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The Official Trump Presidency Thread: Michael Flynn down, who's next?

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The Official Trump Presidency Thread: Michael Flynn down, who's next?

Old 05-30-17, 03:26 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
Here's a handy chart for giving an overview of the situation and some important players beyond just the immediate Trump administration. Some of you already know this stuff- for others it will serve as a little primer.
The story with the Mercers and the technology that CA provides, and how it is used to shape perceptions, is IMO every bit as important to understand and acknowledge as Trump and co. treasonous malfeasance

Spoiler:
Oh Jesus. It might as well be a corkboard with newspaper articles tied together with yarn.
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Old 05-30-17, 03:28 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

It's shit like that that gives rise to people saying it's all just a leftist conspiracy theory and a witchhunt.
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Old 05-30-17, 05:45 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians


Trump loot crates! Just $69 a month.

What a greedy orange motherfucker.
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Old 05-30-17, 06:00 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Oh Jesus. It might as well be a corkboard with newspaper articles tied together with yarn.
Originally Posted by cungar View Post
It's shit like that that gives rise to people saying it's all just a leftist conspiracy theory and a witchhunt.

You guys do know that Nixon wasn't the only casualty of Watergate, don't you?
There were 40 government officials who were either indicted or went to prison.
I wonder how much yarn they had to use for that one?

And I don't think any of them had long, unfamiliar Russian names.

But who knows, maybe the Justice Dept. will try to keep it simpler for the (simpler) viewers at home and not bother following up on the confusing stuff.
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Old 05-30-17, 06:41 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
^ was just going to post about that

I think that 'fake social media' was Russia's biggest influence on the election. All of that fake enthusiasm for Trump snowballed and became real. I think the rest of the Russian collusion investigation is a political move after our relations became strained over Syria. We would have never heard a peep about any of this, had Putin showed restrain in Syria.

I think that Trump saw how Putin used his position to enrich himself. And I think that Trump admires that, and wants to attempt the same thing. I think that's why meetings took place. These people admire Putin. Now they're stuck in the legalities of such meetings - and more incriminating - they lied about it.

I honestly believe that when Trump tweets and it gets 50k or 100k likes, I think that less than 5% of those are from real people. Many bots automatically like anything he posts. And he's got 14M of them (let's say 5M or 10M ... as many fake accounts are simply there for non-political reasons).

I read a lot of tweets and replies. The vast majority of pro-Trump tweets contain stuff like 4Trump and MAGA in their usernames. I don't think these are real people. I think this is a network of people who generated millions of fake accounts as part of a propaganda project. Whether it's foreign governments. Or just Trump supporters with 1000x accounts.
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Old 05-30-17, 06:47 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
I think that 'fake social media' was Russia's biggest influence on the election. All of that fake enthusiasm for Trump snowballed and became real. I think the rest of the Russian collusion investigation is a political move after our relations became strained over Syria. We would have never heard a peep about any of this, had Putin showed restrain in Syria.

I think that Trump saw how Putin used his position to enrich himself. And I think that Trump admires that, and wants to attempt the same thing. I think that's why meetings took place. These people admire Putin. Now they're stuck in the legalities of such meetings - and more incriminating - they lied about it.

I honestly believe that when Trump tweets and it gets 50k or 100k likes, I think that less than 5% of those are from real people. Many bots automatically like anything he posts. And he's got 14M of them (let's say 5M or 10M ... as many fake accounts are simply there for non-political reasons).

I read a lot of tweets and replies. The vast majority of pro-Trump tweets contain stuff like 4Trump and MAGA in their usernames. I don't think these are real people. I think this is a network of people who generated millions of fake accounts as part of a propaganda project. Whether it's foreign governments. Or just Trump supporters with 1000x accounts.
I think that you are overestimating the impact of bots. Fox News propaganda had far, far more influence on voters.

Unless proven otherwise, 63 million people actually voted for him.
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Old 05-30-17, 07:21 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

The weaponization of fake news, and the targeting of it with surgical precision to individual people is what the Mercers/ Cambridge Analytica angle of this is all about.

It's a whole lot more than just creating fake bots to give the appearance of followers or supporters.

CA used data mined profiles, in conjunction with hacked/stolen voter rolls, to sophisticatedly tailor fake news to a specific voters specific interests and sensibilities.

This aspect may even be the bigger deal in ALL of this because while we will eventually get rid of Trump, this technology is still going to exist and will still be a major propaganda weapon in the arsenals of both the good and bad guys.

This shit reads like sci-fi and the implications of it are scary as fuck. But it's all true.
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Old 05-30-17, 07:29 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
The weaponization of fake news, and the targeting of it with surgical precision to individual people is what the Mercers/ Cambridge Analytica angle of this is all about.

It's a whole lot more than just creating fake bots to give the appearance of followers or supporters.

CA used data mined profiles, in conjunction with hacked/stolen voter rolls, to sophisticatedly tailor fake news to a specific voters specific interests and sensibilities.

This aspect may even be the bigger deal in ALL of this because while we will eventually get rid of Trump, this technology is still going to exist and will still be a major propaganda weapon in the arsenals of both the good and bad guys.

This shit reads like sci-fi and the implications of it are scary as fuck. But it's all true.
Wow. Crazy. We've come a long way from dropping leaflets from the air.
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Old 05-30-17, 07:55 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
The weaponization of fake news, and the targeting of it with surgical precision to individual people is what the Mercers/ Cambridge Analytica angle of this is all about.

It's a whole lot more than just creating fake bots to give the appearance of followers or supporters.

CA used data mined profiles, in conjunction with hacked/stolen voter rolls, to sophisticatedly tailor fake news to a specific voters specific interests and sensibilities.

This aspect may even be the bigger deal in ALL of this because while we will eventually get rid of Trump, this technology is still going to exist and will still be a major propaganda weapon in the arsenals of both the good and bad guys.

This shit reads like sci-fi and the implications of it are scary as fuck. But it's all true.
I understand. I simply believe that the impact of those actions are overstated especially compared to Fox News, Drudge, Breitbart, and the echo chamber of groupthink.
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Old 05-30-17, 08:01 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I understand. I simply believe that the impact of those actions are overstated especially compared to Fox News, Drudge, Breitbart, and the echo chamber of groupthink.
But it's not an either /or. The targeted, fake news disseminated by CA via bots and trolls, that shows up in someone's feed, gets regurgitated up to Fox, Drudge, Breitbart- and echoed back again thus being reenforced and legitimized.
Some scumbag like Hannity has the cover of " There's a story circulating now that we're going to try to get to the bottom of..." because it's already been seeded to thousands of people for whom some aspect of the story will have major resonance.

It's not a separate attack because eventually it becomes all part of the same right wing ecosystem.
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Old 05-30-17, 08:02 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I understand. I simply believe that the impact of those actions are overstated especially compared to Fox News, Drudge, Breitbart, and the echo chamber of groupthink.
My biggest issue with the whole "vast conspiracy" angle is that I think it takes too much of the responsibility for Trump off of the voters.

I've said all along that simply watching the debates should have made the choice of Hillary a no-brainer. Policies aside, it was readily apparent that Trump had neither the knowledge or the maturity for the office of the President.

Blaming his election on Russian Twitter bots is too easy.
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Old 05-30-17, 08:06 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
But it's not an either /or. The targeted, fake news disseminated by CA via bots and trolls, that shows up in someone's feed, gets regurgitated up to Fox, Drudge, Breitbart- and echoed back again thus being reenforced and legitimized.
Some scumbag like Hannity has the cover of " There's a story circulating now that we're going to try to get to the bottom of..." because it's already been seeded to thousands of people for whom some aspect of the story will have major resonance.

It's not a separate attack because eventually it becomes all part of the same right wing ecosystem.
I agree, it's a self perpetuating system that expands the reach far beyond what those sites/stations alone could do.
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Old 05-30-17, 08:07 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
Here's a handy chart for giving an overview of the situation and some important players beyond just the immediate Trump administration. Some of you already know this stuff- for others it will serve as a little primer.
The story with the Mercers and the technology that CA provides, and how it is used to shape perceptions, is IMO every bit as important to understand and acknowledge as Trump and co. treasonous malfeasance

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 05-30-17, 08:21 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
My biggest issue with the whole "vast conspiracy" angle is that I think it takes too much of the responsibility for Trump off of the voters.

I've said all along that simply watching the debates should have made the choice of Hillary a no-brainer. Policies aside, it was readily apparent that Trump had neither the knowledge or the maturity for the office of the President.

Blaming his election on Russian Twitter bots is too easy.
I would say to stop thinking of it as a conspiracy and start thinking of it as war.

Because this is what war is going to increasingly look like in this century- the seduction of hearts and minds, through trickery and deceit, to manufacture people's consent.

Tanks, Battleships, airpower and the taking of land were all the attributes of war at the end of an industrialized age. This is an information age.
That's not just an empty slogan- it has implications.

Last edited by Paul_SD; 05-30-17 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 05-30-17, 08:42 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
I would say to stop thinking of it as a conspiracy and start thinking of it as war.

Because this is what war is going to increasingly look like in this century- the seduction of hearts and minds, through trickery and deceit, to manufacture people's consent.

Tanks, Battleships, airpower and the taking of land was all the attributes of war at the end of an industrialized age. This is an information age.
That's not just an empty slogan- it has implications.
This I agree with. Adam Curtis did a fantastic four part documentary on this very subject, the Century of the Self, which is up on YouTube:
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Old 05-30-17, 08:46 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Paul_SD View Post
I would say to stop thinking of it as a conspiracy and start thinking of it as war.

Because this is what war is going to increasingly look like in this century- the seduction of hearts and minds, through trickery and deceit, to manufacture people's consent.

Tanks, Battleships, airpower and the taking of land were all the attributes of war at the end of an industrialized age. This is an information age.
That's not just an empty slogan- it has implications.
I would say stop thinking of it as a war and start thinking of it as the discarded manuscript for a Bourne flick.

How is this tale different from those generated by infowars or breitbart?
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Old 05-30-17, 08:49 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I would say stop thinking of it as a war and start thinking of it as the discarded manuscript for a Bourne flick.

How is this tale different from those generated by infowars or breitbart?
Set aside the whole Louise Mensch/Claude Taylor conspiracy theory. It's irrelevant to the discussion of how we're fed a constant stream of messages that inform us what we should be valuing and what we need to make us happy. Coincidentally, those messages happen to align with interests of the powerful.

We look at Nazi and American propaganda from WWII and think how could anyone have been swayed by those obvious attempts at manipulation? But people WERE influenced by them and the methods have only gotten more sophisticated and subtle since then, to the point where most people don't even notice propaganda when they're seeing it. I posted the Century of the Self above. I'd also recommend Amusing Ourselves to Death, a book by Neil Postman, which isn't explicitly about propaganda as a weapon, but does a great job of elucidating many of the methods used to manipulate people through advertising.
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Old 05-30-17, 09:27 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

AP reporting:

BREAKING: President Trump has been urging world leaders to call him on his cellphone, raising security and secrecy concerns.
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Old 05-30-17, 09:36 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

He's been urging world leaders to call him on his cell in general, or he's asking them to call him right now?
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Old 05-30-17, 09:45 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

He's been passing out his cellphone number to world leaders saying they can just call him directly that way. Fucking idiot.
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Old 05-30-17, 09:50 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
He's been urging world leaders to call him on his cell in general, or he's asking them to call him right now?
#lonely #sad

Originally Posted by E Unit View Post
He's been passing out his cellphone number to world leaders saying they can just call him directly that way. Fucking idiot.
...but Hillary's emails...
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Old 05-30-17, 09:53 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Maybe he is lonely?

Trump, home all alone

It's not that President Trump was excited about his first foreign trip. He complained to friends beforehand it was going to be too long; he just wasn't looking forward to it. Besides, he was "in a pretty glum mood" when he left, according to one source who speaks with the President.

His homecoming, it appears, did nothing to cheer him up.

Instead of celebrating a victory lap after touring the Middle East and meeting with the Pope and European leaders, Trump returned to the continuing controversy over Russia. He was preoccupied with legal issues and staff problems as the controversy placed his son-in-law, and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, as part of a counterintelligence investigation. Sessions with lawyers are nothing new for this litigious ex-businessman; but with infinitely higher stakes, this was different.

One source says Trump has complained privately about his White House counsel Don McGahn, well known as a specialist in campaign finance law. But his inside counsel has nothing to do with his personal defense, anyway -- and so he was expected to meet with his go-to attorney, Marc Kasowitz. His longtime lawyer, two sources say, is going to become what one called the "supervisor" of Trump's outside legal team. He'll be the Trump whisperer, adds another, "not the guy interacting with [special counsel Robert] Mueller."

"Allowing a special counsel to happen was idiocy," says one ally, who may be channeling the President's thinking. "Special counsels never end well." Never mind that Trump's own firing of FBI Director James Comey -- and his repeated attempts to get administration appointees to end the matter -- began the chain of events that led to the Mueller appointment. If anyone wanted to stop the President, it didn't happen. Maybe they agreed with Trump that the Democrats would support the move?

"These guys don't play chess," sighs a friend. "They play checkers."

After the President moved to fire the FBI director, one outside adviser says he told Trump flat-out that the timing was crazy. "If you had fired him on Day One, it would be a whole different atmosphere," he told the President. "Doing it five months in made no sense."

Presidency is not a natural fit

So Trump returns to the White House this week just as he left -- lonely, angry and not happy with much of anyone. The presidency, Donald Trump is discovering, is not an easy or natural fit.

"He now lives within himself, which is a dangerous place for Donald Trump to be," says someone who speaks with the President. "I see him emotionally withdrawing. He's gained weight. He doesn't have anybody whom he trusts."

The question, he adds, is whether Trump will understand the enormity of what he faces or will instead "be back to being arrogant and stubborn." He will have to realize that "all this trip really did was hit the pause button."
More here: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/opinio...ger/index.html
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Old 05-30-17, 09:58 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
#lonely #sad



...but Hillary's emails...
He's passing those out as well?
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Old 05-30-17, 10:06 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

Hope you guys are watching the new season of House of Cards.
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Old 05-30-17, 11:10 PM
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re: The Offical Trump Presidency Thread: Don Jr & Russians

can someone explain how Germany became our enemy now?
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