rape is what Trump is doing to America
And so we move from one overblown claim of rape to another. The word 'rape' has a real meaning. Trying to enact laws that you don't agree with doesn't qualify.
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Old 08-03-17, 11:17 AM   #62
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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But why is it that wrong for only the trans woman?

If I as a cisgender male marry a cisgender woman who then after a year or two wants kids I say "oh I had a vasectomy years ago, no kids" is that ok? Of course not.

And why is "respect" only an issue for the trans person? Is it ok to brag about being a rich Ad Exec to pick up a chick in a bar to bang even though I'm a poor, unemployed bum?

Totally for everyone being respectful to everyone. It's the singling out of "they" need to be respectful that is bothersome.
Actually wasn't there a case a few years back where a guy was pretending to be a Hollywood movie director and getting women to sllep with him under the guise that he would then get them parts in movies do to his influence as a director. When it was discovered he was arrested and charged. i can't remember if the charges were for rape or not but it could have been.
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Old 08-03-17, 11:34 AM   #63
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Actually wasn't there a case a few years back where a guy was pretending to be a Hollywood movie director and getting women to sllep with him under the guise that he would then get them parts in movies do to his influence as a director. When it was discovered he was arrested and charged. i can't remember if the charges were for rape or not but it could have been.
That's not the same thing. If a trans person were sleeping with people under the false pretense that the sex would land them a job the trans person cannot offer, the false pretense is the job offer, not the trans element of it.
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Old 08-03-17, 11:48 AM   #64
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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I was commenting on the exact words you wrote (taking them at their face value) and the implications of those words by way of omission.
Which is it? Face value or implications by way of omission?

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Never once did I ascribe any ill motives on your part or put words into your mouth.
I didn't say you did.

Going back to what I actually wrote, timber suggested, questioning,
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If it's rape when a woman goes from yes to no mid act
And I said, in direct response to that:
if one party flat-out says no or stop at any point, or worse, passes out, then consent is revoked.

My written response was about, and only about, what Timber said. No means no, and it doesn't matter exactly when it happens.

You responded saying that universities disagree with me. It seems that they don't. Rather, they disagree with the argument you seem to think I made, which I didn't make. I'm glad we were able to clear this up.
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Old 08-03-17, 11:54 AM   #65
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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I hate to link to yet another Contrapoints video (actually, I don't. I think Contrapoints is awesome) but this short film may be one of the best dramatic portrayals of gender dysphoria. Even allies should check it out.

https://youtu.be/Ayuqizp4fyY
Great video, thank you for sharing!
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Old 08-03-17, 11:57 AM   #66
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

I love it not just because it's fascinating to get inside the mind of someone else (which is fascinating) but also because of that A++ Cronenberg line in that hospital room scene.
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Old 08-03-17, 12:02 PM   #67
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Yes, it's got some nice surreal touches to it.
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Old 08-03-17, 12:07 PM   #68
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

Off topic, but seriously check out the rest of their stuff on YouTube. The "debating the alt right" and "does the left hate free speech" videos are excellent, among many others.
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Old 08-03-17, 02:32 PM   #69
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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I maintain that if people actually TOOK THE TIME TO GET TO KNOW a person BEFORE they fuck them, then this situation, no matter how female the Transperson looks, will never happen.

That's an excellent point.

Anyway, I don't think it's rape. I do think it's morally wrong to trick people like that. But like you said, just take time to get to know the person.

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Old 08-03-17, 02:45 PM   #70
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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Anyway, I don't think it's rape. I do think it's morally wrong to trick people like that. But like you said, just take time to get to know the person.
How is it a "trick"? Is it a trick if a woman doesn't tell a man she suffers from depression before they have sex?
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Old 08-03-17, 03:03 PM   #71
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

I agree, there's no trickery in being who you are.
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Old 08-03-17, 04:24 PM   #72
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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That's an excellent point.

Anyway, I don't think it's rape. I do think it's morally wrong to trick people like that. But like you said, just take time to get to know the person.
OOH, this reminds me of a story a friend told me about a trip to the bath house. Apparently, he stuck he weenie into a gloryhole, and had the most amazing BJ. After it was done, a little person popped out from behind the wall, laughed, and said "Got ya!!"

I guess it goes to show you, you shouldn't make assumptions about anything involving your wiener.
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Old 08-03-17, 04:30 PM   #73
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

This thread is like an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm without the jokes
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Old 08-03-17, 05:10 PM   #74
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

For the record, it is rape. But it isn't RAPE rape.
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Old 08-03-17, 05:31 PM   #75
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Re: Would You Consider This RAPE?

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I'm glad we were able to clear this up.
Me, too.

I'm always in favor of your clearing up any confusing statements.
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