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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 01-25-16, 01:03 PM   #101
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Speaking of the impetus for this discussion, here is a link re: a recent interview (Nov. 2015) with Cecile Richards (conducted by Katie Couric):

https://www.yahoo.com/katiecouric/pl...141758930.html

In the article, Richards states that she had an abortion purely for "birth control" reasons:

“It was a decision my husband and I made. It was a personal decision. And we have three children that we adore and that are the center of my life. And we decided that was as big as our family needed to be,” says Richards. “It wasn’t anything more dramatic than that. But I can’t imagine a woman being in that circumstance — with an unintended pregnancy and not being able to make her own decision about that pregnancy.”


This is the truth of the matter despite all of the talk about abortions due to "endangerment of health," "inability to care for a child," etc. The vast majority of abortions are performed merely as "back-up birth control"...even for women of means such as Richards. They are usually done as measures of convenience for the mother and not for any other reason.

This is what Planned Parenthood stands for. For all of you "extremists" who DO feel that at some point the "fetus" becomes a "human being" with rights that should be protected even while still in the womb, YOU are regarded by Planned Parenthood as being the "enemy of women"...that is, if you would support legislation that would place legal limitations upon abortions.
If you want to argue it back far enough, hormonal birth control is also abortion and should also be banned. Catholics, for example, lump it in with abortion. Slightly different reasoning, though.
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Old 01-25-16, 01:09 PM   #102
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
And you continue to say that you have given an answer yet refuse to cite it. Surely that would take less time and be easier than continuing your refusal to back up your claim.
If this was the only section on the site, and the only thread I was interested in following, sure. I suggest just enjoying those willing to humor you once again.
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Old 01-25-16, 01:31 PM   #103
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Thank you, Lib.

Edit: Sorry that I didn't edit quickly enough. It was nice of you not to blast me for ignoring your earlier post in which you answered most of my questions already (the confusing question was meant for those who personally believe that the fetus has a right to live at some stage yet still grant autonomy as long as the fetus is still within the womb...and the question was probably a bit redundant, but I was trying to think of all possible responses).

But your answers were most helpful, along with Bando's, so I'm glad you got a chance to post the details you did. And "correction" to your stance noted.

Thanks again to both you & Bando.
Thank you.

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Old 01-25-16, 01:45 PM   #104
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
If this was the only section on the site, and the only thread I was interested in following, sure. I suggest just enjoying those willing to humor you once again.
That took a lot more time to type than simply responding "Yes" or "No."

Didn't take making a commitment to a position, though, so guess it was worth it.
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Old 01-25-16, 01:48 PM   #105
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by GreenMonkey View Post
If you want to argue it back far enough, hormonal birth control is also abortion and should also be banned. Catholics, for example, lump it in with abortion. Slightly different reasoning, though.
So, do you support any legal limits upon abortion?
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Old 01-25-16, 01:53 PM   #106
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
That took a lot more time to type than simply responding "Yes" or "No."

Didn't take making a commitment to a position, though, so guess it was worth it.
If you have a specific question like this one, it's probably best to leave out the other snarky garbage.

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Here's a simple question for you: Do you support imposing legal limits upon abortion at certain stages of pregnancy?
Yes, I could. Pro-choice folks are not the ones making this issue all or nothing decision. That said, I've answered this before, in detail, just as other have repeated in this thread. Other than a few disagreements about exactly when and why (20 months vs. 24) the answer is the same. And no, I'm not going to try and type it all again just to have you get snarky about my many typos. I've posted multiple times about why there are so many typos and why I keep my posts as short as possible (fingers are trashed from many years of sports).

Last edited by hdnmickey; 01-25-16 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 01-25-16, 02:01 PM   #107
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post

Yes, I could. Pro-choice folks are not the ones making this issue and all other nothing decision.
Thank you for (finally) answering. Re: your reposting...you can copy & paste, you know.

But to your answer (although you still didn't say whether you DO support limits...only that you COULD. That's still being non-commital).

So does that mean that "pro-choice" people ARE willing to restrict the choice of women who disagree? In other words, is the "choice" absolute or is the choice conditional? If the latter, it would be great if you could state the condition(s).

Also, just curious. You don't consider your posts (start with the second one in this thread...the non-Palin one) to be examples of "snark?"
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Old 01-25-16, 02:08 PM   #108
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Thank you for (finally) answering. Re: your reposting...you can copy & paste, you know.

So does that mean that "pro-choice" people ARE willing to restrict the choice of women who disagree? In other words, is the "choice" absolute or is the choice conditional? If the latter, it would be great if you could state the condition(s).
Yes. And as I posted in just the post before, it's the same answer that others have repeated for you in this thread.

Quote:
Also, just curious. You don't consider your posts (start with the first one in this thread) to be examples of "snark?"
Difference is I don't respond like you just did when you ignore them. If I choose to get snarky, it's on me if the post gets ignored. And given the (finally) included above, it seems like you can't help yourself and snarky posts will be ignored.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 01-25-16 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 01-25-16, 02:46 PM   #109
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Yes. And as I posted in just the post before, it's the same answer that others have repeated for you in this thread.

Difference is I don't respond like you just did when you ignore them. If I choose to get snarky, it's on me if the post gets ignored. And given the (finally) included above, it seems like you can't help yourself and those posts will be ignored.
I can't make heads or tails of your last paragraph, but for the record, choosing the wrong word entirely...such as "tenants" instead of "tenets"...is not a typo. It's simply choosing the wrong word. The only reason that I point that out (you had several actual typos in some posts above, but I didn't call attention to them) is when you engage in broad-brush insults toward large groups of people that are factually and demonstrably incorrect, which you have done in the past & continue to do. It's just a reminder that one needs too be careful when mocking others since it can come back to bite you. Just as quoting Zora Hurston can do ).

But I digress.

The point is that some here have a long history of criticizing anti-abortion folks for wanting to "keep women subservient," "making women slaves," "treating women as second-class citizens," etc. based upon stances on abortion. Yet those same posters would likely object to having the same criticisms hurled toward themselves by those with more radical "pro-choice" views...such as the good folks at Planned Parenthood.

It would be nice if such "pro-choice" yet "supporting restrictions" posters would acknowledge that, in the minds of those with extreme views on abortion, those posters are also "fanatics." I doubt that bothers such posters (join the club), but it might be good to remember the next time one wants to label others as being "fanatical" about the topic.
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Old 01-25-16, 02:54 PM   #110
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
choosing the wrong word entirely...such as "tenants" instead of "tenets"...is not a typo.
Depends on just how badly the word is typed and what auto-correct does with it.

Yet again, you just can't help yourself. I answer your question, or in this case explain very plainly why, and you find a way to include more snark.

I believe not too long ago you agreed to a reply that simply read - futile. And again, I completely agree.
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Old 01-25-16, 03:02 PM   #111
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Depends on just how badly the word is typed and what auto-correct does with it.

Yet again, you just can't help yourself. I answer your question, or in this case explain very plainly why, and you find a way to take yet another shot.

I believe not too long ago you relied with simply - futile. And again, I completely agree.
And yet you managed to type every word in the above post correctly.

It only took about 4 attempts to get you to answer the question, although you still referred to the posts of others or past posts. But I'll give you credit for answering. In the past, you have made bold statements that were immediately refuted with evidence and you just...disappeared.

Look, I'll give you a little advice from a Legend to a Limited Edition. You have to develop a thicker skin if you're going to hang around here. I've observed some of the exchanges you've had with other posters in which you've done the same thing...simply "taken your ball & gone home," so to speak when the heat was on.

I recall a poster who called an entire denomination of people...men, women, and children...racists and abusers of women. And you complain about "snark?"

To your credit, you've done better. Less personalized insults (certainly no more & probably less) than some others, and even the general digs usually are opinion-based and not factually in error. But you shouldn't expect to call the posts of others "BS," "stupid," "games," etc. and then get all snippy when someone points out a factual error you have made. Or go ahead, but don't use it as an excuse to duck a pertinent question.



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Old 01-25-16, 03:05 PM   #112
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Here's a simple question for you: Do you support imposing legal limits upon abortion at certain stages of pregnancy?

Surely it's not going to take too much of your time and be too bothersome to answer with a simple "Yes" or "No."
I would support legal limits as well. The problem is deciding upon when "personhood" actually begins. I saw someone mention 24 weeks, and I could probably get behind that, if the majority of scientists agreed on it.

But then you have to look at the reasons people would want an abortion after that time:
1) Can't afford it -- government subsidies could help
2) Can't get to a clinic that performs abortions -- we need more abortion clinics, especially out in rural areas. Or mandated payed time off, so someone could travel the distance necessary to get one
3) Too damn fat, didn't know was pregnant until too late --- not sure how we can fix this. Really fat people should be seeing their doctors more often, I guess
4) Medical emergency reasons -- I think most people would agree that there needs to be an exception for this
5) Too stupid/wishy washy to decide before 24 weeks -- dunno how we could solve this one either. I think these people should just be out of luck, and have to carry the baby and then put it up for adoption
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Old 01-25-16, 03:06 PM   #113
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

When people are charged with killing "two people" when a pregnant women is killed, does the court have a set age of the fetus to charge someone with double homicide? Or does that age vary court to court or state to state?
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Old 01-25-16, 03:16 PM   #114
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

Personally, I agree with just about everything movielib has said about abortion. Brain birth is a very good metric to use as the start of human life (as opposed to simply the life of an organism that may become human), as brain death is currently our definition of the ending of a human life. Additionally it has the benefit of giving a woman a good amount of time to decide in what direction she would like to go.

I would also have no problems with legislation making abortion illegal after the 24th week, barring serious health concerns. I do have major problems with legislation designed to make all abortions illegal.
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Old 01-25-16, 03:22 PM   #115
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
in the past, you have made bold statements that were immediately refuted with evidence and you just...disappeared.

I've observed some of the exchanges you've had with other posters in which you've done the same thing...simply "taken your ball & gone home,"
I take it, that given this supposed gotcha directed towards me, that you have never failed to make it back to a thread after posting a response?

If there is such concern that a question was not answered, a sincerely worded PM would probably do the trick. But that could get time consuming if done for every post/poster given how often I have seen people not get back to a thread in a timely fashion. I have only bothered to send PM's on a handful of occasions when It was something I was really hoping for an answer to. Never doing something as ridiculous as accusing them of disappearing or taking their ball home.

Quote:
although you still referred to the posts of others or past posts.
Since when is that a problem? If you're going to use that against me, at least be consistent given how many times you have done it yourself and the countless others that do it on a regular basis.

Quote:
I recall a poster who called an entire denomination of people...men, women, and children...racists and abusers of women. And you complain about "snark?"
I suspect they didn't care if the post was ignored. Otherwise they would have left out the snark and other condescending BS that often litters posts in this forum.

Last edited by hdnmickey; 01-25-16 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 01-25-16, 03:31 PM   #116
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

I hope this thread gets aborted long before it makes it to 24 weeks.
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Old 01-25-16, 03:36 PM   #117
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I hope this thread gets aborted long before it makes it to 24 weeks.


Or at least just have one abortion thread, one gay marriage thread, one...
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Old 01-25-16, 03:57 PM   #118
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

It's already headed for stillbirth
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Old 01-25-16, 06:09 PM   #119
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

http://news.yahoo.com/planned-parent...224615990.html

Planned Parenthood cleared by Texas jury over videos, activists indicted
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Old 01-25-16, 06:27 PM   #120
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
I hope this thread gets aborted long before it makes it to 24 weeks.
And after that time...?

Since you're choosing to post in an "abortion" thread, what's your stance on "choice" regarding abortion?

Do you support any amount of time limitations during which abortion should be legally performed?
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Old 01-25-16, 06:28 PM   #121
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by cungar View Post
It's already headed for stillbirth

Since you're choosing to post in an "abortion" thread, what's your stance on "choice" regarding abortion?

Do you support any amount of time limitations during which abortion should be legally performed?
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Old 01-25-16, 06:35 PM   #122
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Since you're choosing to post in an "abortion" thread, what's your stance on "choice" regarding abortion?

Do you support any amount of time limitations during which abortion should be legally performed?
Sorry, not interested in jumping on your merry go round. Have fun though.
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Old 01-25-16, 06:42 PM   #123
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Since you're choosing to post in an "abortion" thread, what's your stance on "choice" regarding abortion?

Do you support any amount of time limitations during which abortion should be legally performed?
Why is "choice" always parenthetical with you? It's a choice - do you choose to have an abortion or not? It's really not hard to understand what it means.
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Old 01-25-16, 07:11 PM   #124
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Why is "choice" always parenthetical with you? It's a choice - do you choose to have an abortion or not? It's really not hard to understand what it means.
The quotation marks are indicative of exactly what you describe in full detail. It is a comment on the use of "choice" as a euphemism (which is common parlance for activists and politicians who would prefer to avoid using the word "abortion").

But since you brought it up, it might be interesting to ask those who favor restrictions on abortions how they view the word choice...as in, after the time limits they favor, should such a choice be allowed?

Where do you stand on that issue? Should the choice to abort be absolute with no limitations? If so, how do you respond to the fact that abortion is legal up until the ___ fully emerges from the womb? If not, how do you respond to those who would apply limitations?
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Old 01-25-16, 07:14 PM   #125
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Re: 2016 One and Only Abortion Thread

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Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Sorry, not interested in jumping on your merry go round. Have fun though.
Then what is your interest in posting in these threads?

You certainly post your share. It would seem that you might wish to offer a substantive post about an issue that has deeply divided Americans for the past 43 years with no end in sight...an issue that still figures heavily in POTUS candidate debates for both main parties along with others.

If not, I can offer you some tips on the use of hyphens and commas.

Just as a helpful reminder: Here's the sum total of your valuable contributions to the discussion in this thread thus far:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Hey this time it's all going to be resolved and everyone's going to agree with creekdipper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cungar View Post
It's already headed for stillbirth
Quote:
Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Sorry, not interested in jumping on your merry go round. Have fun though.

Last edited by creekdipper; 01-25-16 at 07:26 PM.
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