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2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Old 10-04-18, 08:09 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
Menendez is now out to a double-digit lead in New Jersey so the worries of of the Demos dropping that seat are now greatly lessened.
Shit. He fucking took bribes, and people still hate Republicans more.
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Old 10-04-18, 08:25 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
Shit. He fucking took bribes, and people still hate Republicans more.
Well, it is New Jersey after all.
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Old 10-08-18, 11:19 AM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

You'd think that the GOP cramming in a belligerent, drunken grabass into the Supreme Court would be enough to energize the Dems, but who am I kidding? They will stay home because "the Blue Wave is inevitable, I don't need to vote!" Or they will vote for some wackadoodle third party candidate wearing a Guy Fawkes mask because "the Dem candidate isn't socialist enough".
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Old 10-08-18, 11:44 AM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
Shit. He fucking took bribes, and people still hate Republicans more.
I don't think it has anything to do with them hating Republicans, it is one of the bluest states in the Country. It has gone to every Democrat Presidential Candidate since 1992 (usually by double digits), and they haven't elected a Republican Senator since the 1970's. NJ has 2 big urban cities (Camden and Newark) that draw a heavy minority vote, and many upper class suburbs that tend to vote more liberal. NJ just doesn't have a big rural population like Western PA to make this state more Red, so obviously a Democrat has a big advantage in registered voters. The only time Republicans win is for Governor as Whitman and Christie both won 2 terms, but those elections bring out more independent voters.

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
You'd think that the GOP cramming in a belligerent, drunken grabass into the Supreme Court would be enough to energize the Dems, but who am I kidding? They will stay home because "the Blue Wave is inevitable, I don't need to vote!" Or they will vote for some wackadoodle third party candidate wearing a Guy Fawkes mask because "the Dem candidate isn't socialist enough".
I think the Democrats are very motivated as they have led the generic polls by 8-10 points throughout the year. The Kavanaugh hearings is what energized the Republicans as that generic vote is down to 3-4 points when I checked last weekend (It is fluid so I don't know what it is today). I think Dems will turn out, but the difference between a few weeks ago is now Republicans will turn out too and that probably cost the Democrats the Senate and maybe even the House.
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Old 10-08-18, 12:01 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
You'd think that the GOP cramming in a belligerent, drunken grabass into the Supreme Court would be enough to energize the Dems, but who am I kidding? They will stay home because "the Blue Wave is inevitable, I don't need to vote!" Or they will vote for some wackadoodle third party candidate wearing a Guy Fawkes mask because "the Dem candidate isn't socialist enough".
This.

A local weekly ran an opinion piece from a commentator, who did a pretty harsh criticism of the Kavanaugh affair. I agreed with every word. But one thing she said that worried me was "Joe Biden, don't you dare think of running for president" (She lumped him in with McConnell, due to his leading of the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings). Now while I agree with her sentiment, I can tell you that if I get into the voting booth in 2020 and there's two names, Biden and Trump, I'm inking in the little black oval next to Biden's name. But I'll bet anything that she won't.
And all the Republicans who complain about Trump, how he's wrecked the once-respectable GOP, I'll make the same bet that they vote Trump anyway when it comes down to it.
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Old 10-08-18, 12:51 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
You'd think that the GOP cramming in a belligerent, drunken grabass into the Supreme Court would be enough to energize the Dems, but who am I kidding? They will stay home because "the Blue Wave is inevitable, I don't need to vote!" Or they will vote for some wackadoodle third party candidate wearing a Guy Fawkes mask because "the Dem candidate isn't socialist enough".
Most socialists aren’t Democrats to begin with. And Democrats aren’t owed our votes. They have to earn them. Most Democrats are neoliberal corporatists.

That being said, I’m also a realist enough to recognize that there aren’t many socialist names on a given ballot anyway, so I usually vote D, but I’m not naive enough to think that the Democrats will materially improve conditions for most people in this country. I do think they’re not actively trying to destroy the country at the moment, so for now I’ll take it.
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Old 10-08-18, 02:17 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by coli View Post
I think the Democrats are very motivated as they have led the generic polls by 8-10 points throughout the year. The Kavanaugh hearings is what energized the Republicans as that generic vote is down to 3-4 points when I checked last weekend (It is fluid so I don't know what it is today). I think Dems will turn out, but the difference between a few weeks ago is now Republicans will turn out too and that probably cost the Democrats the Senate and maybe even the House.
There's plenty of time for Republicans to fall asleep again. They control every aspect of government now and are not climbing to get to anything. There is still a month before election day.
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Old 10-08-18, 02:47 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Most socialists aren’t Democrats to begin with. And Democrats aren’t owed our votes. They have to earn them. Most Democrats are neoliberal corporatists.

That being said, I’m also a realist enough to recognize that there aren’t many socialist names on a given ballot anyway, so I usually vote D, but I’m not naive enough to think that the Democrats will materially improve conditions for most people in this country. I do think they’re not actively trying to destroy the country at the moment, so for now I’ll take it.
And that’s the difference between democrats and republicans.

The liberal wing has all of these deal breakers, and will refuse to vote for candidates who aren’t lefty enough for them on the assumption that a moderate democrat is no different from a republican. See Susan Sarandon.

But republicans are fucking loyal to their party. They get off of their asses and vote in every election and primary. No election is too small. They march to the polling place and cast their votes down the line. They don’t care if their guy is a rapist, crook, or chomo. As far as they’re concerned, the chomo is better than a democrat.

Until the far left can figure that out and stop throwing away their votes on Jill Stein or staying at home butthurt because Bernie didn’t get the nomination, the democrats are going to keep getting steamrolled. Ultimately, they need to do what the republicans do and vote against the party they see as less bad instead of waiting for the perfect candidate.
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Old 10-08-18, 03:04 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Today I learned what "chomo" means. Huh.
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Old 10-08-18, 03:30 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
And that’s the difference between democrats and republicans.

The liberal wing has all of these deal breakers, and will refuse to vote for candidates who aren’t lefty enough for them on the assumption that a moderate democrat is no different from a republican. See Susan Sarandon.

But republicans are fucking loyal to their party. They get off of their asses and vote in every election and primary. No election is too small. They march to the polling place and cast their votes down the line. They don’t care if their guy is a rapist, crook, or chomo. As far as they’re concerned, the chomo is better than a democrat.

Until the far left can figure that out and stop throwing away their votes on Jill Stein or staying at home butthurt because Bernie didn’t get the nomination, the democrats are going to keep getting steamrolled. Ultimately, they need to do what the republicans do and vote against the party they see as less bad instead of waiting for the perfect candidate.
I get what you're saying. I really do. However, maybe the Republicans keep voting because the party keeps on damn pulling to the right. Why wouldn't they be happy to vote for that? It's just annoying that the Democratic party doesn't seem to want to pull left, but seem content to get dragged right, but at a slower pace. The Republican party was fine with letting the crazies run their party because that's really who they were all along.

Why can't the Democrats at least get dragged closer to the progressive crazies that I find more in common with?
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Old 10-08-18, 03:41 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
And that’s the difference between democrats and republicans.

The liberal wing has all of these deal breakers, and will refuse to vote for candidates who aren’t lefty enough for them on the assumption that a moderate democrat is no different from a republican. See Susan Sarandon.

But republicans are fucking loyal to their party. They get off of their asses and vote in every election and primary. No election is too small. They march to the polling place and cast their votes down the line. They don’t care if their guy is a rapist, crook, or chomo. As far as they’re concerned, the chomo is better than a democrat.

Until the far left can figure that out and stop throwing away their votes on Jill Stein or staying at home butthurt because Bernie didn’t get the nomination, the democrats are going to keep getting steamrolled. Ultimately, they need to do what the republicans do and vote against the party they see as less bad instead of waiting for the perfect candidate.
The flip side of this is that in recent years Republicans have voted for con men, fascists, pedophiles, etc. And because every election is framed as the most vital in all of human civilization, the left is always told to vote for the lesser of two evils and the things they actually care about are once again put on the back burner.

The other difference between the left and the right is that the left’s policies are actually very popular with working and middle class people, but extremely unpopular with the rich, and since the rich can pour unlimited money into politics, own the news outlets, etc, they have to use underhanded tricks to fool people into thinking that the interests of the rich also benefit the rest of us. And when that won’t work, it’s straight to voter suppression/intimidation, cozying up to fascists, etc. Part of the reason those on the left are more adamant about electing actual leftists is because we want people to benefit from real leftist policies, and not neoliberal garbage.
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Old 10-08-18, 03:54 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
You'd think that the GOP cramming in a belligerent, drunken grabass into the Supreme Court would be enough to energize the Dems, but who am I kidding? They will stay home because "the Blue Wave is inevitable, I don't need to vote!" Or they will vote for some wackadoodle third party candidate wearing a Guy Fawkes mask because "the Dem candidate isn't socialist enough".
Well done. This is the good old Groucho I prefer.
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Old 10-09-18, 02:41 AM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
The other difference between the left and the right is that the left’s policies are actually very popular with working and middle class people
Speaking as someone from Middle America, I don’t see that at all.

I mean, on the surface, things like “affordable healthcare” and “living wage” sound good during a telephone poll, but someone will invariably tie the s-word or c-word to them, and support will immediately evaporate.

Go to Nebraska or Kansas or Oklahoma or Texas or Alabama, and see just how popular things like socialized healthcare, gun control, minimum wages increases, and everything else “left” is with the working classes there.

The blue collar and white working poor are about as hard right as you can get. The people who have been fucked over and left behind by the system are its biggest cheerleaders. They are not only socially conservative, but have wholly embraced the laissez faire economics of the Koch wing as well.

It’s going to be an uphill battle to win those people over. There’s a monstrous and well-funded propaganda apparatus in place that keeps Middle America angry, resentful, and fully under control, and I don’t think that’s something that will be overcome in our lifetimes.
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Old 10-09-18, 09:52 AM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Come on .... Ted.

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Old 10-09-18, 10:01 AM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Wasn't there some survey where the people you mention were asked about the individual aspects of the ACA? Things like no pre-existing conditions, kids can stay on parents' insurance till 25, etc, they were overwhelmingly in favor of. But then asked what they thought about "Obamacare" and it was a big thumbs down.

Ron White said it best. You can't fix stupid.
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Old 10-09-18, 01:38 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
Come on .... Ted.

I hadn't seen that yet, but I love it!
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Old 10-09-18, 04:59 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Apparently, "Tough" means backing out of debates and town halls.

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Old 10-09-18, 05:01 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Cellar Door View Post
I hadn't seen that yet, but I love it!
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Old 10-09-18, 09:16 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Well done. This is the good old Groucho I prefer.
Groucho lives in Utah. Voters there might hate Trump, but they'll still vote Republican.
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Old 10-09-18, 09:35 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
Come on .... Ted.

Directed by Richard Linklater.
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Old 10-09-18, 09:35 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Speaking as someone from Middle America, I don’t see that at all.

I mean, on the surface, things like “affordable healthcare” and “living wage” sound good during a telephone poll, but someone will invariably tie the s-word or c-word to them, and support will immediately evaporate.

Go to Nebraska or Kansas or Oklahoma or Texas or Alabama, and see just how popular things like socialized healthcare, gun control, minimum wages increases, and everything else “left” is with the working classes there.

The blue collar and white working poor are about as hard right as you can get. The people who have been fucked over and left behind by the system are its biggest cheerleaders. They are not only socially conservative, but have wholly embraced the laissez faire economics of the Koch wing as well.

It’s going to be an uphill battle to win those people over. There’s a monstrous and well-funded propaganda apparatus in place that keeps Middle America angry, resentful, and fully under control, and I don’t think that’s something that will be overcome in our lifetimes.
So what your saying is those people lack the education to make an informed decision? Or just agree with the sound bites that the GOP feeds them?

Literally no one is talking “socialized” anything. It’s a straw man arguement. A single payer system (most commonly talked about here) for health care is NOT insurance. It is a payment mechanism. Let me say it again, a payment mechanism. Paid by... wait for it...wIt for it...people.
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Old 10-09-18, 09:48 PM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

I always get a laugh when I hear John Cox (Repub running for Governor of California) say, "I'm not part of the political class....."

Of course if he had managed to win any of the other six or it might be seven other times he had run for a political office he would be part of the political class.
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Old 10-10-18, 05:54 AM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
So what your saying is those people lack the education to make an informed decision? Or just agree with the sound bites that the GOP feeds them?
I wouldn’t say its a matter of education. I think that the real issue is that conservative propagandists are very adept at playing to the Middle American ego. Your typical rural American sees himself as hard-working, noble, righteous, and under siege by outsiders (which include academics, generic liberals, feminists, LGBTs, “elites,” racial minorities) even if none of those things are actually true.

Listen to just about any conservative pundit, andvthatbparticular ego-stroking is always there. The talking heads on Fox News and the disembodies voices on talk radio are constantly signaling to their audience how special they are, and how they are constantly under attack. Sarah Palin’s “real America” comment.

Notice how that segment of the country takes things like the legalization of same sex marriage as a personal attack. It’s something that doesn’t effect them at all, but it puts them into a red-faced rage nonetheless.

Literally no one is talking “socialized” anything. It’s a straw man arguement. A single payer system (most commonly talked about here) for health care is NOT insurance. It is a payment mechanism. Let me say it again, a payment mechanism. Paid by... wait for it...wIt for it...people.
But [insert name] calls it socialized healthcare, and everyone loses their minds. At this point you say “single payer” and 75% of the country hears “SOCIALISM.”

I mean, you can go to “flyover country” and find poor white people with five kids on every kind of government assistance imaginable — medicaid, WIC, food stamps, unemployment, disability, welfare, subsidized housing — ranting about socialist democrats and a culture of dependency. They’re paying their NRA dues with money handed to them by the government they hate.
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Old 10-10-18, 09:25 AM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

As a Missourian, I found this article interesting:
Kavanaugh vote changes few minds in close Missouri U.S. Senate race

I was particularly surprised by this:
The Supreme Court did not rank highly among likely voters’ priorities in the state. Respondents were much more likely to cite healthcare, the economy or immigration as top issues for them when deciding which candidate to support.

Almost no one listed the Supreme Court as the most important issue.
Rural Missouri has a significant contingent of extremely socially conservative voters. I would have thought the Supreme Court would have ranked higher.

This is a key senate race and should be really interesting to see how it plays out.
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Old 10-10-18, 09:50 AM
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Re: 2018 Congressional, Governor, etc election thread

I don't think that the Supreme Court ways highly for most voters.
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