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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 06-17-17, 09:35 PM   #26
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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You're forgetting something on the sanctions--they're preventing Exxon and Rosneft from completing a huge project in the Black Sea that was worth billions of dollars in oil. The sanctions are very much hurting Russia.

The talk I've heard is that Putin is desperate for revenue as low oil prices drastically hurt Russia since it's their primary industry.

I will say that Tillerson's tenure as SOS, so far, is tough to analyze. Certainly, he had a strong relationship with Russia as CEO of Exxon, but that has not appeared to carryover to his tenure as SOS. He also seems to be on a different page than the rest of the admin half the time.
Russia's GDP is smaller than Italy's.

Let that sink in.

As someone else said- Russia is basically a gas station with nukes.
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Old 06-17-17, 09:36 PM   #27
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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You're forgetting something on the sanctions--they're preventing Exxon and Rosneft from completing a huge project in the Black Sea that was worth billions of dollars in oil. The sanctions are very much hurting Russia.

The talk I've heard is that Putin is desperate for revenue as low oil prices drastically hurt Russia since it's their primary industry.

I will say that Tillerson's tenure as SOS, so far, is tough to analyze. Certainly, he had a strong relationship with Russia as CEO of Exxon, but that has not appeared to carryover to his tenure as SOS. He also seems to be on a different page than the rest of the admin half the time.


I would agree, as Tillerson seems look beyond the current administration. Tillerson isn't backing off on sanctions, I think, but he's more pro-Ukraine military defense, which I would support. I think more countries should be independent and be able to defend themselves without the US dedicating a lot of resources. It takes too long. Civilians die. The enemy makes its mark. By the time an incident happens, the US just can't be somewhere at the drop of a hat anymore. The clock ticks and in that span of time, stories are spread, lives are lost, and then the US touches ground with an awkward smile.
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Old 06-17-17, 09:43 PM   #28
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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The other bit about that which I heard, but wasn't included in the Raw Story article, was that Obama was publicly voicing concern that Boente seemed to be a fan of Trumps.

That was the 'presumed' public/private rationale for Obama moving him like that at the last minute.

In reality, he was using reverse psychology. And Trump, ever the child, did exactly what they expected him to do.

Obama wanted Boente exactly where Trump ended up putting him.
I dunno. I think it's more to do with what happens if Boente is gone...

The order:

Section 1. Order of Succession. Subject to the provisions of section 2 of this order, the following officers, in the order listed, shall act as and perform the functions and duties of the office of Attorney General, during any period in which the Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the Associate Attorney General, and any officers designated by the Attorney General pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 508 to act as Attorney General have died, resigned, or otherwise become unable to perform the functions and duties of the office of Attorney General, until such time as at least one of the officers mentioned above is able to perform the functions and duties of that office:

(a) United States Attorney for the District of Columbia;

(b) United States Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois; and

(c) United States Attorney for the Central District of California.


Sec. 2. Exceptions. (a) No individual who is serving in an office listed in section 1 of this order in an acting capacity, by virtue of so serving, shall act as Attorney General pursuant to this order.

(b) No individual listed in section 1 shall act as Attorney General unless that individual is otherwise eligible to so serve under the Federal Vacancies Reform Act of 1998.

(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of this order, the President retains discretion, to the extent permitted by law, to depart from this order in designating an acting Attorney General.
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Old 06-17-17, 09:52 PM   #29
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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I would agree, as Tillerson seems look beyond the current administration. Tillerson isn't backing off on sanctions, I think, but he's more pro-Ukraine military defense, which I would support. I think more countries should be independent and be able to defend themselves without the US dedicating a lot of resources. It takes too long. Civilians die. The enemy makes its mark. By the time an incident happens, the US just can't be somewhere at the drop of a hat anymore. The clock ticks and in that span of time, stories are spread, lives are lost, and then the US touches ground with an awkward smile.
Agreed. And Putin does not want Ukraine to be able to defend itself by any stretch.

I don't really care for Tillerson--he refuses to meet with our press and State has been decimated with job openings, for starters--but if he's in Putin's pocket, so far he's showed it in a weird way. And I know some think they're playing 1037-dimension level chess, but I don't know, I don't think they're that smart.

Furthermore, as intelligent and canny as Obama is, I don't think he's playing multi-dimensional chess either and had Boente inserted as some kind of safeguard. Seems far fetched. However, I do think he announced new Russian sanctions at the end of his term for a couple of reasons: one, because they were warranted, but two, to see what Trump would do. And lo and behold Flynn played right into that by reaching out to the Russian ambassador to discuss. (Then Trump took it further by tweeting that Putin was smart by not responding to the sanctions.)
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Old 06-17-17, 10:23 PM   #30
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Buried in this Politico story on the the strain in the WH as staffers debate lawyering up, is this telling nugget

Quote:
Mueller’s office confirmed for the first time Friday it's been hiring prosecution staff, with 13 lawyers already on board and, according to spokesman Peter Carr, “several more in the pipeline.”
next phase of this might not be too far off.
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Old 06-17-17, 11:18 PM   #31
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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Buried in this Politico story on the the strain in the WH as staffers debate lawyering up, is this telling nugget



next phase of this might not be too far off.
Mueller, like others in his position in the past, will expand the investigation to wherever it leads. I have no problems with this in theory, but Mueller being a Bush Administration loyalist, appoint by Bush, I can already see a retaliation mentality, with Mueller going after anyone just to irritate Trump.

This means innocent people are going to be in the middle of this.

Some might say that's ok, but I don't think the people that would get in the middle of this should suffer, especially when there is circumstantial evidence at best.

We've seen many times in the past where a special counsel or something like it, investigates people who have no connections, but since they are under investigation...there are press leaks about their lifestyles, about their financial affairs, their habits, etc., and it all washes out in the end to be absolutely nothing related to the determination of the investigation itself, and those people's lives are ruined.
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Old 06-18-17, 03:54 AM   #32
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

I said this weeks ago in the other thread- there are going to be innocent people here, staffers who signed on in good faith wanting to serve the new administration, who are going to be financially devastated after legal fees.

But then again, This guy ran the most cynical, poisonous campaign I've ever seen. It's hard to have too much sympathy for anyone that believed in this SOB's world view enough to book passage on this ship.

With Financial skullduggery, espionage, and collusion with a foreign government to destroy the publics faith in it's democratic institutions, I seriously don't think Mueller is looking for extraneous stuff to justify his job here.

This isn't Ken Starr going after Financial Crimes, coming up completely empty and then playing gotcha with GJ testimony over a BJ. Sure, Clinton was a smarmy scumbag- especially for taking advantage of a starry eyed, power-less 20 year old. But the whole thing reeked on all sides.

What's going on here is a completely different ballgame. There are plenty of prosecutions coming, and ALL are going to be well deserved.
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Old 06-18-17, 01:04 PM   #33
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

So, basically, Trump is the Moscowian Candidate and Melania is Angela Lansbury.

Or maybe Bannon is Lansbury.

We live in a complicated world.
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Old 06-18-17, 01:18 PM   #34
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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I said this weeks ago in the other thread- there are going to be innocent people here, staffers who signed on in good faith wanting to serve the new administration, who are going to be financially devastated after legal fees.

But then again, This guy ran the most cynical, poisonous campaign I've ever seen. It's hard to have too much sympathy for anyone that believed in this SOB's world view enough to book passage on this ship.

With Financial skullduggery, espionage, and collusion with a foreign government to destroy the publics faith in it's democratic institutions, I seriously don't think Mueller is looking for extraneous stuff to justify his job here.
So, you just said many people signed on in good faith, probably wanted a new political future...but yet you're ok with them being ruined.

Once again, no proof here. And to group everyone together, is legally and ethically insane, and only demonstrates your bias.

And from what you commented and others just here on this forum, you people really don't mind this being a Witch Hunt as Trump describes. Because you don't care about evidence, you just want blood.

You want people hurt, innocent people, and that's ok with you.

Anyone who worked for Trump might be forced to take the 5th...just like Hillary's employees.

So, I don't wanna hear you complaining if they do. But of course, this is a Witch Hunt, and the law doesn't apply to your high standards of justice and retaliation for an election that was legitimate and the voice of millions of Americans who voted...without interference from foreign prejudice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
This isn't Ken Starr going after Financial Crimes, coming up completely empty and then playing gotcha with GJ testimony over a BJ.
We don't know yet. It's too early to tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
What's going on here is a completely different ballgame. There are plenty of prosecutions coming, and ALL are going to be well deserved.
Prosecutions mean nothing. Anyone can be prosecuted for anything. Being prosecuted does not mean guilty in this country. You and many others appear to forget this, rather conveniently. However, being prosecuted in this political atmosphere, can mean financial ruin among other things as stated above.

Once again, you seem ok with the entire White House burning down, and the government coming to a stand still and potentially becoming more serious with ramifications that could affect all of us. It's a common theme I'm observing with people like you. The indifference and apathy because an election was lost.

I can only imagine what would happen if I played against you at a baseball game event. If my team won, you'd have me arrested and my entire staff, just because you're a sore loser and won't admit that your game tactics were inferior to mine, and wouldn't care that you'd be setting a new precedent, where the prejudiced protocols you created...will be used against you and people you care about in the future.
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Old 06-18-17, 01:36 PM   #35
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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Once again, you seem ok with the entire White House burning down, and the government coming to a stand still and potentially becoming more serious with ramifications that could affect all of us. It's a common theme I'm observing with people like you. The indifference and apathy because an election was lost.
That was weird how you threw in this paragraph describing the Republicans from 2008-2016.
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Old 06-18-17, 01:50 PM   #36
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Steve Bannon, White House Chief Strategist's words:

Quote:
we had a long talk about his approach to politics. He never called himself a “populist” or an “American nationalist,” as so many think of him today. “I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.

Shocked, I asked him what he meant.

“Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Bannon was employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals. He included in that group the Republican and Democratic Parties, as well as the traditional conservative press.
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Old 06-18-17, 02:21 PM   #37
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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I can only imagine what would happen if I played against you at a baseball game event. If my team won, you'd have me arrested and my entire staff, just because you're a sore loser and won't admit that your game tactics were inferior to mine....
From here on out, I'm not gonna bother responding to obvious troll posts.
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Old 06-18-17, 02:41 PM   #38
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Polizei, since you're so well versed in how investigations work, please start one of your own to find out why Obama never fired Kim Davis.
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Old 06-18-17, 03:24 PM   #39
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Anyone who paid the slightest bit of attention to the election knew exactly what kind of person Trump was. I have zero sympathy for anyone who signed on to work for a guy like that.

It's like complaining that you got arrested after joining Al Capone's team.
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Old 06-19-17, 05:58 AM   #40
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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Old 06-19-17, 08:39 AM   #41
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Russia issued a warning to the US because we shot down a Syrian jet. I wonder why they didnt just use the secret backdoor channels Jared Kushner set up to threaten to release the video of Trump paying a prostitute to pee on a bed if he doesnt stop interfering in Syria. My guess is they know about Trumps sealed indictment from the FISA court and think he will be out of office soon. They probably regret hacking voting machines to get Trump elected instead of Gary Johnson.
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Old 06-19-17, 08:58 AM   #42
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Pfft, something has to play out in the media.
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Old 06-19-17, 09:00 AM   #43
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

I think Jill Stein was the designated alternate Putin StoogeŽ for 2016, not Johnson.
I've seen many people speculate she was another Putin designed element installed primarily to siphon votes away from HRC.

Spoiler:


Interesting couple of tweets last night from Preet Bahrara

Quote:
All should agree that, whether on the right or the left, hateful and evidence-free conspiracy theorists must be shunned, shamed and exposed.

It's not just a problem from the right. People on the left saying utter nonsense too, Iike there are sealed indictments against Trump. B.S.
This is a shot across the bow to Mensch who wrote back in May that Trump was under sealed indictment. IIRC, this was also corroborated by another person with different sources.
Preet would seem to be in more of a position to know - and I don't really see the upside of dampening people's enthusiasm other than in the interest of setting the record straight.

FWIW, Mensch is standing by her source(s).
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Old 06-19-17, 09:22 AM   #44
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Mensch is a complete joke. She reduces the credibility of everyone fighting against Trump. And BTW she has spent a lot of time arguing that many other prominent anti-Trump names on Twitter are actually Russian spies, and has released personal info of people she's trying to discredit, although sometimes she releases the wrong info and puts up the name and photo of a totally different person and then doesn't correct or retract it when she's proven wrong. I doubt she has any information that's valuable and is just trying desperately to stay relevant because she cannot abide the spotlight moving off her.

Bahrara has integrity and should be heeded here. Mensch is a straight up bullshit artist.
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Old 06-19-17, 09:37 AM   #45
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

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f a position to know - and I don't really see the upside of dampening people's enthusiasm other than in the interest of setting the record straight.
Being factually correct is far more important than "dampening people's enthusiasm". And throwing out wild conspiracy theories muddies the waters for things that actually are happening.

That's why I'm glad this thread exists - keeps the grassy knoll stuff out of what is actually going on with Trump.
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Old 06-19-17, 10:09 AM   #46
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

FWIW, I don't hang on LM's every word. In fact, out of all the people that I 'follow' on Twitter, she is one that I check out the least often. Usually I run across her postings as they get retweeted by someone else.
I'm also getting tired of all the contentiousness you have to wade through to get to any substantive info (her calling out other people as Deza or trolls).


That said, with a couple missteps acknowledged, she's been more correct than not a good amount of the time from what I can see. And once all this is in the history books, I expect her signal to noise ratio to be revealed to be a lot higher than people are giving her credit for now.

But that's a gut feeling, and I could certainly be proven wrong.
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Old 06-19-17, 10:13 AM   #47
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

I think she's a British Ann Coulter who decided that being anti-Trump was better for her brand than being pro-Trump. Any accurate info she has is the result of posting anything and everything anti-Trunp, leading to some true things making it in. I don't think she's trustworthy for anything beyond promoting herself, and the extent to which true information can help her remain relevant.
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Old 06-19-17, 10:31 AM   #48
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

One of these days I'm gong to go through her blog posts and short hand every one and put them up in the first post here so people can gauge her veracity- for good or bad.

BTW I've seen her interviewed on some UK programs, and to me she doesn't come across as a Brit Ann Coulter. I think, just like conservatives Frum and Kristol here, her antipathy for Trump is arrived at honestly and because of the ultimate peril he/this represents to a mainstream conservative viewpoint going forward.

But enough about Mensch. Any info from her will be attributed so people can choose to disregard it or not.
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Old 06-19-17, 12:53 PM   #49
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Don't waste your time, Paul. She's been known to go back and edit blog posts to make herself look prescient. She got one story right early on and a few others right in the same way that Nostradamus did i.e. through a creative reading of what was written. My advice is to unfollow her on Twitter and keep it moving.
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Old 06-20-17, 12:07 PM   #50
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re: The Official Trump/Russia Wacky? Conspiracy Thread

Mueller's Justice League Unlimited adds another new member- Elizabeth Prelogar—from DOJ solicitor general’s office.
She holds a degree in English and Russian / studied Russian media and censorship on a Fulbright grant.

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Mueller adds another appellate lawyer to his team. Another sign he's thinking several steps down the road & getting ready.
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