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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 05-14-17, 01:05 PM   #751
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread



In a statement Joseph Castro, president of California State University, Fresno, said the school's policy on free speech is clear.

"Free speech on campus is not limited to a 'free speech zone' or any other narrowly defined area," he said. "Those disagreeing with the students' message have a right to their own speech, but they do not have the right to erase or stifle someone else's speech under the guise of their own right to free speech."
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Old 05-14-17, 01:37 PM   #752
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

My thought: free expression discourse (or activism) on college campuses is good to help kickstart young adults' thought processes. Similar to how you're probably never going to use Algebra in real life, but it encourages critical thinking.

I don't have a problem with it's existence. But I take as much from that video's discourse, as I take from watching a dog chase its tail. I can't think of a single similar 'college activism' video that left me enlightened. I don't learn anything from someone who chalks out pro-life messages on a sidewalk.
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Old 05-14-17, 02:23 PM   #753
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
I don't have a problem with it's existence. But I take as much from that video's discourse, as I take from watching a dog chase its tail. I can't think of a single similar 'college activism' video that left me enlightened. I don't learn anything from someone who chalks out pro-life messages on a sidewalk.
It appears the students will be "enlightening" the professor.

They are suing over the literal erasure of free speech.

"The crux of this case is a very simple message. Public university professors should be encouraging free speech," said the lead attorney "not erasing it from existence. You will be held accountable."
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Old 05-14-17, 02:45 PM   #754
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Anything to pass the time, I suppose. Shame those kids aren't off learning a skill. The world needs more people who know what they're doing. Less rhetorical college activism and more doctors, mechanics, tradesmen, etc.
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Old 05-27-17, 01:22 PM   #755
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Professor objects to no white people on campus demand

Bret Weinstein - I’m a deeply progressive person. I’m troubled by what this implies about the current state of the left.”



Students are demanding the firing of the professor who objected to asking whites to leave campus.
Here's the email:

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Old 05-28-17, 10:56 AM   #756
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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In a statement Joseph Castro, president of California State University, Fresno, said the school's policy on free speech is clear.

"Free speech on campus is not limited to a 'free speech zone' or any other narrowly defined area," he said. "Those disagreeing with the students' message have a right to their own speech, but they do not have the right to erase or stifle someone else's speech under the guise of their own right to free speech."
This video is such a bummer. I've got no problem with abortion, but I'm certainly not on that guy's side. What a jerk. He doesn't look like faculty, he looks like a d-bag in an NFL tshirt. And he's going out of his way to be mean to students, and he's encouraging other students to be mean to one another. You've got Roe v Wade on your side and this is how you chose to treat the opposition?

And to top it all off he's embarrassingly wrong. Free speech is not confined to some "zone".
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Old 06-13-17, 06:14 AM   #757
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

This happened at a high school, but this seems to be a more appropriate place to put it than the "Presidency" or "media bias" threads. It's gotten some attention on various news sites; evidently, a yearbook adviser had pro-Trump messages removed from student photos (clothing) and quotations. The adviser has been suspended while the incident is being investigated; the superintendent says that there is no policy disallowing political speech in yearbook entries, and other students' quotes and advocacy were allowed.

Some of the parents were pretty upset; one is demanding that the yearbooks be reprinted at the school's expense.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/teacher-s...163214956.html

Some schools have yearbook rules that eliminate the photo problem (no slogans or ads permitted on clothing), but that wouldn't address the quotations.
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Old 06-13-17, 10:43 AM   #758
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Let the little fascist larva quote Trump. Twenty years from now no one will want to be associated with the Trumpenfuehrer, and If any of them ever get famous, the yearbooks will surface and ruin them. It'll be beautiful.
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Old 06-13-17, 12:27 PM   #759
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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Let the little fascist larva quote Trump. Twenty years from now no one will want to be associated with the Trumpenfuehrer, and If any of them ever get famous, the yearbooks will surface and ruin them. It'll be beautiful.
Wow, how mindblowingly tolerant.
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Old 06-13-17, 12:32 PM   #760
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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Wow, how mindblowingly tolerant.
I mean ... yeah, it is. He's tolerating these kids who think their support of Trump is a badge of honor. He's predicting they'll regret it and delighting in that prediction, but saying it's their mistake to make. Seems pretty tolerant to me. Why do you disagree (assuming I'm reading your sarcasm accurately)?
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Old 06-13-17, 04:02 PM   #761
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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I mean ... yeah, it is. He's tolerating these kids who think their support of Trump is a badge of honor. He's predicting they'll regret it and delighting in that prediction, but saying it's their mistake to make. Seems pretty tolerant to me. Why do you disagree (assuming I'm reading your sarcasm accurately)?
He's taking the stance of high school students...or, as he calls them, "little fascist larva"...and "delighting" in the idea that their high school mistake will ruin their future careers.

He could have said that he hoped that civil discourse and reasoned debate would convince them of the errors of their ways and that they would be converted to his worldview. He could have said that their immaturity and lack of world experience might be overcome later. He could have said that he hoped they would become allies for their sake and his.

His statement makes it appear that he would rather see them punished in later adult life for a mistake they make now.

If that's what you call "tolerance," it seems to be a pretty cruel version of it.

I suppose that it does appear more tolerant than rounding them up and sending them to re-education camps reciting from a little red book, if we're being relative about things.
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Old 06-13-17, 04:37 PM   #762
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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Let the little fascist larva quote Trump. Twenty years from now no one will want to be associated with the Trumpenfuehrer, and If any of them ever get famous, the yearbooks will surface and ruin them. It'll be beautiful.
That's Trump mentality. The other side deserves a "you're fired" because they dare to disagree. The fact that you don't see this, as Yoda would say, is why you fail.
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Old 06-14-17, 07:29 AM   #763
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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Old 06-14-17, 10:23 AM   #764
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
I mean ... yeah, it is. He's tolerating these kids who think their support of Trump is a badge of honor. He's predicting they'll regret it and delighting in that prediction, but saying it's their mistake to make. Seems pretty tolerant to me. Why do you disagree (assuming I'm reading your sarcasm accurately)?
Let's flip it around... I call a bunch of gay men "flaming homos". You call me intolerant. I counter by saying that I'm tolerating a bunch of homosexuals who think their gayness is a badge of honor. I'm predicting they'll regret their flamboyance, delighting in that prediction, but saying it is their mistake to make. Still sound tolerant to you? Doesn't to me, in either instance.
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Old 06-14-17, 10:40 AM   #765
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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I suppose that it does appear more tolerant than rounding them up and sending them to re-education camps reciting from a little red book, if we're being relative about things.
Why are we talking about Mike Pence now?
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Old 06-14-17, 10:45 AM   #766
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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Let's flip it around... I call a bunch of gay men "flaming homos". You call me intolerant. I counter by saying that I'm tolerating a bunch of homosexuals who think their gayness is a badge of honor. I'm predicting they'll regret their flamboyance, delighting in that prediction, but saying it is their mistake to make. Still sound tolerant to you? Doesn't to me, in either instance.
Yeah and maybe one day they'll be fired for being gay. That would be rad.
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Old 06-14-17, 10:47 AM   #767
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
Let's flip it around... I call a bunch of gay men "flaming homos". You call me intolerant. I counter by saying that I'm tolerating a bunch of homosexuals who think their gayness is a badge of honor. I'm predicting they'll regret their flamboyance, delighting in that prediction, but saying it is their mistake to make. Still sound tolerant to you? Doesn't to me, in either instance.
You make a good point. I suppose that tolerance is treated differently when it comes to political views as compared to more social aspects of identity (race, sexuality, national origin, etc.) -- perhaps because one can disagree with a view, but one can't really disagree with an identity? But you've given me something to think about.
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Old 06-14-17, 11:40 AM   #768
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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You make a good point. I suppose that tolerance is treated differently when it comes to political views as compared to more social aspects of identity (race, sexuality, national origin, etc.) -- perhaps because one can disagree with a view, but one can't really disagree with an identity? But you've given me something to think about.
Thanks, I truly appreciate that response.
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Old 06-14-17, 01:56 PM   #769
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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Old 07-01-17, 08:23 AM   #770
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Michigan College Arrests Kids for Handing Out Constitutions, Whines About Being ‘Vilified’ When Students Sue

Young Americans for Liberty (YAL) members were passing out pocket-sized copies of the U.S. Constitution to fellow students at Kellogg Community College (KCC) in Michigan when college officials approached them and ordered them to stop. When the members refused—arguing that the First Amendment protected their actions—they were arrested for violating the school's policies.

The charges were dropped 10 days later, but KCC students and YAL members Michelle Gregoire and Brandon Withers, along with the rest of the KCC YAL chapter, sued the community college, the Board of Trustees, and a few other administrators for violating their First Amendment rights.

Now the administration is claiming that they are the real victims and have been unfairly vilified by the YAL lawsuit.

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Old 07-01-17, 09:22 AM   #771
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Not surprisingly, the incident is more complicated than that.

Quote:
Eric Greene, spokesman for KCC, today issued the following statement regarding the case:

“Our campus guests could have resolved their dispute with KCC in a matter of minutes on Sept. 20 and carried on their solicitation activities that same afternoon if they had simply filled out basic paperwork and moved out of the pedestrian walkway where students were trying to get to class. Responding to a complaint from a pedestrian, KCC personnel politely and repeatedly asked the individuals soliciting to comply with College policy or risk being arrested on trespassing charges.

“This case is not about free speech or viewpoint discrimination. We have felt from day one of this unnecessary lawsuit that the plaintiffs’ claims are without merit and that the College’s Solicitation Policy is constitutional and appropriate in its scope. KCC’s Solicitation Policy ensures that the time, place and manner of solicitation activities – regardless of the content of those activities – do not impede or interfere with the learning environment or College business.

“Similar policies exist at colleges, statehouses, city halls, courthouses, military memorials and other public venues across the United States. KCC’s policy, which is neither unconstitutional nor vague, has been enforced accurately and consistently over the years involving groups as varied as military recruiters and beauty product sales people to politicians running for office and members of white supremacy organizations. We don’t regulate the content of anyone’s solicitation materials, but we do govern the time, place and manner of the activities in order to ensure the safety of all students, employees and guests on our campuses.

“Despite repeated public statements that the College does not take into consideration the content of speech or solicitation when granting access to campus, the YAL and its supporters have vilified the College by spreading false information about why individuals were arrested on Sept. 20 and by suggesting that KCC does not value the U.S. Constitution or the free speech rights of its students. These accusations couldn’t be further from the truth.

“In fact, as a marketplace of ideas and thought, KCC – in policy and in practice – values free speech and the Constitutional rights of all people. We teach courses on the U.S. Constitution; we encourage healthy debate in multiple forms; and we dedicate an entire day every year to Constitution-related education and activities – including handing out free copies of the Constitution to passersby – during our annual Constitution Day celebration.

“The College takes seriously any allegation that an individual’s freedom of expression has been infringed and we have carefully reviewed our Solicitation Policy and concluded that we have been and continue to be in compliance with all applicable laws.

“KCC has retained legal counsel and will continue to address the complaint thoroughly in the United States District Court, Western District of Michigan.”
http://daily.kellogg.edu/2017/06/22/...tions-lawsuit/

That doesn't sound whiney to me. The lawsuit says that the permitting process is an unconstitutional restriction on free speech. I disagree.
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Old 07-01-17, 09:32 AM   #772
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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Originally Posted by Shoveler View Post
Let's flip it around... I call a bunch of gay men "flaming homos". You call me intolerant. I counter by saying that I'm tolerating a bunch of homosexuals who think their gayness is a badge of honor. I'm predicting they'll regret their flamboyance, delighting in that prediction, but saying it is their mistake to make. Still sound tolerant to you? Doesn't to me, in either instance.
There's a difference between being gay and being fascist. Supporting fascism causes real world harm. Consensual butt sex doesn't. Don't conflate the two.

If you support Trump, you are hurting people. Period. When you have actual fascists in politics, it stops being about freedom of speech and becomes a question of basic humanity.
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Old 07-01-17, 05:48 PM   #773
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
There's a difference between being gay and being fascist. Supporting fascism causes real world harm. Consensual butt sex doesn't. Don't conflate the two.

If you support Trump, you are hurting people. Period. When you have actual fascists in politics, it stops being about freedom of speech and becomes a question of basic humanity.
Yeah, but all this stems from what you said earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Let the little fascist larva quote Trump. Twenty years from now no one will want to be associated with the Trumpenfuehrer, and If any of them ever get famous, the yearbooks will surface and ruin them. It'll be beautiful.
Kids in high school do stupid shit. For all you know they'll regret it once they get older, just like most of us regret the things we do when we're younger. But you're saying that it'll be "beautiful" that wearing a stupid shirt in a yearbook photo will ruin them in the future.
We're talking about kids here, not adults.
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Old 07-02-17, 02:39 AM   #774
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

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Yeah, but all this stems from what you said earlier:


Kids in high school do stupid shit. For all you know they'll regret it once they get older, just like most of us regret the things we do when we're younger. But you're saying that it'll be "beautiful" that wearing a stupid shirt in a yearbook photo will ruin them in the future.
So if it came out that some leading member of your community -- the mayor, a judge, a congresscritter -- had attended Little Rock High School at the time of integration, and had been one of the kids standing on the steps yelling the N-word as the National Guard led the black students into the school, you'd say, "No big deal. He was just a kid"? I wouldn't.

WIth any luck, in ten years time having worn a MAGA shirt or other Trump paraphernalia will be seen as equivalent to sporting a swastika, and anyone who did it will face major social repercussions for the rest of their lives. Age is no excuse -- if you've reached high school, you should know fascism is evil. Millions of their peers have realized it.

Quote:
We're talking about kids here, not adults.
Oh, so teenagers are kids now? I thought they were young men. Or is that only the black ones who get shot by cops?
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Old 07-02-17, 11:26 AM   #775
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Re: The War for Free Expression at College: The One & Only Megathread

You have entered The Twilight Zone.

Dude, you are living the Trump attitude and you don't even see it. You are wishing cruel repercussions be meted out to those you oppose. It's really ugly. Hating the president has made you just like him.
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