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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 03-14-17, 04:06 PM   #76
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

I don't mind most waterfowl. But ducks? I could do without ducks.
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Old 03-14-17, 04:06 PM   #77
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

You guys made me look up sealioning. Thanks a lot Obama.
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Old 03-14-17, 04:12 PM   #78
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by wishbone View Post
I don't mind most waterfowl. But ducks? I could do without ducks.
That'th DETHPICABLE!
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Old 03-14-17, 04:15 PM   #79
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by wishbone View Post
I don't mind most waterfowl. But ducks? I could do without ducks.
There are only two things I hate I this world: People who are intolerant of others, and the Dutch!
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Old 03-14-17, 04:34 PM   #80
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Old 03-14-17, 05:12 PM   #81
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
There are only two things I hate I this world: People who are intolerant of others, and the Dutch!
My wife is dutch, and I won't tolerate you hating her.

Guess that's us off your Christmas card list...
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Old 03-14-17, 05:20 PM   #82
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by andicus View Post
My wife is dutch, and I won't tolerate you hating her.

Guess that's us off your Christmas card list...
Your intolerance of my intolerance is much worse than my original intolerance! How do you speak out against bigotry you bigotry bigot!
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Old 03-14-17, 05:41 PM   #83
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

Snowflake, triggered, cuck. These are topical insulting words that make stupid people feel good. If you're using them in a non-ironic or non-sardonic way, you're probably an asshole.

Also, that sea lion cartoon is, like, really good.

I'm always posting on here about how people talk on Twitter, Youtube, and comments sections. How I think lots of them are fake. And how it's a lot smaller community than we believe. Not feeling the energy right now to write it all out again.
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Old 03-14-17, 05:47 PM   #84
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
You're arguing moral relativism in defense of post-modern white nationalism ... what else do you need?
Please cite the post in which you imagined that this actually happened.

I believe that, regardless of differing viewpoints, when people are proud of their uncivil behavior and modeling this type of behavior for the children and young people influenced by them, there is something missing in public discourse...which is exactly what the cited authors & speakers said. And we are the worse for it.

Last edited by creekdipper; 03-14-17 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 03-14-17, 06:47 PM   #85
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I don't think racist views are worth tolerating. You can have them, but I can protest them or pressure venues to not provide a platform. Of course I don't want them thrown in jail or physically assaulted and I've never said otherwise. But a racist or bigot complaining that their views aren't being given a fair shake is ridiculous. And that's where "you're being intolerant of my intolerance" comes from.

Refusing to serve a homosexual is the same as refusing to serve a black person or a woman or a Jewish person. And objecting to those views is not oppressive. Encouraging them is.
And you have expressed your viewpoint clearly, although you might want to acknowledge that "racism" and 'bigotry" are subjective terms that rely upon the eye of the beholder. It's one thing to say that minorities should be lynched; it's another to argue that affirmative action programs are themselves racist. And yet the latter is often treated just as harshly as the former. It's easy to pick out extremes (although the First Amendment protects that speech, too), but that has become extended to all sorts of dissenting opinions.

You expressed your viewpoint without resorting to a single slur, vulgarity, demeaning remark, or personal attack. Don't you expect others to do the same? One could make a principled argument explaining why your view is a subjective opinion and that the policies you espouse are themselves oppressive. The point is not whether you nor they would agree. The point of the authors and professors is that both sides should be allowed to have their cases be heard. Neither side is required to "respect" the other's viewpoints; however, it's impossible to see what those who engage in the "childish name-calling" (to quote another poster) hope to get out of that behavior.

Go back and read the comments that the liberal person who appeared on O'Reilly (a visit which described as a "very civil" exchange) received afterward. Any of those comments sound familiar?

When students shout down an author who has been invited by a liberal professor who has prepared for a civil debate in order to rebut the author's ideas...and the students not only try to prevent the debate from happening but actually physically attack (and injure) the liberal professor...something has gone drastically wrong, in the opinions of many (including the liberal faculty of that liberal college). Yet there are many who seem to support those tactics as using "any means necessary" to prevent challenging ideas from being presented.

That is what the professors/authors/editors are talking about. It's not about "the KKK." It's about attempts to shut down any speech (liberal or conservative; atheist or religious; wealthy or poor; majority or minority; etc.) or intimidate speakers into keeping silent.

That's a classic fascist tactic, and it appears that more and more are eager to don the brown shirts in the name of "progress" by demonizing opponents.

Sound familiar?

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Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
creek, this reads as if you're combining our actual freedom of speech with a made up 'freedom to be taken seriously by others'. Flat earthers are certainly welcome to their beliefs and can state them to anyone who is willing to listen. That doesn't mean any of us are obligated to listen to what they have to say or engage them in debate. Freedom of speech guarantees the government won't prevent you from saying something, but it doesn't mean the government will guarantee you a receptive audience.
No, I said several times that respecting the right to hold and express and opinion has nothing to do with respecting the speaker or the opinion. The authors & professors are decrying the bully-boy strong arm tactics of censoring speech through intimidation. There will always be those who prefer name-calling to debate due to what Thomas Sowell calls "The Vision of the Anointed," but some see the problem as growing worse.

Yes, there has always been an element that resorts to those means for their own reasons, and there have been times of extreme polarization in the country in the past (obviously). But a lot had hoped that things were getting better...and yet many commentators see the problem with polarization and rising tensions as increasing. And uncivil rhetoric doesn't help.

Last edited by creekdipper; 03-14-17 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 03-14-17, 07:27 PM   #86
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
when people are proud of their uncivil behavior and modeling this type of behavior for the children and young people influenced by them, there is something missing in public discourse
I agree, and I look forward to reading your posts admonishing the President of the United States Donald Trump for being among the worst and most visible examples of this behavior.

It's what some of us have been arguing for a while now and I'm a little baffled why some on the right are suddenly concerned about public discourse beginning January 2017. When someone like Rush Limbaugh has been a thought leader for the GOP going on 20+ years, and the right seem to go to great lengths to shift focus away from what's currently happening in the party and White House.
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Old 03-14-17, 07:32 PM   #87
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by Nausicaa View Post
I agree, and I look forward to reading your posts admonishing the President of the United States Donald Trump for being among the worst and most visible examples of this behavior.
Supermallet nailed it

Quote:
And despite people like creek saying many noxious things over the years, most responses to him have been civil. Despite this, he has continued to be condescending and offensive, albeit polite in his tone. At a certain point it's not worth the effort, when you realize that it's all water off a duck's back.
This boils down to basically do as he says, not as he does. And the same goes for many others on the right that are now all pissy that their disrespectful bigotry is being called out in disrespectful ways.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 03-14-17 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 03-14-17, 07:33 PM   #88
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

Teaching a child to be a bigot and to fear the consequences from an invisible man is a horrible thing to do.
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Old 03-14-17, 07:35 PM   #89
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

Moving goal posts and cherry picking from the ancient psychology book...
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Old 03-14-17, 07:37 PM   #90
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

Don't be disrespectful in tone with me, after all, I'm just a bigot.
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Old 03-14-17, 07:52 PM   #91
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by Nausicaa View Post
I agree, and I look forward to reading your posts admonishing the President of the United States Donald Trump for being among the worst and most visible examples of this behavior.

It's what some of us have been arguing for a while now
Yes, some of us have been doing that very thing since Donald Trump announced his candidacy (and, re: public discourse, long before that). So set a spell, take your shoes off, and settle into some mighty fine reading from the past year going back through the archives.

It's a Catch-22 situation. Some of us conservatives consistently announced our support of other candidates (never Trump at any point) and our eventual votes for third-party candidates. And repeatedly said that neither Trump nor Clinton deserved to be POTUS.

But since you apparently missed all of those posts, glad you are looking forward to revisiting the posts and making up for lost time. Be sure to make a few mint juleps, as there are quite a few posts to enjoy.

Word salad is good for you!

(The Catch-22 comes in when someone says that confirming that one didn't vote for Trump is "polishing your bonafides." So a vote against Trump is actually a vote for Trump. That makes perfect sense. And saying that Trump is unfit to be President is actually a ringing endorsement of him. Got it. )

Maybe not making mistaken assumptions about folks ought to be added to the list of no-nos re: public discourse. Not only does it foster a more genial atmosphere, it also keeps the egg off our own faces.

Just saying that genially. I didn't take offense at your error since I know it wasn't from a place of bad intentions but merely a mistaken presumption. No harm done.

And I know that you weren't trying to make things personal. Because that would be an example of the OP.

It also appears that you didn't even read all of the posts in this thread, either, since I specifically picked out an example in which a liberal guest was attacked after expressing his views (Post #44). It's a universal problem, not a partisan one.

Last edited by creekdipper; 03-14-17 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 03-14-17, 07:59 PM   #92
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

Honestly, I am NOT paying for examples of the OP!!!
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Old 03-14-17, 09:58 PM   #93
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Please cite the post in which you imagined that this actually happened.
Post 57.

Quote:
I believe that, regardless of differing viewpoints, when people are proud of their uncivil behavior and modeling this type of behavior for the children and young people influenced by them, there is something missing in public discourse...which is exactly what the cited authors & speakers said. And we are the worse for it.
There has never been a time when our discourse was actually civil. In days of yore, when America was Great, what you call "civility" was a system of oppression when various groups were forced to stay in line through threats and violence.

Point out that a slave owner is raping black women and raising his own children as property -- if you're lucky, you'll be challenged to a duel; if you're unlucky, the guy will beat your skull in with a hickory cane, and his friends will manipulate the legal system to avoid punishment.

A black kid whistles at a white woman -- her husband will get his friends together and beat the kid to death.

Dare to be gay where people can see you -- get dragged to death by a truck.

That's what "civility" was.
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Old 03-14-17, 10:20 PM   #94
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

As with Trump's #MAGA nonsense, all this "civility" call really means is "let's get back to 1950 when straight white Christian men called the shots".
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Old 03-15-17, 02:13 AM   #95
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

After reading four pages of comments and reflections, I've come to agree with the conclusions of two posters from Page One re: this discussion:

"Useless"

and

"Nevermind."


Last edited by creekdipper; 03-15-17 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 03-15-17, 08:08 AM   #96
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints



Who's the cat that won't cop out

When there's danger all about

Shaft!

Right on

You see this cat Shaft is a bad mother...

Shut your mouth!
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Old 03-15-17, 09:13 AM   #97
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by Draven View Post
As with Trump's #MAGA nonsense, all this "civility" call really means is "let's get back to 1950 when straight white Christian men called the shots".
Exactly!

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Old 03-15-17, 09:30 AM   #98
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

You guys are going off here, but I do think the original point in the OP was that people live in bubbles and discourse is as bad as its ever been is valid. That applies to everyone even though Millennials were mentioned in the OP.
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Old 03-15-17, 09:37 AM   #99
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
You guys are going off here, but I do think the original point in the OP was that people live in bubbles and discourse is as bad as its ever been is valid.
All I have seen is those that treat others like shit are being responded to in kind. Not a change in discourse, just a change in the number of people (many of them now with cushy jobs in DC) that now think they are empowered to be uncivil to everybody else. #maga

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Old 03-15-17, 10:35 AM   #100
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Re: Demise of Public Civil Discourse Toward Opposing Viewpoints

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Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
You guys are going off here, but I do think the original point in the OP was that people live in bubbles and discourse is as bad as its ever been is valid. That applies to everyone even though Millennials were mentioned in the OP.
100 years ago, every major city had a Republican newspaper and a Democratic newspaper. It's not a good thing, but it's not a new thing.
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