Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

Dallas Police Shootings

Old 07-08-16, 05:57 PM
  #151  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 61,022
Received 903 Likes on 607 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
So, am I wrong? You don't believe Whites want to enslave the Black man?[/quote


Who was the guy that just as recently as July 4th was commenting on "Independence Day".

And who was the person who told that person to celebrate TODAY, and move forward, instead of being prejudiced and continually looking at the past as a reference point of current-day life.
-Yes you are wrong. Nothing new there. I don't believe ALL Whites want to enslave the Black Man. So yes...YOU made that up.

-I was the guy who pointed out July 4th 1776 has a very different meaning for me. I am FREE to do that doncha know. Freedom can go both ways, not just when it benefits White guys.

-You. In a typical "I'm a white guy and I know what you need and what you should do better than you do" fashion" were that guy.
Old 07-08-16, 06:04 PM
  #152  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 53,754
Received 152 Likes on 112 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Ok, I may have misspoken. You just believe MOST Whites want to enslave Blacks.
Old 07-08-16, 06:09 PM
  #153  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 61,022
Received 903 Likes on 607 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Exactly how does all of the blustering about "white privilege" do one iota of benefit to a black person?
White Privilege is well...It's kinda like GOD.

Not everyone believes in him. Not everyone actively seeks to benefit from him. But somehow he's still there doing his thing.
Old 07-08-16, 06:12 PM
  #154  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Gateway Cities/Harbor Region
Posts: 61,022
Received 903 Likes on 607 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Ok, I may have misspoken. You just believe MOST Whites want to enslave Blacks.
Well, there is a history of this behavior.

A bad history doesn't only apply to Black Kids killed by cops or Neighborhood watchmen...
Old 07-08-16, 06:14 PM
  #155  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,150
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
It's very enlightening to hear all of the "white people" doing the hand-wringing & finger-pointing about "white privilege" (but never toward themselves, naturally) keep talking about how "both sides" this and that.

Both sides?

This is exactly the type of divisive nonsense that creates & perpetuates the problem of racism. When we insist upon seeing "Us" vs. "Them"...as though we are choosing "sides" in some type of contest or power struggle...then we have no stake in solving the problem for everyone (and not just "us").

I submit that those who keep talking about "sides" should start thinking about making things better for all races and quit talking about "sides."

When you start choosing "sides," you automatically put others in opposing groups. And you totally misunderstand the point behind "All Lives Matter." "All" means ALL.

The statement was made that "Black Lives Matter" includes others (that there is an understood "too" that isn't stated). Why can you acknowledge that and not see that "all"...by definition...is stating the same thing. "All" states unequivocably that every race should be treated equally. It doesn't diminish the lives of any race.

If one wants to talk about specific problems associated with a particular racial group, do so. But don't act as though "white privilege" is to blame for unjust treatment of other groups. Folks here have acknowledged that, in American society, Europeans had a leg up on other racial groups. What does that have to do with racial injustice? One can be the recipient of "white privilege" while being the most vocal advocate for equal rights in the country.
I would think that being an educator, you'd understand that it's necessary to analyze the factors that lead to a certain status quo, because if we don't, we make a lot of assumptions that the status quo is how things should be, how they've always been, and how they always should be.

To take one innocuous example, wholly divorced from the discussion of race: The phrase "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 in response to the Red Scare, as Congress wanted to differentiate us from Communists by stressing the nation's religiosity. Most people have no idea that "Under God" was not originally part of the pledge, nor the reasons for adding it, and thus they argue from a place of ignorance that it's always been there and therefore always should be (by the way, I am not trying to start a discussion about the Pledge nor am I commenting on whether or not the phrase should remain there, I am simply using it as an example because it's tidy).

I understand people having a negative response when they hear about white privilege. I had a negative response too. I remember saying, "But I'm not racist! How can I be benefiting at the expense of others?" But as I learned what the concept meant, and how it's a symptom of our institutional structures, it made a lot more sense. It's not about taking sides, it's about understanding the socioeconomic factors that come into play and how it affects different groups differently.

The impulse to say if we treat all groups the same, that's equality is completely sensible, if there were no factors outside of how we individually treat those groups. But there are outside factors and they have to be understood so they can be taken into account and allow us to properly treat the problem instead of making a blanket solution that doesn't actually help, even if the intentions are good.

I'll point you to the comments above about Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter. The latter is a true statement, but it does nothing to address the problems of the former. And that's because of these other factors.
Old 07-08-16, 06:54 PM
  #156  
DVD Talk Legend
 
AGuyNamedMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: (formerly known as Inglenook Hampendick) Fairbanks, Alaska!
Posts: 16,665
Received 308 Likes on 215 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Heck, I was born in the Sixties South™ and I'm damn_grateful for my white privilege, having seen what life could be like for my neighbors born without it.
Old 07-08-16, 07:02 PM
  #157  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,580
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
I'll point you to the comments above about Black Lives Matter and All Lives Matter. The latter is a true statement, but it does nothing to address the problems of the former. And that's because of these other factors.
Sigh.

Tell you what.

You keep discussing "white privilege" if that makes you feel better.

I'll just keep giving direct assistance to needy kids & families...regardless of race.

We'll give the families a choice...would they rather have someone helping them out directly, or would they rather hear another lecture on "white privilege?"
Old 07-08-16, 07:04 PM
  #158  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,580
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by AGuyNamedMike View Post
Heck, I was born in the Sixties South™ and I'm damn_grateful for my white privilege, having seen what life could be like for my neighbors born without it.
Personally, I'm glad for ANY privilege (including help from neighbors, teachers, clergy, relatives, strangers) that has allowed me to be in a position to help others both financially and in learning skills to improve their lives for themselves.
Old 07-08-16, 07:07 PM
  #159  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Unknown
Posts: 4,091
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Sigh.

Tell you what.

You keep discussing "white privilege" if that makes you feel better.

I'll just keep giving direct assistance to needy kids & families...regardless of race.

We'll give the families a choice...would they rather have someone helping them out directly, or would they rather hear another lecture on "white privilege?"
You like to make a lot of assumptions about what people are not doing.

The two are not mutually exclusive.
Old 07-08-16, 07:20 PM
  #160  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,580
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post
You like to make a lot of assumptions about what people are not doing.

The two are not mutually exclusive.
No, dave, you are among those who like to make assumptions about what others think (based upon recent remarks in other threads). My meds are working just fine, btw.

I didn't hear anyone else talking about concrete actions...just a lot of hot air about "white privilege."

I even asked exactly what benefit people received from such hand-wringing...and got no response.

What else are we to assume if no one can identify any concrete benefits of sitting around feeling guilty about "privilege?"

I suggested specific actions that have immediate AND long-term benefits, ranging from the physical to the spiritual and emotional.

I've acknowledged several times that, as someone of European descent, I've benefited from a head start. Now...how many times do I have to say it, and what good does it do to repeat it?

I'd rather extend my privilege and share it with others. No, the two aren't mutually exclusive. But can we just wear a tee-shirt proclaiming our privilege so we can shut up about it and get on with the business of helping people?

Personally, I'm pretty sure that those in need would rather receive tangible benefits. If some feel that they need to guilt or shame people into action, go for it. But not everyone needs to hear that repeatedly in order to motivate them to help others.
Old 07-08-16, 07:22 PM
  #161  
DVD Talk Legend
 
hdnmickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cygnus
Posts: 12,524
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

I imagine many people posting here do a lot of volunteering and provide assistance for people from all races and backgrounds. But real change only comes when there is help AND a unified belief that long term changes are needed. Seems there is often help from those that refuse to acknowledge that there is more to it that than acute short term needs. Typical (see Thanksgiving day volunteers), but only half the battle. Like I posted earlier, that can only come when both sides agree to work on the issue rather than go on about ALM or resort to violence.
Old 07-08-16, 07:24 PM
  #162  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,150
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Sigh.

Tell you what.

You keep discussing "white privilege" if that makes you feel better.

I'll just keep giving direct assistance to needy kids & families...regardless of race.

We'll give the families a choice...would they rather have someone helping them out directly, or would they rather hear another lecture on "white privilege?"
That's presumptuous. First, you don't know what I do or don't do outside of these forums, and second, since when does talking mean a person never takes action? Where in any of my posts did I say "Don't bother helping people, a good lecture on white privilege will suffice"?

You asked for an explanation as to why the discussion of white privilege was necessary. I gave you an explanation, free of condescension, snark, or any kind of piling on. The result was that you dismissed everything I had to say, and held yourself up as superior for not even bothering to discuss it.
Old 07-08-16, 07:37 PM
  #163  
DVD Talk Legend
 
AGuyNamedMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: (formerly known as Inglenook Hampendick) Fairbanks, Alaska!
Posts: 16,665
Received 308 Likes on 215 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
...since when does talking mean a person never takes action
It's usually the case.

See:
elected officials
TV pundits
fucking bloggers

Of course, you're walking the walk while talking the talk, which is great!

But there's just so much talk without the walk going on that any talk comes across as so much noise anymore.

That's my personal take, I don't pretend to speak for anyone else.
Old 07-08-16, 07:47 PM
  #164  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Cleburne, TX
Posts: 489
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by trespoochies View Post
What the fuck, just got a Breaking news from USA Today that now the US Capital is on lockdown. I doubt it's related, but still.
Fill the Mall.
Old 07-08-16, 08:21 PM
  #165  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cungar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 22,917
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 9 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
I imagine many people posting here do a lot of volunteering and provide assistance for people from all races and backgrounds. But real change only comes when there is help AND a unified belief that long term changes are needed. Seems there is often help from those that refuse to acknowledge that there is more to it that than acute short term needs. Typical (see Thanksgiving day volunteers), but only half the battle. Like I posted earlier, that can only come when both sides agree to work on the issue rather than go on about ALM or resort to violence.
Old 07-08-16, 08:24 PM
  #166  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,580
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
That's presumptuous. First, you don't know what I do or don't do outside of these forums, and second, since when does talking mean a person never takes action? Where in any of my posts did I say "Don't bother helping people, a good lecture on white privilege will suffice"?

You asked for an explanation as to why the discussion of white privilege was necessary. I gave you an explanation, free of condescension, snark, or any kind of piling on. The result was that you dismissed everything I had to say, and held yourself up as superior for not even bothering to discuss it.
Now, now, Mallet. Wouldn't want to display a persecution complex.

When I posted earlier about "all lives matter," I got piled on pretty hard by those who implied that "white people's opinions" aren't needed for this issue...despite the fact that plenty of "white people" seem to be commenting.

I wasn't commenting upon your acts of charity or lack thereof. You could be the most philanthropic person alive, and I'd still have posted my remarks. I was just getting tired of hearing about all this talk with little mention of direct action. And I asked what the direct benefit of discussing "white privilege" was to minorities.

I told you what my solutions would be. The remarks weren't directed toward you personally since there were pages of discussion about "white privilege." You just happened to be representative of all those talking about the topic. I don't have any problem with people discussing the subject from an academic standpoint, but exactly what are you proposing to do to change "white privilege?"

If you want to read my preferred line of action as "holding myself up as superior," so be it. Personally, I do think that direct action is a superior choice to endless talking about a problem without suggesting remedies, which is what I was getting from the conversation. I wasn't the only one who thought this was a lot of hand-wringing (the term "collective guilt" was used).

I'm affording you an honest explanation to clear up my intentions...not to apologize for something never meant. If it takes this wall of text to explain, I'll do so out of respect for past discussions and because I think other posters deserve a response.

If the earlier post came off as snarky or dismissive, it wasn't meant as a personal insult toward you. It was an expression of being tired of too much talk and too little action.
Old 07-08-16, 08:26 PM
  #167  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,580
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Like I posted earlier, that can only come when both sides agree to work on the issue rather than go on about ALM or resort to violence.
Perhaps it would be helpful for you to identify the two "sides."
Old 07-08-16, 08:47 PM
  #168  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Nick Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 27,873
Received 895 Likes on 587 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Real Americans and troublemakers?

Early this morning I checked the comments under the news story in the Dallas Observer. Every single commenter believed that dead white cops is the natural outcome of allowing BLM demonstrations. I got creeped out.
Old 07-08-16, 08:49 PM
  #169  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,580
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

I'm sure that mickey has a clear explanation of who makes up each "side."
Old 07-08-16, 10:54 PM
  #170  
Moderator
 
story's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hope.
Posts: 11,866
Received 1,037 Likes on 601 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by stvn1974 View Post
my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the slain cops. Now these police officers will never have the chance to shoot and kill an unarmed black man.
Puke.
Old 07-08-16, 10:58 PM
  #171  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 53,754
Received 152 Likes on 112 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/politi...ton-joe-biden/

Hillary Clinton pledged Friday to bring law enforcement and communities together to develop national guidelines on the use of force by police officers, days after two black men were killed by police officers.
So, here we go again. And believe it or not, I'm not picking on Hillary per se.

What EXACTLY can be done to increase procedures for use of force? Because in the Baton Rouge shooting, the person had a gun. So, are we going to make rules that say you can only shoot a person ONCE if they have a gun and then back off?

And in the case of Minnesota, what more could be done there? It seems as if that cop was extremely on edge, and in his mind, thought the person was going for a gun. How does implementing new guidelines prevent a cop from thinking a person is going for a weapon?

See, this is what I don't get when people protest these kinds of shootings. You cannot legislate THOUGHT.
Old 07-08-16, 11:11 PM
  #172  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
You asked for an explanation as to why the discussion of white privilege was necessary. I gave you an explanation, free of condescension, snark, or any kind of piling on. The result was that you dismissed everything I had to say, and held yourself up as superior for not even bothering to discuss it.
Relax, he's just following Jesus' commandment to make judgmental assumptions about other people while bragging about his own good works. It's right there in Matthew 12, uh ... no, maybe Luke ... Mark ... John ... huh, I coulda sworn I saw it in there somewhere.
Old 07-08-16, 11:16 PM
  #173  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
What EXACTLY can be done to increase procedures for use of force? Because in the Baton Rouge shooting, the person had a gun. So, are we going to make rules that say you can only shoot a person ONCE if they have a gun and then back off?
How about saying cops can't shoot someone if they don't have a gun in their actual hand, and prosecuting any cop who violates that rule for murder, with the law crafted in such a way as to make it extremely difficult for a jury to let the cop off because they think he just made a little boo-boo.
Old 07-08-16, 11:21 PM
  #174  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,457
Received 154 Likes on 107 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
How about saying cops can't shoot someone if they don't have a gun in their actual hand, and prosecuting any cop who violates that rule for murder, with the law crafted in such a way as to make it extremely difficult for a jury to let the cop off because they think he just made a little boo-boo.
"No deal!"
Old 07-09-16, 04:06 AM
  #175  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Macon, Ga
Posts: 1,769
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: Dallas Police Shootings

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
How about saying cops can't shoot someone if they don't have a gun in their actual hand, and prosecuting any cop who violates that rule for murder, with the law crafted in such a way as to make it extremely difficult for a jury to let the cop off because they think he just made a little boo-boo.
yeah I don't think that's going to happen. You're putting a lot of faith in the other guy not immediately firing upon the police before they have a chance to reach for their weapon.

Ex: Cop pulls a guy over (by this law he's not allowed to have his weapon drawn yet) gets to the car and before he has a chance to see that the driver already has he weapon out, he's shot.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.