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New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

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New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Old 03-08-19, 11:22 AM
  #1351  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I agree that CNN and MSNBC are in the tank for the Democrats. They've just been smarter about it. It's obvious to me. Even those who I thought were adults on MSNBC, like Lawrence O'Donnell couldn't contain himself. One obvious tell was when he ridiculed Ivanka when she said that none of the emails sent by her Google account were govt business related and how it was preposterous to take her at her word.. and yet it is the same Lawrence O'Donnell who totally believed Hillary when she said that her lawyers went through her emails and those 32,000 emails were all private, non-govt business.
I want to unpack this a little bit.

So let's flash back to 2009-2012. During that time frame (as now), government officials (including Secretary Clinton) had an obligation to keep emails related to their official duties. They had no obligation (as now) to keep unrelated emails.

During that time frame, my understanding is that State had no mechanism to do that on an automatic basis. Instead, people within State were on an honor system to make sure they saved what they were supposed to save. That was true from the lowest level person all the way up to the Secretary.

State had an email system (@state.gov), but it apparently wasn't very reliable. This is consistent with what I know about government IT, particularly during that time frame. Secretary Clinton chose to use her preexisting @clinton.org (or whatever) email system. This was an email account she also used for her campaign, so it is not surprising that there are non-government emails on there. Presumably toward the end of her tenure at State, there were also emails relating to her future endeavors (speaking engagements, book deals, whatever). Whether using that account was a good decision or a bad decision, people can debate, but the fact is that's what she did.

When she left State, she hired lawyers to review those emails and determine what was State-department related.

A word about that -- this is a task lawyers do every single day in the context of litigation. Any time there is a civil lawsuit, the lawyers need to go through their client's documents and turn over the relevant documents to the other side. And if they intentionally do it wrong -- if they intentionally hide relevant information -- they can get in a lot of trouble. So they've developed ways to do that -- from things as simple as keyword searching (look for any email that has *@state.gov in the To/From/CC/BCC line) to more complex strategies like using machine learning to identify relevant documents.

So, to summarize, Clinton's State emails were intermixed with other emails, and she hired lawyers -- who have obligations as members of the bar and officers of the court -- to identify the ones that should be treated as official records.

Is there a possibility the lawyers made errors? Sure. When you're looking at tens of thousands of emails, even if you're 99.95% accurate, you're still going to mess up a few dozen times. But all indications are that -- given the initial decision to use the @clinton.org email -- she took reasonable steps to preserve relevant records.

Ivanka, by contrast, has just said "Trust me" and left it at that.

Look, Lawrence O'Donnell is not a news reporter. He does commentary, same as Sean Hannity. I don't begrudge Hannity for wanting Republicans to win. I begrudge him for lying, and I begrudge his network for perverting what purports to be straight news reporting. And every time someone like you says "both sides," you're turning off your brain and going with the easy answer.
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Old 03-08-19, 12:18 PM
  #1352  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
If you look into Obama's admin and the left media, you will see a comparative form of media collusion on stories and how to report them. 8 years of Obama, it was not too difficult to observe

But...you have to look and read articles on websites that are critical of the Left. Just like I have to visit critical websites of my favorites.
Did Barack Obama make late night phone calls to Rachel Maddow?

No.

Did he spend nearly every morning in bed watching Morning Joe and then reflexively tweeting all the crazy shit Mika Brzezinski said?

Hell no.

This isn't a situation where a news outlet shows favoritism towards a politician or a party; that happens all the time. This is a news outlet whose most prominent presenters are de facto members of the administration, where the president relies on that news outlet for almost 100% of his information, and where the president relies on those presenters for his policies, at the precedence of his actual administration.

This isn't a left vs right or Democrat vs Republican issue, this is a Donald Trump vs every president in living memory issue. No one was arguing similar things about the relationship between George W Bush and Fox News. Yes, people argued that he got better treatment from Fox than other news sites. But no one claimed that Fox was basically the propaganda wing of his administration.

Look, this is a free world and you're allowed to believe any crazy shit you want. But henceforth, your continued posting of unsubstantiated theories and arguments as fact, and then ignoring repeated calls to provide evidence of those assertions, will be considered trolling by the moderators, and will be dealt with as such.

Am I clear?
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Old 03-08-19, 01:46 PM
  #1353  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
But henceforth, your continued posting of unsubstantiated theories and arguments as fact, and then ignoring repeated calls to provide evidence of those assertions, will be considered trolling by the moderators, and will be dealt with as such.

Am I clear?
mod note - I will add to this statement by saying if mods email you regarding this same issue and you ignore them (as it seems to have happened recently), it will also be taken as an admission of trolling and will be dealt with by exile or suspension from the site.
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Old 03-08-19, 02:31 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

The vast majority of journalists are Democrats or non-republicans. Only about 7% are registered Republicans so the media will tend to lean left. Fox makes no bones about it, they are in the tank for the Republican side. By study, people perceive information they agree with as being impartial and information they don't agree with as being biased. Some try to at least present the air of impartiality. But most of the cable networks at least findng the eyeballs are easier to grab if they try to appeal to one or the other instead of both.
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Old 03-08-19, 04:33 PM
  #1355  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

According to the NY Times Kirsten Gillibrand has not yet secured any endorsements of her NY delegation. I think for someone so devoted to the MeToo movement and sexual harassment, she really missed the boat by waiting so long to condemn Bill Clinton's treatment of women and claims of sexual harassment and assault. You were already on the record, do it early or don't do it. To wait so long after the election then come out and say he should have quit I think hurts her. She manages to stay above the fray and corruption that is NY politics but she appears to not have many friends either. NY Times endorsements

Joe Biden has come under scrutiny for a 1975 interview about busing and integration. First of all, I think this is bullshit going back 40 years to find shit in yearbooks, old interviews, etc. Not one of us are the same people we were 40 years ago. There is not one us that didn't do, say, or think something that would be condemned now or that our thinking would have changed. I think the article is trying to insinuate there was some kind of racism going on since he was not for busing. Although they don't use the term reparations, he said he has no concern over what people did 300 (110) years ago washington post
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Old 03-10-19, 01:19 AM
  #1356  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

I admit, I haven't followed this thread for a while... but is there any disagreement among those on the left that Uncle Joe is by far the best shot to beat Trump? He would've won easily had he ran in 2016. I think he'd win easily in 2020...if he can secure the nomination. And right now...that's a big if...
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Old 03-10-19, 07:58 AM
  #1357  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
I admit, I haven't followed this thread for a while... but is there any disagreement among those on the left that Uncle Joe is by far the best shot to beat Trump? He would've won easily had he ran in 2016. I think he'd win easily in 2020...if he can secure the nomination. And right now...that's a big if...
I am in agreement with you but not many are on board. I definitely would have voted for him in 16. I think he is great. He speaks his mind without the pre-determined bullet points, hence the occasional gaffes.
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Old 03-10-19, 08:13 AM
  #1358  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
I am in agreement with you but not many are on board. I definitely would have voted for him in 16. I think he is great. He speaks his mind without the pre-determined bullet points, hence the occasional gaffes.


I would be pleasantly surprised if Biden won the nomination. In this day and age when people quickly dredge up words and actions from the past without bringing forward the context in which those words and actions occurred, there is little chance that anyone with a long public track record will be successful.

Should Biden announce his candidacy, it won't be long after that he will be painted as a racist, misogynist, and war-monger. His gaffs, like asking Chuck Graham (a paraplegic state senator) to stand to be recognized will be used to paint him as insensitive (or some equally absurd accusation).
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Old 03-10-19, 10:12 AM
  #1359  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Don't forget part of Trump's win/strategy was running on Hillary being Obama 2.0 and giving this country more of the same. He would get to trot that out again for Biden.
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Old 03-10-19, 10:17 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
Don't forget part of Trump's win/strategy was running on Hillary being Obama 2.0 and giving this country more of the same. He would get to trot that out again for Biden.
Yes but compared to the Socialist agenda, that will seem like a good compromise at the time to the middle
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Old 03-10-19, 10:20 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

I think Biden might beat trump by the widest margin but winning by the biggest margin when any number of candidates can beat him isnít a huge selling point for me.
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Old 03-10-19, 10:55 AM
  #1362  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Nesbit View Post
I think Biden might beat trump by the widest margin but winning by the biggest margin when any number of candidates can beat him isnít a huge selling point for me.
Out of the currently announced candidates, which do you think can beat Trump?
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Old 03-10-19, 11:22 AM
  #1363  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
Out of the currently announced candidates, which do you think can beat Trump?
Booker, Warren, Inslee, Bernie, Gabbard, Harris, and Huckussuckle
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Old 03-10-19, 12:24 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
Don't forget part of Trump's win/strategy was running on Hillary being Obama 2.0 and giving this country more of the same. He would get to trot that out again for Biden.
Yeah, but NOW, I think that public is WAY more willing to take "more of the same" of Obama than "more of the same" of Trump.
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Old 03-10-19, 01:48 PM
  #1365  
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Nesbit View Post


Booker, Warren, Inslee, Bernie, Gabbard, Harris, and Huckussuckle
You can scratch off those on that list who have called for reparations. After that, how many are left?
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Old 03-10-19, 02:57 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

I don't agree with that. I think reparations would/will be impossible to carry out without backlash but I dont think they'll stop anyone from voting against Trump and won't add any votes for Trump. Anyone who is going to be motivated to vote for Trump by talk of reparations will already be voting for Trump IMO.
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Old 03-10-19, 05:06 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Nesbit View Post
I don't agree with that. I think reparations would/will be impossible to carry out without backlash but I dont think they'll stop anyone from voting against Trump and won't add any votes for Trump. Anyone who is going to be motivated to vote for Trump by talk of reparations will already be voting for Trump IMO.
The disenfranchised who voted for Trump in 2016 will double-down on Trump in 2020 on the issue of reparations alone. The fact that such an act will be technically impossible to carry out makes it a dumb move by the Democrats to make this an issue.

How many moderate independents who are wrestling with rising health care costs and stagnant wages are going to be enamored by the idea of reparations for others?

Now that Bernie came out as not being for reparations, I fully expect the topic to have greater visibility during the primaries as the other try to gain traction against him... and they'll use it to feed the accusation that Bernie is racist.

I don't even know why reparations is a "thing" now.
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Old 03-10-19, 05:53 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
I don't even know why reparations is a "thing" now.
I dunno man ... I tend to think the whole reparations thing is not a big deal because it sounds like one of those "nothing" campaign promises that will be forgotten about as soon as someone gets into office. I think even the people who WANT reparations know that nothing will ever be done about. They just are happy to hear someone talk about it.
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Old 03-10-19, 06:46 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

I'm still banking on Dems showing up more than they did in 2016, kinda like how they showed up for the mid-terms last year, but even more, giving the edge to any Dem nominee over trump.
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Old 03-10-19, 06:58 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

I think we have turned the corner on single issues taking down a nominee.

Use to be several topics to stay away from. Single payer/universal/Medicare-for-all, or gun control for example. I think people realize there are topics to discuss even if action is not take.
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Old 03-10-19, 07:27 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

As this article reminds us, the radical fringe of the freshman Democratic class in Congress is something of an anomaly. They may be getting all the attention now, but most of the Democrats who picked up seats in 2018 were centrist.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/09/u...democrats.html

To such moderate Democrats, the most instructive recent election is not that of Mr. Trump in 2016 but rather the 2018 midterms, when many of the Democrats who won in battleground House districts and governor’s races were decidedly less confrontational than Mr. Sanders.

“The overwhelming majority of seats we picked up were by center-left candidates representing more centrist-type districts,” said Representative Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania, adding, “There’s still lots of folks on our side who are O.K. with compromise.”

Other Democrats are even blunter, fretting that the party risks alienating the broad middle of the electorate at a moment Mr. Trump is making no attempt to appeal to such voters.
“You live for the day in politics when the other guy is conceding the majority of the country,” said Larry Grisolano, a longtime Democratic strategist.

















































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Old 03-10-19, 08:06 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Good story on Beto entering the race. Seems GOP is worried about him. And if he secures the nomination (and thatís a big if) it puts Texas in play for the Dems.

i think more than ironic that GOP is going after Beto as being ďwhite privilegedĒ. Hello Trump. And think a bad play. Regardless of facts (and Trump proved facts donít matter), Beto comes across as not privileged. Much more than Trump.

Can Beto secure the nomination? IDK. But Iíd be all in for him.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...214805?cid=apn
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Old 03-10-19, 08:30 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
The disenfranchised who voted for Trump in 2016 will double-down on Trump in 2020 on the issue of reparations alone.
Unless they're voting twice it doesn't scare me. The democrats won't be running the most hated politician of the last 40 years and should easily run a better campaign.

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I'm still banking on Dems showing up more than they did in 2016, kinda like how they showed up for the mid-terms last year, but even more, giving the edge to any Dem nominee over trump.
Exactly. The democrats showed up in bigger number in 2018 for a midterm than ever. There's no reason to believe the same wont be true in 2020.

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post

Can Beto secure the nomination? IDK. But I’d be all in for him.
What policies of Beto's are you most excited about?
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Old 03-10-19, 08:32 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Nesbit View Post
What policies of Beto's are you most excited about?
He listens to metal!

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Old 03-10-19, 08:52 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Nesbit View Post
Unless they're voting twice it doesn't scare me.
Fake news! They don't cheat like that!







P.S. But they collect blank ballots and fill them in.
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