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You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

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You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Old 11-27-18, 07:57 AM
  #1226  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
I donít think I am. I think arming teachers and administrators is moronic and should not be allowed. Regardless of training. If my kids were still of that age Iíd never let them attend a school where teachers are armed. Just like I wouldnít let them have sleep overs at friends whose parents had guns.

There is about a 100x more bad that can happen than good. As noted itís a distraction to deflect from anything that could actually help.
I don't like teachers. Even if they are trained, I don't want them around my kid.

Kinda understand how come across to some?

Your logic about trained, responsible people who volunteer to help...is interesting.

I think you have a paranoia and irrational fear of guns (maybe even like those Anti-Vax people?). More than likey, you stand next to them at a grocery store, having a casual conversation and wouldn't be the wiser.
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Old 11-27-18, 09:44 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by JimRochester View Post
I don't have a problem with this.
What?? that's crazy town. If you give someone your facebook password, they not only can read everything you post on your wall, but all your private facebook messages you've ever sent. That's WAY over the line, IMHO.

Maybe if facebook made a way for them to JUST see your wall, then I'd be ok with that.
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Old 11-27-18, 10:35 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Most of this deadly freaks are interacting on networks and forums that are out there to host freaky shit. They aren’t using Facebook and google.
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Old 11-27-18, 10:55 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

In all fairness, most of them don't even want to kill lots of people, they just snap one day.
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Old 11-27-18, 11:08 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I don't like teachers. Even if they are trained, I don't want them around my kid.

Kinda understand how come across to some?

Your logic about trained, responsible people who volunteer to help...is interesting.

I think you have a paranoia and irrational fear of guns (maybe even like those Anti-Vax people?). More than likey, you stand next to them at a grocery store, having a casual conversation and wouldn't be the wiser.
No...I love teachers. I love them for teaching. Not for being responsible for killing the kids they are to teach and form relationships with.

And itís not irrational. Study after study show having guns around makes the area less safe.

Itís gun lovers that are being irrational. Trying to arm teachers with no evidence it would work. And not willing to study how it could harm. Itís gun lovers that irrationally cling to the myth/urban legend of a ďgood guy with a gunĒ when studies show it simply not to be true.

And Iím personally insulted by your purposeful twisting of what I said. Teachers should be paid double or more their currently salary. They are under appreciated for the role they play in society. But arming them is moronic. They are there to teach. They are not there to be school MPís or Police.
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Old 11-27-18, 12:11 PM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Most of this deadly freaks are interacting on networks and forums that are out there to host freaky shit. They arenít using Facebook and google.
Citation? The last shooter that used that other social network made that network notable because it was unusual.
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Old 11-27-18, 01:19 PM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

I don’t know, but you know what I’m talking about. These incel guys and neonazi guys are all on these oddball forums.
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Old 11-29-18, 06:53 PM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Cocked and unlocked.

Man accidentally shoots himself in groin inside Arizona Walmart

https://kdvr.com/2018/11/29/man-acci...izona-walmart/
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Old 11-30-18, 06:47 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Cocked and unlocked.

Man accidentally shoots himself in groin inside Arizona Walmart

https://kdvr.com/2018/11/29/man-acci...izona-walmart/
Just another good guy with a gun...nothing to see here.
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Old 11-30-18, 07:04 AM
  #1235  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Cocked and unlocked.

Man accidentally shoots himself in groin inside Arizona Walmart

https://kdvr.com/2018/11/29/man-acci...izona-walmart/
Just another good eunuch with a gun...nothing to see here.
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Old 11-30-18, 07:26 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

He is expected to be charged with unlawful discharge of a firearm
Probably the cleanest type of discharge in Walmart.
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Old 12-01-18, 06:46 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

I have reconsidered my position. A usually liberal columnist has spoken out against the social media background check so Although any public posting should be taken into consideration; hate speech, threats etc. are not protected speech, the extent they want to look goes too far.

Moments before he opened fire in a Pittsburgh synagogue in October, Robert Bowers posted his last in a long series of anti-Semitic messages on social media.
“HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society) likes to bring invaders in that kill our people. I can’t sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. Screw your optics. I’m going in,” he wrote.
Bowers had legally purchased over many years the four guns he used to kill 11 people at the Tree of Life Congregation Synagogue and six other firearms authorities found in his home.

Names of the victims in the mass shooting at Tree of Life Congregation Synagogue at a memorial outside of the synagogue in the Squirrel Hill neighborhood of Pittsburgh Monday, October 27, 2018. On Saturday Robert Bowers allegedly screamed anti-Semitic epithets, as he opened fire during a service at Tree of Life Congregation Synagogue law enforcement officials said. Eleven worshippers were killed and six other people were wounded Saturday. (Photo: Cara Owsley/The Enquirer)

Though boiling with hatred, Bowers didn’t fall into any category of person barred from gun ownership under federal law. He wasn’t a felon or a domestic abuser or dishonorably discharged from the military. He wasn’t declared mentally ill.
But it’s not hard to imagine how anyone in a position to grant Bowers the permits he may have needed to build his arsenal might have thought twice about doing so had the extent of his anti-Semitic screeds online been known.
That’s what a new bill in the state Senate seeks to do, by requiring anyone applying for a pistol permit or renewing one to consent to an investigation of their social media accounts and online search history by police.
More: Gun permit seekers would see social media searched under New York bill
Under the measure, police would be empowered to scour three years of an applicant’s social media activity on four websites or apps (Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and Snapchat) and a year’s worth of searches on Google, Yahoo and Bing.

Robert Gregory Bowers (Photo: AFP/Getty Images)

To ensure unfettered police access, the measure demands that applicants hand over their passwords and log-in information.
Police would be required to look for evidence the applicant searched for or used racist or discriminatory language, threatened the safety of another person, inquired about or alluded to an act of terrorism, and, finally, “any other issue deemed necessary by the investigating officer.”
The bill, introduced by state Sen. Kevin Parker, a Democrat from Brooklyn, is well-meaning in that it seeks to protect the unalienable right to life that the Founding Fathers held to be self-evident in the Declaration of Independence.
In aiming to ward off mass murder, however, the measure runs roughshod over the Constitution’s right of free speech under the First Amendment, and the rights to privacy and freedom from unreasonable searches guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment.

Of course, it conflicts with the Second Amendment’s right to bear arms, too. But I don’t care much about that, and neither do a lot of people who are sick and tired of mass shootings, street violence, and suicides by gun.
Sixty-one percent of Americans think there should be stricter gun laws and 21 percent want to see the Second Amendment repealed, according to an Economist/YouGov poll conducted earlier this year. The same survey found that nearly half of respondents, 46 percent, would be willing to modify the Second Amendment to make it easier to regulate guns.
I do care about any chiseling away at the rights to speak our minds and to privacy. (Ironically, social media enhances our ability to do the former while eroding the latter.)

With the exception of threatening another person’s safety, social media posts — even about the most heinous of topics — aren’t an indication that someone intends to go on a shooting spree.
While it’s illegal to discriminate against others based on race, gender, sexual orientation and the like, and criminal to commit crimes motivated by prejudice, it’s neither illegal nor criminal to be a bigot.
New York’s gun-permit application process is already rigorous. It takes months, involves police interviews with people who know the applicant, and has safeguards in place to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and people with a history of violence and mental illness.
One would hope police doing the vetting are already reviewing the public social media posts of applicants to glean some additional insight on them. Anyone with internet access can do that. Accessing passwords and private conversations, though, is something different.
That’s presumably why the bill doesn’t have a sponsor in the Assembly. New Yorkers Against Gun Violence won’t even commit to endorsing the bill, which was introduced two weeks ago.
The advocacy group is backing a far more effective measure to stop mass shootings, however, in what’s known as the Extreme Risk Protection Order (ERPO) bill.
The bill enables families, household members and police officers concerned that a person might harm himself or others to petition a court directly for an order temporarily restricting that person’s access to guns.
That bill passed the Assembly earlier this year but stalled in the Republican-controlled Senate. With any hope, that will change when Democrats gain control of the chamber in January.
Enabling law enforcement to intervene when gun owners or would-be gun owners are in crisis — as opposed to subjecting all of them to an unconstitutional dragnet without probable cause or due process — is a far superior way to stop the next Robert Bowers.
The big issue naturally is the difference between a private message to my friend and public posting on my home page. There is no expectation of privacy if my page is public.
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Old 12-01-18, 07:14 AM
  #1238  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Cocked and unlocked.

Man accidentally shoots himself in groin inside Arizona Walmart

https://kdvr.com/2018/11/29/man-acci...izona-walmart/
I'm changing my position on gun control. We need more guns to shoot off dumb people's dicks. I hope he got it right in the shaft.
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Old 12-13-18, 11:29 AM
  #1239  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Gun deaths in US reach highest level in nearly 40 years, CDC data reveals

"In 2017, nearly 109 people died every single day from gun violence.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/healt...cdc/index.html

#MAGA
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Old 12-13-18, 12:30 PM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Gun deaths in US reach highest level in nearly 40 years, CDC data reveals

"In 2017, nearly 109 people died every single day from gun violence.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/healt...cdc/index.html

#MAGA
Wait, the article states that 60% of gun deaths are suicides? That seems really high.

CNN replicated that analysis and found that 39,773 people died by guns in 2017.

CNN's analysis also showed that 23,854 people died from suicide by guns in 2017, the highest number in 18 years.
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Old 12-13-18, 12:32 PM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Gun deaths in US reach highest level in nearly 40 years, CDC data reveals

"In 2017, nearly 109 people died every single day from gun violence.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/13/healt...cdc/index.html

#MAGA
Queuing up the same ol' argument in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1:

Firearm deaths in the data include gun deaths by homicide and suicide, unintentional deaths, deaths in war or legal interventions, and deaths that are undetermined.


From the CNN article:

CNN's analysis also showed that 23,854 people died from suicide by guns in 2017
The suicide rate in the U.S. has been trending upward for more than a decade and in 2017 took an unusually large jump, up 1.2% (CDC numbers). Firearm suicides always account for a massive chunk of total suicides.

Keep in mind also that "gun homicides" != gun murders.

From what I can find, the total number of gun deaths (excluding suicides) only went up very slightly between 2016 and 2017. So, basically, the foundation for the CNN headline appears to be mostly due to the increase in suicides.
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Old 12-14-18, 11:44 AM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Hopefully this will tramp down the NRA's political shenanigans.

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Old 12-17-18, 08:52 PM
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
No...I love teachers. I love them for teaching. Not for being responsible for killing the kids they are to teach and form relationships with.

And itís not irrational. Study after study show having guns around makes the area less safe.

Itís gun lovers that are being irrational. Trying to arm teachers with no evidence it would work. And not willing to study how it could harm. Itís gun lovers that irrationally cling to the myth/urban legend of a ďgood guy with a gunĒ when studies show it simply not to be true.

And Iím personally insulted by your purposeful twisting of what I said. Teachers should be paid double or more their currently salary. They are under appreciated for the role they play in society. But arming them is moronic. They are there to teach. They are not there to be school MPís or Police.
Stoneman Douglas Commission Votes Overwhelmingly In Favor Of Arming Trained Teachers
The Stoneman Douglas Commission voted 13-1 on Wednesday to recommend that qualified teachers who volunteer to carry guns on campus be allowed to do so.
ďThe more people we have appropriately trained and appropriately equipped after their appropriately selected the safer the kids are because we have to get there in seconds,Ē said Commission Member Grady Judd, Sheriff of Polk County
From CBS Miami Link

This happened in the same school district as the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida.
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Old 12-17-18, 09:21 PM
  #1244  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Itís gun lovers that are being irrational. Trying to arm teachers with no evidence it would work. And not willing to study how it could harm. Itís gun lovers that irrationally cling to the myth/urban legend of a ďgood guy with a gunĒ when studies show it simply not to be true.
Missed this one the first time. Please elaborate on these studies.

And for the record, I also don't support the arming of teachers, but probably not for the same reasons that you don't.
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Old 12-17-18, 10:14 PM
  #1245  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by jfoobar View Post
Missed this one the first time. Please elaborate on these studies.

And for the record, I also don't support the arming of teachers, but probably not for the same reasons that you don't.
Well...itís been so debunked itís almost not worth posting. Itís like posting articles that vaccines dont cause autism. It seems to lead credence to the arguement where there is none (objectively).

https://abcnews.go.com/US/breaking-n...ry?id=53360480
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Old 12-17-18, 10:41 PM
  #1246  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
Well...itís been so debunked itís almost not worth posting. Itís like posting articles that vaccines dont cause autism. It seems to lead credence to the arguement where there is none (objectively).

https://abcnews.go.com/US/breaking-n...ry?id=53360480
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Old 12-18-18, 01:38 AM
  #1247  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by mspmms View Post
Stoneman Douglas Commission Votes Overwhelmingly In Favor Of Arming Trained Teachers
The Stoneman Douglas Commission voted 13-1 on Wednesday to recommend that qualified teachers who volunteer to carry guns on campus be allowed to do so.

From CBS Miami Link

This happened in the same school district as the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida.
And this is based on what evidence that it will help? Did you notice the lone decent?

ďĒBut Commissioner Max Schachter, whose son Alex died at the school, was the lone dissenting vote on the issue on the Commission.

ďI donít think teachers should be carrying guns,Ē Schachter said. ďI think they have enough on their plate. I think their priority is teaching, It just creates a host of more problems.ĒĒ

I know some schools are doing this. And they are doing so with no studies or evidence it would help more than it would harm.

https://nypost.com/2018/04/12/teache...n-in-bathroom/

An absent-minded science teacher at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School ó who volunteered to be trained to pack a pistol after the mass shooting there ó was busted for leaving his loaded gun in a public bathroom, according to reports.
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Old 12-18-18, 06:08 AM
  #1248  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Governor Cuomo who boasted the NY SAFE Act was the country's most stringent gun law, is back to the drawing board. He claimed that since the introduction of the SAFE Act, gun violence has increased. He now wants to ban bump stocks, lengthen background checks and introduce a red flag law.

Bump stocks are almost a moot point. The company that made them commercially was ceasing operation after Vegas and there has been no instance of one being used in a crime in NY that I can find.

The Red Flag law allows law enforcement to confiscate guns from people who pose a threat. A lot of these provisions are already on the books under the various mental hygiene laws. Providing there is sufficient follow up from law enforcement. The other problem is these laws can be poorly written and provide overly broad authority to police. (And I am involved in the criminal justice system.) This authority allows them to confiscate virtually any time for any reason they want citing this law with no due process or probable cause. The Constitution provides for benefits and due process so this law is being challenged in many areas.

Longer background checks. Not sure what he thinks they'll find in five days they couldn't find in three.

The reality is that in the scheme of gun violence, the vast, overwhelming majority are those from illegal guns. Certainly people who own a gun legally, at times do the wrong thing, or at times do what they perceive is the right thing but falls outside the boundaries of the law (ie. self defense). But the majority are those that fall outside legal channels, stolen, straw buyers, brought in illegally from other states.

As in all these discussions the common refrain from the pro gun group is that laws only work on people who follow laws. The anti-gun group refrain is that if a law did not achieve the desired result, it must not have been stringent enough. I can tell you that as a Peace Officer who has effected arrests and as a Court Deputy who deals with people in custody frequently, these guys freely tell me how easy it is to get a gun. Most can have one within hours of getting released. I've asked them about the source drying up with all the new gun laws. The response is always the same. My source may dry up, but theirs gets stronger. The only thing that changes is the cost goes up.
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Old 12-18-18, 07:16 AM
  #1249  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Wait...criminals BREAK LAWS?? Donít tell me water is still wet too!?
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Old 12-18-18, 07:29 AM
  #1250  
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Re: You say Gun control i say gun rights let's call the whole thing off discussion

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
And this is based on what evidence that it will help? Did you notice the lone decent?
Yes - I read that, and we get that you do not like guns, however you seem to be discounting the vote of Commissioner Ryan Petty, whose daughter Alaina also died in that shooting, he said he supports the idea of arming willing, trained teachers.

I can’t get out of my head the visual of those teachers huddled in those classrooms at MSD with no ability to protect themselves or those students.
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