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Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

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Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Old 06-20-16, 03:07 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
I would assume that there are lifetime counter terrorism experts that advise the President not to publicize and give ISIL legitimacy by using their name? Seems pretty simple.

That being said, I just think they should have withheld the entire thing and let the experts parse the phone calls. Now we have "internet detectives" on the case.
If everyone knows who the group is, the omissions are pointless and actually demonstrate the FEAR that ISIS wants. ISIS wants to strike fear into Americans and the omission of their name gives them more power. Because it makes the US Government look like a bunch of cowards. If you cannot even mention your attacker's name, you've already lost the war on terror. Because that's exactly what terror is supposed to do. To keep you quiet and afraid.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 06-20-16 at 03:15 PM.
Old 06-20-16, 03:15 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

***And now the FBI/DOJ reverses their genius actions and have released the un-omitted transcripts.***

When the next terrorist attack happens, I bet Obama/Hillary blames Republicans for the attack because they forced the FBI into releasing the full transcripts.
Old 06-20-16, 03:17 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

You right-wingers aren't giving the administration enough credit. They want to rally the country around the idea of fighting ISIS and everything they stand for, and they knew that if they initially omitted the references to ISIS, that in itself would become a huge story, and then everyone would be focused on the ISIS references. It's just like FDR's administration trying to galvanize public support to join the war in Europe.

The president is always one step ahead of his dimwitted critics.
Old 06-20-16, 03:43 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
They mention NAZI in another other release.

Why not omit that word?

Spin that, Shaggy.
Every time one of these shootings happen, we hear all sorts of response about "Don't give the shooter what he wants! Don't give him publicity! Don't mention his name to prevent copycats!" And it seems to me that rebroadcatsing praise for ISIS over and over might not be the best thing to do.

I would think we could agree on that, but apparently not. Apparently, when you want to prove Obama is a secret Muslim sympathizer, all of that goes out the window so you can bitch about how if he'd only say the magic words, the terrorists would slink off into a corner and die, or whatever it is you think would have happened if that transcript hadn't been redacted.
Old 06-20-16, 04:01 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
If everyone knows who the group is, the omissions are pointless and actually demonstrate the FEAR that ISIS wants. ISIS wants to strike fear into Americans and the omission of their name gives them more power. Because it makes the US Government look like a bunch of cowards. If you cannot even mention your attacker's name, you've already lost the war on terror. Because that's exactly what terror is supposed to do. To keep you quiet and afraid.
You are confusing quiet with cowardice. You are so ready to go to war you can't even stop to think when and how it needs to be done.
When Obama took out Osama Bin Laden, was there public reports about the mission or was Obama constantly taking about killing him on the media, no he just ran the operation underground, they killed him and then made the announcement.
Old 06-20-16, 04:08 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Every time one of these shootings happen, we hear all sorts of response about "Don't give the shooter what he wants! Don't give him publicity! Don't mention his name to prevent copycats!" And it seems to me that rebroadcatsing praise for ISIS over and over might not be the best thing to do.

I would think we could agree on that, but apparently not. Apparently, when you want to prove Obama is a secret Muslim sympathizer, all of that goes out the window so you can bitch about how if he'd only say the magic words, the terrorists would slink off into a corner and die, or whatever it is you think would have happened if that transcript hadn't been redacted.
I won't disagree with you that reducing attention to a terrorist group does help neutralize it's legitimacy.

But simply omitting the name of the terrorist group from a press release on a government website is not the way to do it.

The news media has given so much attention already to the Orlando shooting, sponsored by ISIS, do you really think the US Government not mentioning their name is somehow going to help? I don't think it would. It just makes them look stupid.

You can actually help a terrorist organization by appearing to be so politically correct and fighting with internal political opponents over these types of issues, that this "reduce attention" process is negated and you actually end up looking more afraid than powerful.

That's the problem I see here.

When we have the media repeating information, revealing information from leaked sources, and then in contrast the government omits only one key word which identifies the terrorist organization, the whole concept of attention reduction just doesn't work.

Identifying the shooter and their associated terrorist group, if any, can be done tactfully, but just don't continually report on it. That's the issue I have. And this is not to do with the government...it's the news media.

And I think our agreement with attention to shooters, is more to do with the news media giving so much coverage versus us in disagreement over a single US Government website page naming a terrorist organization that everyone already knows exists, and is afraid of.
Old 06-20-16, 04:14 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by nando820 View Post
You are confusing quiet with cowardice. You are so ready to go to war you can't even stop to think when and how it needs to be done.
When Obama took out Osama Bin Laden, was there public reports about the mission or was Obama constantly taking about killing him on the media, no he just ran the operation underground, they killed him and then made the announcement.
Ok, so let's destroy ISIS and have Obama make the announcement.

In order to defeat ISIS, we cannot be silent. We need to broadcast their defeat on a daily basis, showing video of their demise and destruction, as well as provide the public information of their human rights violations and murders of innocent people, as well as countries who support such a belief system.
Old 06-20-16, 04:36 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Thank goodness that whenever a white supremacist or a gangbanger goes on a killing spree we can still hear about whichever organization he belonged to. Come to think of it, it's only for one particular category of murderer that we must protect the public from information.
Old 06-20-16, 04:44 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.

George Orwell - "1984"

Obama's administration is afraid the cognitive dissonance caused by the Orlando terrorist attack felt on the Left will change some votes in the Democrat base for the 2016 election cycle. Nothing more, nothing less. The truth is the first casualty.
Old 06-20-16, 06:18 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.

George Orwell - "1984"

Obama's administration is afraid the cognitive dissonance caused by the Orlando terrorist attack felt on the Left will change some votes in the Democrat base for the 2016 election cycle. Nothing more, nothing less. The truth is the first casualty.
You mean it's kind of like someone blaming the 9/11 Benghazi attack on a obscure YouTube video?
Old 06-20-16, 06:44 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
***And now the FBI/DOJ reverses their genius actions and have released the un-omitted transcripts.***

When the next terrorist attack happens, I bet Obama/Hillary blames Republicans for the attack because they forced the FBI into releasing the full transcripts.
The FBI and Department of Justice released a full transcript of the Orlando gunman's 911-call on Monday afternoon amid outrage that the original transcript omitted reference to the terror group ISIL.

In a joint statement, officials said they released the partial transcript and omitted any reference to ISIL so as not to provide the terror group with additional publicity, which could be used for "hateful propaganda" purposes.

Officials noted that the uproar over the omissions in the transcript instead created an "unnecessary distraction" from the ongoing investigation.

"As much of this information had been previously reported, we have re-issued the complete transcript to include these references in order to provide the highest level of transparency possible under the circumstances," the FBI and DOJ said in the statement.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ript/86139678/

So it's transparency when you get called out for your [omitted]. Give me a [omitted] break.
Old 06-20-16, 07:07 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

No, wait. He said "ISIS"? OMFG!!!!!111111!!!!
Old 06-20-16, 07:46 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Ok, so let's destroy ISIS and have Obama make the announcement.

In order to defeat ISIS, we cannot be silent. We need to broadcast their defeat on a daily basis, showing video of their demise and destruction, as well as provide the public information of their human rights violations and murders of innocent people, as well as countries who support such a belief system.
But that's what Isis wants you to do. By doing that, you play into their hands, legitimizing their bullshit, pretending like they're more successful than they really are. Why do you want to help Isis in what is probably their biggest goal?

And you recall the last time someone said "mission accomplished" before it was time, right?
Old 06-20-16, 07:51 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
No, wait. He said "ISIS"? OMFG!!!!!111111!!!!
Obama gun make yoo Bandomitted if you keep that up!
Old 06-20-16, 07:59 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
But that's what Isis wants you to do. By doing that, you play into their hands, legitimizing their bullshit, pretending like they're more successful than they really are. Why do you want to help Isis in what is probably their biggest goal?

And you recall the last time someone said "mission accomplished" before it was time, right?
ISIS' biggest goal is concerned with killing as many Western people as possible and spreading fear.

ISIS gets more publicity and increased validation they are a power to be reckoned with, because since their name is too holy to be even be named by their enemies, it makes their organization even more glamorous.

And why wasn't "Allah" used in the transcript, and instead, replaced with "God". I find that odd as well. There is so much fear of offending people in the Obama Administration, they're not focusing on the threat. Islam is not the only religion in the world. We need to treat every terrorist organization, no matter where their allegiances are, and present the facts to the American public, not to mention, the world.
Old 06-20-16, 09:01 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

I'll ask again; why are you trying to help Isis by legitimizing them?
Old 06-20-16, 09:35 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.

George Orwell - "1984"

Obama's administration is afraid the cognitive dissonance caused by the Orlando terrorist attack felt on the Left will change some votes in the Democrat base for the 2016 election cycle. Nothing more, nothing less. The truth is the first casualty.
I mentioned this to my wife this morning that this reminded me of 1984. Hard to believe anyone supported this or believed the complete bullshit reason they put forward. Unreal.
Old 06-20-16, 11:38 PM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

My Muslim friend posted this on facebook today, thought it was pretty interesting. Editorial at the Washington Post from one of the guys in the local Muslim community that reported the shooter to the FBI earlier.

Didn't see it posted yet.

I reported Omar Mateen to the FBI. Trump is wrong that Muslims don’t do our part.
Old 06-21-16, 08:30 AM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by dork View Post
Thank goodness that whenever a white supremacist or a gangbanger goes on a killing spree we can still hear about whichever organization he belonged to. Come to think of it, it's only for one particular category of murderer that we must protect the public from information.
Thank goodness people who actually work in the field of counter terrorism don't equate international terrorists groups with domestic crime policy. Is your counter terrorism degree from Georgetown or American?
Old 06-21-16, 08:39 AM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

We can't even agree (and by "we" I mean both the public and White House) on how a simple press release is done.

No wonder we can't make headway on actually reducing these.
Old 06-21-16, 08:40 AM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Thank goodness people who actually work in the field of counter terrorism don't equate international terrorists groups with domestic crime policy. Is your counter terrorism degree from Georgetown or American?
Can you, with a straight face, honestly assert that if the shooter had pledged allegiance to the Ku Klux Klan and the brotherhood of all white people, that the Obama administration would have redacted that from the transcript so as not to give credence to the Ku Klux Klan? Furthermore, would you have supported that?
Old 06-21-16, 08:49 AM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey View Post
My Muslim friend posted this on facebook today, thought it was pretty interesting. Editorial at the Washington Post from one of the guys in the local Muslim community that reported the shooter to the FBI earlier.

Didn't see it posted yet.

I reported Omar Mateen to the FBI. Trump is wrong that Muslims donít do our part.
Yes, that's a great example of the moderate Muslim.

Notice the almost complete lack of humility or introspection in that piece.

Is there even the slightest sense of responsibility that Islam is producing terrorists around the world? No. Any outrage that would lead to some kind of massive Muslim "not in our name" movement? No.

Any ideas for any way to counter the religious message of the extremists, or any call to form groups to teach why the extremist interpretation of Islam is wrong? No.

Any need to form a more liberal strain of Islam? No.

His message is that Islam is a wonderful, peaceful religion as it is, Muslims are doing everything that could be expected of them, and anyone who says anything different is an Islamophobe. Do you really think this attitude is going to help the situation in any way?

I would encourage people to distinguish between Muslim "moderates" like this, and genuine Muslim reformers. What genuine Muslim reformers say is very different:

http://www.democracyinlebanon.org/Do...ManjiEssay.htm
Old 06-21-16, 10:25 AM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Is there even the slightest sense of responsibility that Islam is producing terrorists around the world? No. Any outrage that would lead to some kind of massive Muslim "not in our name" movement? No.
The Muslim "not in our name" movement should pattern itself after the Christian "not in our name" movement that sprung out of the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood attack.

And there are loads of Muslims who take up the "Not in My Name" cry every time one of these attacks happen. But because they are not willing to reject Islam as a whole -- because they still go to mosque and pray toward Mecca and revere Muhammad -- you reject them even as they walk the walk of living western lives that value equality of the sexes, liberal values, and all the other things that we hold dear.
Old 06-21-16, 10:39 AM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Can you, with a straight face, honestly assert that if the shooter had pledged allegiance to the Ku Klux Klan and the brotherhood of all white people, that the Obama administration would have redacted that from the transcript so as not to give credence to the Ku Klux Klan? Furthermore, would you have supported that?
Old 06-21-16, 10:40 AM
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Re: Orlando, Florida nightclub shooting: 50 dead, 53 injured

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
The Muslim "not in our name" movement should pattern itself after the Christian "not in our name" movement that sprung out of the Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood attack.

And there are loads of Muslims who take up the "Not in My Name" cry every time one of these attacks happen. But because they are not willing to reject Islam as a whole -- because they still go to mosque and pray toward Mecca and revere Muhammad -- you reject them even as they walk the walk of living western lives that value equality of the sexes, liberal values, and all the other things that we hold dear.
Your inability to distinguish between Muslims like Irshad Manji and the spokesmen of CAIR is emblematic of the left's desire to eat their cake and have it too.

It's kind of like saying "I'm a great supporter of Martin Luther King Jr and everything he stands for, but I don't think that's reason for us to demonize all of the well-meaning, law-abiding, family-raising segregationists in the south."

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