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You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

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You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Old 03-06-19, 06:42 AM
  #1326  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
Lawn darts are based on ancient weapons, were one of the most popular lawn games of the time and were responsible for over six thousand injuries and multiple deaths. I put one into my grandparents’ siding when I was a kid.

They were wildly unsafe and rightfully banned.
I broke a window with a baseball. We had lawn jarts as a kid, grade school, and the idea of throwing them at or near somebody never occurred to us. We knew enough to stand out of the way. We had real bows and arrows and it never occurred to us to shoot at each other. We had BB guns and never shot at each other. We did have rock fights though.
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Old 03-06-19, 07:00 AM
  #1327  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
NY is instituting a statewide ruling that is already in place in many localities. Safe storage. Guns must be locked up when children are present.

In a nutshell: Keeping them locked up around kids is a common sense thing to do and should have an impact on small children and accidents.

Where they've run into trouble in the past is the wording over keeping guns and ammo in separate locations. It renders the firearm impractical for self defense which has been found in violation of the 2nd amendment. They must have fixed the wording although the article doesn't go into detail.

I don't think it would have any impact on school or teenage shootings. I'm sure any teenager will know where the keys are. In some cases the kids killed the adults first then went to school or work.

Spoiler:
ALBANY - Gun owners in New York with children in their homes may have to take steps to keep their weapons in safe-storage units. ❚ The state Legislature on Monday passed a bill that aims to prevent kids from having access to guns in their homes, making it a potential criminal charge if the weapons are not safely stored. ❚ “Despite all our progress, it is still simply too easy for guns to fall into the wrong hands,” Assemblywoman Amy Paulin, D-Scarsdale, Westchester County, the bill’s sponsor, said in a statement. ❚ The bill comes after the Democrat-controlled Legislature in January passed a package of gun-control laws, its first since the controversial SAFE Act in 2013.


USA TODAY NETWORK ILLUSTRATION BY ERIN CRABB / GETTY IMAGES/ ISTOCKPHOTO
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What would the law do?

The measure would apply to gun owners with children younger than 16 residing in the home.

They would have to securely lock any “rifle, shotgun or firearm in an appropriate safe storage depository” if it is out of their immediate possession or render it incapable of being fired with a gun-locking device.

Failure to do so comes with a potential charge of a first-degree class A misdemeanor, which can carry a punishment of one year in jail or three years probation, as well as up to a $1,000 fine.

The bill, if signed into law by Gov. Andrew Cuomo, would also require individuals to safely store their guns when children are present in their homes, even if the kids do not live there.

It also includes a provision to require notices about the law to be posted where gun licenses are issued and at gun stores.

Lawmakers said federal law currently requires safe storage of a gun only if someone in the home is prohibited from owning a gun and doesn’t address potential access by children.Debating the gun bill

Republicans criticized the bill, saying it would make it difficult for gun owners to use their weapons if their homes are being attacked.

They said homeowners would have to go to different places to get their guns and ammunition. They also claimed the bill is unconstitutional.

“The Second Amendment is about self-defense of your person and property,” Sen. Robert Ortt, R-North Tonawanda, Niagara County, said on the Senate floor.

“And this bill, I think, quite clearly impedes on somebody’s ability to act in their own self defense and use a firearm for that purpose.”

The bill doesn’t apply to people younger than 16 who have a hunting license and have a rifle or shotgun.

Supporters said the law would protect children from getting access to guns and potentially shooting themselves or someone else.

The bill was initially included in the package of bills passed in January, but was ultimately removed because the language was still being crafted, lawmakers said.
The bill points to a 2017 study from the American Academy of Pediatrics that found between 2012 and 2014 on average nearly 1,300 children die and 5,790 are treated for gunshot wounds each year, finding 6 percent of those were unintentional deaths.

Advocates said Westchester County, as well as large upstate cities, including New York City, Rochester and Albany all have safe-storage laws, as well as 27 states.

The SAFE Act in 2013 required safe storage of firearms in households where individuals have been convicted of a crime, involuntarily committed or are subject to an order of protection.

A previous law required all guns sold in New York to have a gun lock.

Sen. Peter Harckham, D-South Salem, Westchester County, pointed to the recent accidental shooting death of a 17-year-old student in his district as a reason why the law is needed.

“This is about commonsense safety,” he said on the Senate floor.
That is excellent news. It will also have an impact on things like suicide and domestic violence (most likely). Should also reduce guns being stolen.

This is is something that needs to happen Nationally.

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Old 03-06-19, 07:20 AM
  #1328  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Then why aren't you advocating the banning of swords.
Because swords aren’t sold as party games?
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Old 03-06-19, 07:51 AM
  #1329  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Draven View Post


Because swords aren’t sold as party games?
As if a parent isn't around when a kid uses a sword? Or a parent even lets their kids play with one but overlooks the kid stabbing another accidentally?

You think marketing with big flashy labels prevents deaths? Why not just sell the darts behind the counter? Why the ban. Again...common sense.

Banning darts is a prime example of banning something just for political purposes.
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Old 03-06-19, 07:59 AM
  #1330  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Over 6000 people were injured by lawn darts. Banning them was a safety issue. Not everything is political.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:12 AM
  #1331  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

I must have missed the news about all those sword deaths.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:15 AM
  #1332  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Is there an argument going on about whether or not banning fucking lawn darts was a political move? Only this forum, man
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Old 03-06-19, 08:55 AM
  #1333  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Trolls gotta troll, and posters gotta respond to trolls even though they should know by now it will never be productive.
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Old 03-06-19, 09:01 AM
  #1334  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

"trolls" should be required to back up their comments rather than ditching a thread for a day or two after making a crazy statement, then coming back when the topic shifts to something new to troll about.
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Old 03-06-19, 04:23 PM
  #1335  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
That is excellent news. It will also have an impact on things like suicide and domestic violence (most likely). Should also reduce guns being stolen.

This is is something that needs to happen Nationally.
The big delay was wording on what constituted storage. At one point if it was on my hip it was still in storage. They must have cleared up the language but I haven't seen a new draft yet.
Accidents 100%. Any responsible gun owner should be doing everything to keep guns away from kids and to teach safe handling as they get older. No argument from me on keeping them locked where kids are concerned
Possibly could impact suicide. Suicide by firearm is the second cause of death behind suffocation (hanging) then comes poisoning and falling (or jumping). Most suicides are by people old enough to know where the key is. The hope is the extra time makes them rethink their decision.
Domestic violence. In NY domestic abusers legal guns are taken away already. It would help prevent the sudden unexpected escalation of violence into a shooting. On the other hand it would prevent someone from getting the gun to protect mom from drunk again dad. Not saying it won't help. All I can say is that DV shooting incidents I've been at, the guns were already illegal. The trashy people would not have had them locked anyway. Too many what-if's in these volatile circumstances. Most DV deaths are a slow escalation into a more and more violent encounter. Truthfully, in MOST cases, by the time someone is killed, somewhere in the back of the person's mind they have prepared for the eventuality. If she bitches at me again...., if he tries that again..... They would make sure it was available.
Don't think it will impact stolen guns very much if at all. Big gun safes bolted to the floor will help, but in general gun safes are a favorite target since the thieves know there must be some good value in there. Trigger locks do prevent accidents, however never stops thieves. Two minutes on youtube and you can see how to open any trigger or gun lock.
youtube defeat trigger lock
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Old 03-06-19, 04:44 PM
  #1336  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Well to me, it’s a no brained.

Its one of of the regulations put in place in Australia. And the success of their gun regulations is well documented.

Having guns locked up will reduce those “sudden and extreme escalations” we see. Yes, someone thinking about suicide for a long time it might not matter. But what about the teenager bullied at school that day? The wife who found out her husband was cheating? Even the person who has the combination or key taking the extra steps might give the time needed to rethink.

As for theft, come on! We all know the general rules, the theif goes for the easy target. That which is quick. If somoneone wants to break into your home they will do it. Regardless of locks, alarm, dogs, security, whatever. But most thieves would skip the “well protected” home, for the easy target. It would be the same for items in the home. Quick and easy items you can “smash and grab” or a locked safe that will take time and unsure what is inside?

This is is one of my main issues. By and large we treat guns like any “widget”. Just another random item in the home. But a gun should be treated with respect. It should be purposefully and with clear head that anyone has access too.
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Old 03-06-19, 05:03 PM
  #1337  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
As for theft, come on! We all know the general rules, the theif goes for the easy target. That which is quick. If somoneone wants to break into your home they will do it. Regardless of locks, alarm, dogs, security, whatever. But most thieves would skip the “well protected” home, for the easy target. It would be the same for items in the home. Quick and easy items you can “smash and grab” or a locked safe that will take time and unsure what is inside?
A thief absolutely will bypass a well protected home and hit an easier target. We are talking about gun locks. Having a trigger lock will make zero difference to the thief since they are easily defeated. As far as safes are concerned, people know exactly what is in a gun safe. Guns and other valuables. That's why they bought the safe. Big ass ones bolted to the floor present a hard target. You might as well paint a target on the smaller ones. Thieves target houses with them because they know more often than not there is something good in there. If a guy's house with a gun safe gets broken into, buy or upgrade your alarm because they are coming back with friends for the safe.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:29 PM
  #1338  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Agree on the trigger locks in regards to theft. I missed that you brought that up.

As for safes, again, I’ll stand by my statement. Gun on the night stand or heavy bulky safe? Jewelry sitting next to bathroom sink or in a large heavy safe?

I work in home insursnce claims, I can’t tell you how few claims I’ve seen involving safes. In fact the only one I can think of is when the homeowner had important papers in it. He was using it as a “fire box” more than for security. He was making claim for the safe, not the papers.
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Old 03-06-19, 08:42 PM
  #1339  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

I'm agreeing on the large heavy ones. Bolted down is best. Some are nothing more than a tin can but are still considered a "safe" and "locked up" under the law. They are basically like carrying a heavy suitcase. As I've said, I'm not a full-time LEO but I have been a Peace Officer and court deputy for 15 years. So I've seen my share. We've had a couple high profile thefts where the thieves targeted the safe. In one the guns were used in a drive-by shooting the following week. So if you are going to do a safe. Do a big mamma honkin one.
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Old 03-06-19, 10:11 PM
  #1340  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Red Hood View Post
Just when you think the GOP has hit the lowest of the low, the scrap even farther down

https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/st...49954589507584

Thanks Trump!
I just saw that the other day.
When I first saw the headline I thought it was an editorial about the New Hampshire Republicans and that the writer was using a figure of speech.
No they actually wore pearl necklaces.

Supposedly it wasn't to mock the gun control advocates there but given to them by the Women's Defense League of New Hampshire who are pro-gun.
link

You could still argue that it's taunting the gun control advocates.
The people from ​​​​​​Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America go there to testify speak to lawmakers about their concerns about gun violence and asking for stricter gun control measures, and these people do something like this. It's kind of like a visual sign saying, "we don't care what you say."
You'd think they'd want to at least APPEAR neutral or objective when hearing out their constituents.
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Old 03-07-19, 05:47 AM
  #1341  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Trolls gotta troll, and posters gotta respond to trolls even though they should know by now it will never be productive.
An opposing opinion...is not trolling. But it is a convenient term for some to push away differences opinion and lock-down discussion.

Suffice it to say, some disagree with my opinion. Ok. I disagree with the way guns are being dealt with.
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Old 03-07-19, 08:55 AM
  #1342  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

You're entitled to have whatever opinions you want, however ill-informed they may be. I just don't understand why people here think "Yeah, but what about SWORDS!?!?!!" necessitates a response.
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Old 03-07-19, 09:21 AM
  #1343  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
You're entitled to have whatever opinions you want, however ill-informed they may be. I just don't understand why people here think "Yeah, but what about SWORDS!?!?!!" necessitates a response.
It doesn't. It's just part of their repeated observable behavior of trying to twist the topic into something else without providing any input into the actual discussion.
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Old 03-07-19, 10:15 AM
  #1344  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
An opposing opinion...is not trolling. But it is a convenient term for some to push away differences opinion and lock-down discussion.

Suffice it to say, some disagree with my opinion. Ok. I disagree with the way guns are being dealt with.
An opposing opinion is not trolling. Posting factually incorrect information and then bailing on the thread when you're called out on it is trolling. (i.e., pretending as though you're an expert on SR-86 forms. The requirements for filling out those forms is not a matter of opinion.)
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Old 03-08-19, 11:10 AM
  #1345  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by GoVegan View Post
An opposing opinion is not trolling. Posting factually incorrect information and then bailing on the thread when you're called out on it is trolling. (i.e., pretending as though you're an expert on SR-86 forms. The requirements for filling out those forms is not a matter of opinion.)
Factually incorrect? How so?

You also don't know what my occupation is, nor do you know my experience. To assume....is to be purposely ignorant to further your own cause. I've been a part of local political campaigns, both Dem and Conservative, in the past.

I know what I'm talking about. But I also did not reference myself as an "expert".

That was YOUR assumption.

Again, where am I providing factually incorrect information. I will await your reply.
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Old 03-08-19, 11:17 AM
  #1346  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
You're entitled to have whatever opinions you want, however ill-informed they may be. I just don't understand why people here think "Yeah, but what about SWORDS!?!?!!" necessitates a response.
I find it interesting that swords, as dangerous as they are, are being conveniently discounted and only guns and darts are the real danger.
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Old 03-08-19, 11:28 AM
  #1347  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Yes, it's certainly tragic that our lawmakers are doing nothing to save the ones of people being killed by swords every year.
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Old 03-08-19, 11:32 AM
  #1348  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I find it interesting that swords, as dangerous as they are, are being conveniently discounted and only guns and darts are the real danger.
Are swords being sold as backyard family games? Are people regularly using swords to kill large groups of people on a near-constant basis?

If not, then you know why they aren't being discussed at the same time.
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Old 03-08-19, 11:35 AM
  #1349  
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Re: You say sword control i say sword rights, let's slash the whole thing off

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Yes, it's certainly tragic that our lawmakers are doing nothing to save the ones of people being killed by swords every year.
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Old 03-08-19, 01:00 PM
  #1350  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

He might as well have brought up the infamous McDonalds Coffee issue and noted we aren’t doing anything it to ban that dangerous coffee. Has as much relevance.
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