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New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

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New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Old 01-15-20, 06:43 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

If last night's debate is an indication of how the Democratic nominee is going to respond during the general election, Trump is going to squeak out another win. They were all weak and were submissive to the questions and how they were framed. All seemed painfully and overly rehearsed. A lot of time has been spent on talking about how to pay for their medical care programs. All of them regurgitated their talking points. None of them responded with, "... the same way we paid to bail out Wall Street. If we find the money for bombs, bullets, and billionaires, we can find the money to make sure hard-working citizens can get the care they need. Period." And if there was any push-back to that answer... double down.

Instead, they gave numeric answers in the trillions of dollars. This doesn't help.

The last-minute stunt by Warren's campaign (about what Sanders allegedly said) didn't help her. The moderators dabbled with it but then moved on... which further hurt her. Bernie gave a pretty good response that required Warren to give an equally reasoned response, but she didn't. She came off looking like a liar (which plays into Trump's narrative against her) and weak. On the twitterverse I'm seeing #NeverWarren trending and claims of misogyny in response. Ugh.
Old 01-15-20, 07:53 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

I'm with you, sracer...if this is all the Democrats are bringing to the 2020 election, we're getting four more years of Trump.
Old 01-15-20, 09:13 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

And now #neverWarren is trending on twitter. There's no fury like a Bernie Bro scorned, apparently.

One of the pundents was talking about a possible reason why they were more civil and didn't really go after each other this time. The caucus is coming up, and the way those things are set up, you really don't want to alienate another candidates voters, since if that candidate gets less than 15% of the voters, those voters are allowed to change their vote to someone else ... (and you want them to vote for you in that case)
Old 01-15-20, 10:13 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
And now #neverWarren is trending on twitter. There's no fury like a Bernie Bro scorned, apparently.

One of the pundents was talking about a possible reason why they were more civil and didn't really go after each other this time. The caucus is coming up, and the way those things are set up, you really don't want to alienate another candidates voters, since if that candidate gets less than 15% of the voters, those voters are allowed to change their vote to someone else ... (and you want them to vote for you in that case)


Another reason to get rid of the caucus in favor of a primary. The first of course is that it limits the number of voters that actually take part because of the time involved.

Old 01-15-20, 10:37 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
And now #neverWarren is trending on twitter. There's no fury like a Bernie Bro scorned, apparently.
Because we need to be fed more lies by politicians.
Old 01-15-20, 10:48 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Because we need to be fed more lies by politicians.
What I find funny (in a sad, not ha-ha sort of way) is that many Hillary defenders claimed that sexism was a major reason why she lost... that many voters didn't want to vote for a woman. In Warren's non-response deflection she raised the issue of sexism being an issue to deal with. A week ago Biden said that Hillary was a victim of sexism but that he wouldn't.... and yet it is Bernie that is being characterized as a sexist.

And now we're seeing, that the Bernie Bros are already being blamed for an eventual Democratic candidate loss.
Old 01-15-20, 11:11 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Because we need to be fed more lies by politicians.
What lies are we talking about here?
Old 01-15-20, 11:11 AM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
One of the pundents was talking about a possible reason why they were more civil and didn't really go after each other this time. The caucus is coming up, and the way those things are set up, you really don't want to alienate another candidates voters, since if that candidate gets less than 15% of the voters, those voters are allowed to change their vote to someone else ... (and you want them to vote for you in that case)
I saw that in the follow-up too, but turned it off shortly thereafter. Did they also note that a lot of the questions were candidate-specific, such that no one else really could chime in? I'm talking about Buttigieg being asked about his low polling with blacks, Bernie being asked about whether or not "Democratic socialist" will turn people off, and Steyer asked about how he made his money in the fossil fuel industry. How can anyone else respond to those questions? Does Biden jump in "Yeah, Wolf, the bruthas really don't like Mayor Pete"?

I know it's beyond naive in this day and age, but I really prefer candidates telling us why he or she is the right person for the job, not how someone else is the wrong one. And again, I'm still undecided for the primary, but I damn well will be voting for whichever of those six (or Yang) go up against Donald Trump in the fall. Being snippy isn't going to get you my primary vote though.
Old 01-15-20, 12:28 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by sracer View Post
If last night's debate is an indication of how the Democratic nominee is going to respond during the general election, Trump is going to squeak out another win. They were all weak and were submissive to the questions and how they were framed. All seemed painfully and overly rehearsed. A lot of time has been spent on talking about how to pay for their medical care programs. All of them regurgitated their talking points. None of them responded with, "... the same way we paid to bail out Wall Street. If we find the money for bombs, bullets, and billionaires, we can find the money to make sure hard-working citizens can get the care they need. Period." And if there was any push-back to that answer... double down.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Bernie say almost exactly the part I'm bolding? I know he made a comment about the money we spend on defense vs. "people living paycheck-to-paycheck", and I think damn near every candidate pointed out how the tax breaks and economy aren't helping out the average folks.

I don't know why people are thinking this was "dull" (or as Van Jones called it, "cold oatmeal"), considering they all have the same goal. This is like a sports team where individual players are lobbying as to who gets to start vs. who should be on the bench; you're propping yourself up, but the REAL enemy is the opposing team, not each other. Whether you're in the starting lineup or sitting on the bench, you're still supporting each other. I was very turned off in the previous debates when they argued vehemently about the minor details of their respective health care plans, knowing full well that ANY health care revamp that goes to Congress will look nothing like what they're currently proposing.
Old 01-15-20, 12:32 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

I did appreciate Amy K telling Bernie and Warren that even if they got elected, their health plans were pipe dreams.
Old 01-15-20, 12:35 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
What lies are we talking about here?
That Bernie, in a private meeting with Warren, said he didn't think a woman could win the presidency full stop. No qualifiers, just that.

Now maybe, maybe Bernie analyzed the climate of the country said that he didn't think a woman could win. I don't think he did. It doesn't fit in with his character or actions and he's saying he didn't but maybe he did. There is no way though that he just said it without it being clear both through his words and tone that he was disappointed in what he believed to be the political climate of the country.

She said it because it feeds into the bullshit narrative that Bernie and his supporters are sexist and because she's desperate. It won't win her the nomination and will forever be one of the things I think of when I think of Elizabeth Warren. I'm not alone.
Old 01-15-20, 12:42 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by WCChiCubsFan View Post
Do people not know how to do internet searches anymore? One simple Google search, "sanders refuses democratic nomination" and it is the very first story that comes up.

Sanders to run as a Democrat — but not accept nomination

Here is a CNN story about AOC, (pretty good piece) but it also mentions Sanders refusing the Democratic nomination in the past.

AOC should leave the Democratic Party

Edit: Adam beat me to it.
Dumb question but is he planning to do this should he win the Democratic nomination for President? I can't imagine so as that would surely guarantee a Trump win.
Old 01-15-20, 12:44 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Nesbit View Post
That Bernie, in a private meeting with Warren, said he didn't think a woman could win the presidency full stop. No qualifiers, just that.

Now maybe, maybe Bernie analyzed the climate of the country said that he didn't think a woman could win. I don't think he did. It doesn't fit in with his character or actions and he's saying he didn't but maybe he did. There is no way though that he just said it without it being clear both through his words and tone that he was disappointed in what he believed to be the political climate of the country.

She said it because it feeds into the bullshit narrative that Bernie and his supporters are sexist and because she's desperate. It won't win her the nomination and will forever be one of the things I think of when I think of Elizabeth Warren. I'm not alone.
Is any of this based on actual facts or just your own "gut feeling"?
Old 01-15-20, 12:46 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
Is any of this based on actual facts or just your own "gut feeling"?
You mean did I attend the private meeting between Bernie and Warren? No. Sorry if I represented I did.
Old 01-15-20, 12:49 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Nesbit View Post
You mean did I attend the private meeting between Bernie and Warren? No. Sorry if I represented I did.
Well you seem confident that the comment Bernie made was a lie...How do you know it's a lie if you weren't there?
Old 01-15-20, 12:50 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Nesbit View Post
You mean did I attend the private meeting between Bernie and Warren? No. Sorry if I represented I did.
Right, so there are only 2 people who know if that was a lie or not, and you aren't one of them. If he really said that she has the right to call him out on it. If he didn't then she's a liar and should be called out on that too. Problem is we really have no way of knowing, except that Warren told a couple people about it (when did she tell them, right after it happened? or recently?)

If you want to be fair about it, all you can do is shrug your shoulders and move on.
Old 01-15-20, 12:51 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

I'd have to look more into the history of "woman-can't-be-elected-gate", but Warren certainly did not accuse Bernie of saying it last night, at least. Bernie denied it, which is fine, but Warren absolutely did not say "Yes, he did say it" during the debate.
Old 01-15-20, 12:55 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
Well you seem confident that the comment Bernie made was a lie...How do you know it's a lie if you weren't there?
Because it would be inconsistent with who Bernie is, what he has said, and what he has done for 20+ years. Also inconsistent for Bernie to lie about his words and actions.

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post

If you want to be fair about it, all you can do is shrug your shoulders and move on.
Or comment about it, on a political forum, which is what I'm doing.
Old 01-15-20, 01:09 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Bring something up, have it backfire, and then deflect.

Old 01-15-20, 01:13 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Omg NO ONE knows if it was a smear or not. Posting 17 minutes videos crying about a smear just makes bernie bros seem more pathetic. I seriously don't want to hear bernie bros complain about bias reporting again for the rest of my life
Old 01-15-20, 01:29 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

The alleged comments are inconsistent with who Bernie is and Bernie is never inconsistent, therefore they must be false.

That's not circular logic at all.
Old 01-15-20, 01:42 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Sure, there’s absolutely no history of misogyny from Bernie and his supporters. No charges language directed at women at all.


Old 01-15-20, 01:48 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

From this link: https://www.mic.com/articles/137707/...nternet-is-mad

Anyone can register a campaign event on Sanders' website and that's exactly what 39-year-old Joe Smith said he did a few months ago when he wanted to show his support for Sanders. Smith, the owner of Piezano's Pizza Kitchen in Elizabeth, New Jersey, as the event description reads, told Mic around 30 people showed up to the viewing party, which he held in the restaurant's dining room.

Smith said he named the event "Bern the Witch" because it was timely: The first Democratic debate aired on October 13th just a couple weeks before Halloween. "I'm referring to the fact that [Hillary Clinton] is a candidate we have to defeat," Smith said. "In the spirit of the Halloween season and 'Feel the Bern' being the mantra of the candidate's campaign they kind of connected."

_________________________________

Are there misogynists among the million and millions of Bernie supporters? Sure, most definitely.

Is it consistent with Bernie's character to say a woman can't win as some sort of slam against women? The same Bernie who has pushed and supported women for every level of government since the 80s? No. Not at all.
Old 01-15-20, 01:53 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by Paff View Post
I'd have to look more into the history of "woman-can't-be-elected-gate", but Warren certainly did not accuse Bernie of saying it last night, at least. Bernie denied it, which is fine, but Warren absolutely did not say "Yes, he did say it" during the debate.
She implied it when she said, "I disagreed." when asked how she responded to the statement Sanders made (which he just denied seconds earlier). If she knows that Sanders didn't say it, then she would've said that he didn't say it.

If Sanders really did say that in the sexist framing that he's being accused of then why did Warren sit on this for over a year?

Old 01-15-20, 01:57 PM
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Re: New! Improved! The 2020 Presidential Election Thread: It's Never Over! Edition

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Sure, there’s absolutely no history of misogyny from Bernie and his supporters. No charges language directed at women at all.

https://twitter.com/trinitymustache/status/1217187423626510336
With that kind of vetting of information no wonder people believed that Hillary was operating a pedophile ring out of a pizzeria.

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