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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 11-30-16, 06:20 PM   #51
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

Use simple, clear messaging. Focus on a few major issues. To use a metaphor, shoot bullets instead of buckshot. People didn't know Clinton's top issues and plans, so they focused on her as a person.

Aim your messages at the lowest common denominator. Distill and simplify your message so that even a middle schooler can understand. Assume your audience knows little to nothing or is misinformed. Make information available to the tiny fraction that wants to learn more.

Over promise. Modest, practical proposals are not inspiring. Sell the best-case scenario.

All of these ideas are intended to account for the childish ignorance and stupidity of the average American.
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Old 11-30-16, 06:28 PM   #52
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Use simple, clear messaging.
If we're going to use Trump's tactic - stay vague. Very very vague. Just promise whatever you can, and then pass it off as 'campaign promises' once elected.

We're not going to 'arm this', 'ally this', and 'offer diplomacy'. Zzzzzzzzz Mrs. Clinton. We're just going to fix the Middle East. Offer promises, not solutions.

Democrats could also gain attention by posting hostile things on Twitter.
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Old 11-30-16, 06:33 PM   #53
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

So caught up in the now.
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Old 11-30-16, 06:48 PM   #54
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

I've always thought that policians should endeavor to enhance the general well-being of the American people. This approach makes sense from a messaging standpoint, too. Your proposals will have widespread appeal.

Under normal circumstances, special interests should take a backseat to the interests of Americans as a whole. That doesn't mean that the concerns of minorities and other groups should be ignored, but they shouldn't overshadow the concerns of Americans as a whole unless there is a real crisis.
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Old 11-30-16, 07:53 PM   #55
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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They need to call everyone racist and misogynistic more.
Exactly. Double down on the identity politics, the sanctimony, the haranguing, and the sneering contempt for huge swaths of the US population. And go further to the left---don't let the Islamophobes block Keith Ellison's advancement or the import of millions of Muslim immigrants. And further combat the intolerant scourge of people being barred from women's bathrooms simply on the account of having a penis.
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Old 11-30-16, 08:26 PM   #56
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Old 11-30-16, 09:36 PM   #57
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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One, they need to focus on state politics, they have ignored it for too long and it has bitten them hard. There is zero reason that states like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Vermont (FFS!), Virginia, Nevada, North Carolina, and others are controlled solely by Republicans.
Here is the Democratic control on the state level:

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Old 11-30-16, 09:53 PM   #58
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Double down on the identity politics, the sanctimony, the haranguing, and the sneering contempt for huge swaths of the US population.
It worked for the Republicans.
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Old 11-30-16, 09:56 PM   #59
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

Meh. The power is still pretty well split. When sensible politicians are elected, there's nothing wrong with a split.

Senate Democrats: 359
Senate Republicans: 510
House Democrats: 1071
House Republicans: 1511

The numbers constantly flip back and forth. Republicans are in power, Democrats feel disenfranchised and then get out and vote. Democrats in power, Republicans feel disenfranchised and then get out and vote. Everyone is always disappointed in whoever is in power (because they expect 'their team' to magically fix their personal problems).

My LD actually turned Democrat this year for the first time in a long time (or maybe forever). A lot of people are relieved that Arpaio is gone too. Still bummed that we rejected the rec. MJ ballot. But hey, we're in our little bubble over here.
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Old 11-30-16, 10:01 PM   #60
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Sorry, I meant legislatures.



I will admit being stunned that there was not a revolt against Pelosi. She's a lightning rod for republicans and even independents; she needs to go.
Nobody gives a fuck about Nancy Pelosi (or Paul Ryan, for that matter) besides die hards on either side of the aisle. And those people aren't crossing over regardless of who is in the Democratic leadership. The key to being a successful minority leader is being able to effectively raise money, whip the organization, and coordinate messaging -- all of which Pelosi has demonstrated she can do.
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Old 11-30-16, 10:38 PM   #61
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Here is the Democratic control on the state level:
Thanks for the information. What exactly does this prove? The GOP is receiving more votes in many areas. Other than that, it proves absolutely nothing.

If Movie Studio A makes more money than Movie Studio B, is Movie Studio A making higher-quality movies? Not necessarily. Many crappy movies earn a lot of money, and many excellent movies don't do well at the box office. Movie Studio A may be good at marketing, but their product may be garbage, and as the saying goes, there is no accounting for taste -- or intelligence I'll add.

The GOP currently has a lot of power and influence, but it's an embarrassment. Many Republican legislators reject basic science. They completely ignore the findings of studies when making decisions on issue after issue. They have few, if any, new large-scale ideas, which is unsurprising given that they believe that "[federal] government is the problem." As the income of the lower and middle classes has stagnated, they have continued to recycle the same stale policies such as cutting taxes, deregulating, etc. During the next few years, the lion's share of new growth will undoubtedly go to the top 10%. Republicans resist any efforts to guarantee a decent standard of living for working people. Oh, and their de facto leader is an ignorant, lying narcissist who regularly makes a fool out of himself in front of a national audience.

As well as the club is doing in terms of membership and participation, there isn't much to be proud of, and Republicans really are not very popular. They have consistently had a lower favorability among Americans when compared to Democrats, and with the exception of a few enemy nations, the rest of the world typically prefers Democrats, too.
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Old 12-01-16, 02:36 AM   #62
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

Republican advice- Those big city dwelling coastal elites need to get out of their ivory towers and stop with their identity politics and labeling if they want to win national elections.
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Old 12-01-16, 07:15 AM   #63
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Here's what I think. There's nothing "wrong" with the democratic party, but they do have some work to do.

One, they need to focus on state politics, they have ignored it for too long and it has bitten them hard. There is zero reason that states like Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Vermont (FFS!), Virginia, Nevada, North Carolina, and others are controlled solely by Republicans. That's not a function of better message, that's a function of better political maneuvering.

Second, they do need to clean up their act somewhat. If you are going to try to paint the other side as unscrupulous, you damn well better be squeaky clean. Obama administration did a great job overall on this, but HRC and the DNC not so much. I happen to think that what was uncovered is pretty much SOP at that level, but every party figure should write every email with the thought that the public might read it some day.

Third, charisma matters. Qualifications much less so. Focus on the candidates that can deliver their message in a way that it will be heard, not just the candidate that delivers the message with the best policy support.
This was basically what I was going to post. The Democrats like to crow about how they've won the popular vote in six of the last seven presidential elections, but they're getting killed at the state and local level, and that affects their long-term future, because they don't have as deep a "bench" as the GOP as a result.
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Old 12-01-16, 07:54 AM   #64
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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This was basically what I was going to post. The Democrats like to crow about how they've won the popular vote in six of the last seven presidential elections, but they're getting killed at the state and local level, and that affects their long-term future, because they don't have as deep a "bench" as the GOP as a result.
Okay that may be true but what did that deep bench get the Republican party on the national level? 10 of the worst candidates in history and they were beaten by someone who wasn't even a Republican and called his shot years ago. I'd argue that the state level Republicans is a far different animal than the national ones and the "benches" don't really carry over.
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Old 12-01-16, 08:40 AM   #65
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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As far as the Climate Change thing, I wouldn't make it an emotional argument. Make it a business argument. Make it common sense. Don't bring studies that can be easily dispelled by the opposing side. Just make common sense arguments that are simple. Make the argument so that it isn't so extreme. Don't tell people the world is going to come to an end if they don't act. That's for religious people.

But this begins with common sense policies on the environment, and not blatantly punishing people by removing choices altogether. Instead of penalizing people, reward those who go the extra mile. And then base a campaign off it. So, you'll need a city to be the example. Pick any one you want, have the city pass the legislation that rewards participants instead of inconveniencing the entire city and tourists, and banning things that did not have to be banned.

Have a city with this legislation where people are happy about it, participants have seen a realized reward, and then slap Tim Ryan's face on it along with supporters.

Pelosi likes to tax people. So this type of legislation will piss her off to no end. Ryan will begin winning over people by his Republican-ish lower taxes ideology while still being an environmentalist.
As long as environmentalists and their Democratic backers frame it as an attack on average Americans' lifestyle--urging Americans to stop doing what they're doing--their message is not going to sit well with the public. Frame it as, here's what we can do to maintain our lifestyle without hurting the environment and give concrete, proven examples. No one believes all of our energy needs will ever be met by solar panels and windmills and electric batteries in cars, so stop trying to push all that on the public.

Now, of course, there may not BE any "concrete, proven examples." In which case, we're all doomed anyway.
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Old 12-01-16, 09:27 AM   #66
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

This thread is a laugh a minute.

Started by a Republican so he can grab himself with joy over what he probably thinks is an overwhelming Republican leaning country.

These things are always cyclical. I remember when the Democrats were dead after the Reagan revolution, funny how that didn't last.

The realities of politics is that after four years of Trump we could be here talking about what is wrong with the Republicans.
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Old 12-01-16, 09:52 AM   #67
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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This thread is a laugh a minute.

Started by a Republican so he can grab himself with joy over what he probably thinks is an overwhelming Republican leaning country.

These things are always cyclical. I remember when the Democrats were dead after the Reagan revolution, funny how that didn't last.

The realities of politics is that after four years of Trump we could be here talking about what is wrong with the Republicans.
Laugh if that helps. But the day before election day the talk was about how the Republican party was going to be snuffed out of existence with this election... how when Trump loses he was going to take the entire party down with him. This wasn't just coming from far left media, but mainstream as well.

The sudden and significant swings that we are seeing are new. Things are moving much more quickly than in the past. The old models of measuring and tracking public opinion are broken... and have been for at least the last 4 years.

While I agree that the OP's motivation for starting this thread was probably a misplaced attempt at taking a "victory lap", there are things to be learned.
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Old 12-01-16, 09:52 AM   #68
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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The realities of politics is that after four years of Trump we could be here talking about what is wrong with the Republicans.
Exactly.

I bet you a good sum of money that the GOP will get drunk on their own power these next 4 years, and then let's see how things play out in 2020. Or even 2018...
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Old 12-01-16, 10:42 AM   #69
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Laugh if that helps. But the day before election day the talk was about how the Republican party was going to be snuffed out of existence with this election... how when Trump loses he was going to take the entire party down with him. This wasn't just coming from far left media, but mainstream as well.

The sudden and significant swings that we are seeing are new. Things are moving much more quickly than in the past. The old models of measuring and tracking public opinion are broken... and have been for at least the last 4 years.

While I agree that the OP's motivation for starting this thread was probably a misplaced attempt at taking a "victory lap", there are things to be learned.
The laugh was directed at the motives for this thread. You nailed it, it's nothing more then a victory lap.

As for the future, the Republicans couldn't even pull a plurality and in the next cycle they are just as likely to lose the new voters they picked up this cycle as they are to keep them.
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Old 12-01-16, 10:42 AM   #70
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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Laugh if that helps. But the day before election day the talk was about how the Republican party was going to be snuffed out of existence with this election... how when Trump loses he was going to take the entire party down with him. This wasn't just coming from far left media, but mainstream as well.

The sudden and significant swings that we are seeing are new. Things are moving much more quickly than in the past. The old models of measuring and tracking public opinion are broken... and have been for at least the last 4 years.

While I agree that the OP's motivation for starting this thread was probably a misplaced attempt at taking a "victory lap", there are things to be learned.

That sounds like a bit of selective memory there. Yes, there were concerns about Trump's nomination and what it meant long-term for the Republican party. Trump represented a fringier, farther right version of the party. I know some like to use the term Tea Party. And that wing hurt more "traditional" and central candidates like Kasich, Bush, or even Rubio.

That being said, there's always these splits and schisms that have happened over the years as parties morph into something new. It seems like something happens ever 40-50 years. But despite these shifts, the names Republican or Democrat don't really ever go away. I mean, it could happen, but likely doesn't. So the idea that the Republicans would "go away" seems remote.

Interestingly, I also think most pundits thought Trump would lose and the Republicans would shift back towards center and their "core" roots. The fact that Trump actually won arguably pushes the party further right. It can't just explain away Trump as a one-off deviation. Arguably that could hurt the party more long-term than Trump losing. Or maybe not. Who the fork knows?
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Old 12-01-16, 10:56 AM   #71
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

The Trump presidency means a big tax break for our family which will be used for college tuition. So it will be interesting to sit back and watch the Repubs overreach and do nutty shit no one wants. I feel sorry for the young people though. The Trump stuff might not be able to be changed for a while.
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Old 12-01-16, 11:10 AM   #72
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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The Trump presidency means a big tax break for our family which will be used for college tuition. So it will be interesting to sit back and watch the Repubs overreach and do nutty shit no one wants. I feel sorry for the young people though. The Trump stuff might not be able to be changed for a while.
People don't know what they want. Trump won - that's enough. Anything that negatively affects them because of Trump will be blamed on Obama or Hillary.
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Old 12-01-16, 11:14 AM   #73
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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The sudden and significant swings that we are seeing are new. Things are moving much more quickly than in the past. The old models of measuring and tracking public opinion are broken... and have been for at least the last 4 years.
No, they aren't.

Nate Silver predicted Clinton would get 48.5% of the popular vote; the latest tally has her at 48%; he predicted Trump would get 45%, and currently he's at 46.2.

By contrast, in 2012 Silver predicted Obama at 50.8% vs 48.3 for Romney. The actual result was 51.1 for Obama vs 47.2 for Romeny.

The problem this year was entirely in how pollsters screened likely voters in key swing states, which masked Trump's electoral strength. Their national numbers were spot on.
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Old 12-01-16, 11:20 AM   #74
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

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No, they aren't.

Nate Silver predicted Clinton would get 48.5% of the popular vote; the latest tally has her at 48%; he predicted Trump would get 45%, and currently he's at 46.2.

By contrast, in 2012 Silver predicted Obama at 50.8% vs 48.3 for Romney. The actual result was 51.1 for Obama vs 47.2 for Romeny.

The problem this year was entirely in how pollsters screened likely voters in key swing states, which masked Trump's electoral strength. Their national numbers were spot on.
Meh. I think a lot of Democrats were convinced by the media that a HRC victory was a sure thing and people stayed home. The margins are small enough in those key states that it certainly was no mandate or message as the media would now like you to believe.
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Old 12-01-16, 02:09 PM   #75
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Re: What changes are needed in the Democratic Party?

If Trump ends up being remotely good they'll need celebrity power. If he sucks balls then they'll just need someone who wants to do it.
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