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View Poll Results: What is more representative of a "WAR ON CHRISTIANITY"
telling a for-profit, open-to-the-public baker he cant' have a "no gays" policy
3
25.00%
the burning of black churches in South Carolina
9
75.00%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

War On Christianity

Old 07-02-15, 09:41 AM
  #101  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
That's a division and distinction that YOU'RE making.

And even with that, did the majority of the founding fathers self-identify as Christian or not?
Those fathers of democracy went well out of their way to remove references to God let alone Christianity out of their documents. It was purposeful and deliberate.
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Old 07-02-15, 09:44 AM
  #102  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Those fathers of democracy went well out of their way to remove references to God let alone Christianity out of their documents. It was purposeful and deliberate.
I largely agree with that. And that's my point--an overwhelmingly Christian country didn't want a Christian theocracy, and created a very different type of society.
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Old 07-02-15, 09:46 AM
  #103  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
And that sums up Christianity to me - an angry, hate-filled asshole trying to scare a little girl by yelling at her. And the 'War on Christianity' is a little girl, filled with love and compassion, who quietly stands up to Christian hate and abuse.
That sums up the worst of modern (American) Christianity, but for every one of those assholes, there are many people who are devoting their energy to volunteering at food banks or shelters or what have you.

And there's probably orders of magnitude more people who are just living average American lives, worrying about their spouses and kids and jobs and mortgages, only once a week -- or maybe just on Easter -- they go to a church and pray for an hour or two.
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Old 07-02-15, 09:55 AM
  #104  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
That sums up the worst of modern (American) Christianity, but for every one of those assholes, there are many people who are devoting their energy to volunteering at food banks or shelters or what have you.

And there's probably orders of magnitude more people who are just living average American lives, worrying about their spouses and kids and jobs and mortgages, only once a week -- or maybe just on Easter -- they go to a church and pray for an hour or two.
I guess that's the problem. While the little girl stood there and took all that hate-filled abuse, people kept walking by and "high-fiving" her. For all I or anyone else knows, many of those people could have been regular church-goers. But the symbol of Christianity in the story is the guy yelling at the little girl.
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Old 07-02-15, 09:55 AM
  #105  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
That sums up the worst of modern (American) Christianity, but for every one of those assholes, there are many people who are devoting their energy to volunteering at food banks or shelters or what have you.
So where are they when deranged assholes like the guy in the video are out there defining who they are? I agree, there are good christians out there, but fundamentalism like this is a cancer which will eventually destroy the church.
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Old 07-02-15, 09:57 AM
  #106  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
I largely agree with that. And that's my point--an overwhelmingly Christian country didn't want a Christian theocracy, and created a very different type of society.
Which had nothing to do with Christianity unless you are implying all morality has been hijacked from the once Crusaders.
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Old 07-02-15, 10:01 AM
  #107  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
You forgot heterosexual.
Did I? You keep telling me that my taste in women runs a bit too far to the athletic/masculine type, so maybe I'm not?
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Old 07-02-15, 10:10 AM
  #108  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Which had nothing to do with Christianity unless you are implying all morality has been hijacked from the once Crusaders.
So Christianity had little to no impact on the development of legal, social and political mores of Western civilization, including the United States?

You think that's a widely held view of credible historians?
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Old 07-02-15, 10:13 AM
  #109  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
So where are they when deranged assholes like the guy in the video are out there defining who they are? I agree, there are good christians out there, but fundamentalism like this is a cancer which will eventually destroy the church.
I would imagine some of them are high-fiving her (and some of the people who are high-fiving her probably aren't Christian).


Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
I guess that's the problem. While the little girl stood there and took all that hate-filled abuse, people kept walking by and "high-fiving" her. For all I or anyone else knows, many of those people could have been regular church-goers. But the symbol of Christianity in the story is the guy yelling at the little girl.
Keep in mind, this was a 20-second clip. So not a lot of context in the sense that we don't really get a chance to see many people react to this douche.

I take the larger point both of you are making -- that many of the most visible faces of Christianity are metaphorically (or literally) yelling at children about damnation and hellfire. I don't think, though, that it's fair to paint all (or even the majority) of Christians with that brush any more than I think it's fair when Ky-Fi argues that all Muslims are represented by the most oppressive and intolerant elements of that religion.
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Old 07-02-15, 10:14 AM
  #110  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
And the 'War on Christianity' is a little girl, filled with love and compassion, who quietly stands up to Christian hate and abuse.
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Old 07-02-15, 10:19 AM
  #111  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
...when Ky-Fi argues that all Muslims are represented by the most oppressive and intolerant elements of that religion.
Please retract that or rephrase it. You're well aware that I've never argued "all" Muslims are anything. I appreciate the fact that you don't fare well when arguing against what I've actually said, but that doesn't give you license to misrepresent me.

Surely I've posted enough on this subject that you can use the "quote" function for accuracy.
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Old 07-02-15, 10:37 AM
  #112  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Last weekend was Comfest weekend here in Columbus, an annual three-day community festival featuring live music and all sorts of other cool things. This year's Comfest made national news because of this incident:

First-Grader Stands Up to Anti-Homosexual Preacher at Comfest



Which is pretty emblematic of the 'War on Christianity' c. 2015. Basically what happened is some asshole homophobe who happens to be an evangelical Christian used Comfest as an opportunity to yell at thousands of people about their sinful ways. Including, for several minutes, a little girl. Her response was to quietly and with great calm and dignity hold up a pride flag while this guy told her everything that was wrong with the way she was living her life. A six-year-old.

And that sums up Christianity to me - an angry, hate-filled asshole trying to scare a little girl by yelling at her. And the 'War on Christianity' is a little girl, filled with love and compassion, who quietly stands up to Christian hate and abuse.
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Old 07-02-15, 11:05 AM
  #113  
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Re: War On Christianity

I'll never forget my mother-in-law point blank telling me how my babies/children will burn in hell because they weren't baptized. It was so shocking to me to know that she really believed that. I point blank told her I want no part of a God that would burn children in hell.
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Old 07-02-15, 11:11 AM
  #114  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Please retract that or rephrase it. You're well aware that I've never argued "all" Muslims are anything. I appreciate the fact that you don't fare well when arguing against what I've actually said, but that doesn't give you license to misrepresent me.

Surely I've posted enough on this subject that you can use the "quote" function for accuracy.
You know, I had a longer post where I started to talk about your analogy about how most Germans were decent people, they just didn't oppose the Nazis, and Muslims are just like that, and why won't anybody please link to the moderate Muslims, etc., etc., etc.

But I decided it was too far afield, so I will simply say that a) if I misrepresented your opinion, it was inadvertent and I apologize, and b) I encourage anybody who is not familiar with Ky-Fi's views on Islam to go check out his posts rather than rely on my brief summary of them.
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Old 07-02-15, 11:16 AM
  #115  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by magiccmom View Post
I'll never forget my mother-in-law point blank telling me how my babies/children will burn in hell because they weren't baptized. It was so shocking to me to know that she really believed that. I point blank told her I want no part of a God that would burn children in hell.
As a child people in my family would tell me that anyone who was Jewish or Muslim was going to burn in hell because they did not believe that Jesus was the son of god, god in the flesh, the holy spirit and the messiah. They also felt that Protestants were misguided foolish people. I sure am glad I left that Catholicism a long time ago.

Last edited by inri222; 07-02-15 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 07-02-15, 11:16 AM
  #116  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
You know, I had a longer post where I started to talk about your analogy about how most Germans were decent people, they just didn't oppose the Nazis, and Muslims are just like that, and why won't anybody please link to the moderate Muslims, etc., etc., etc.

But I decided it was too far afield, so I will simply say that a) if I misrepresented your opinion, it was inadvertent and I apologize, and b) I encourage anybody who is not familiar with Ky-Fi's views on Islam to go check out his posts rather than rely on my brief summary of them.
Oh great, so now you make me look like an overreacting total a-hole. Thanks a lot.

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Old 07-02-15, 11:31 AM
  #117  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Oh great, so now you make me look like an overreacting total a-hole. Thanks a lot.

No thanks necessary -- it's the Christian thing to do.

(Overreacting? Maybe. A-hole? No way)
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Old 07-02-15, 11:50 AM
  #118  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Which is pretty emblematic of the 'War on Christianity' c. 2015. Basically what happened is some asshole homophobe who happens to be an evangelical Christian used Comfest as an opportunity to yell at thousands of people about their sinful ways. Including, for several minutes, a little girl. Her response was to quietly and with great calm and dignity hold up a pride flag while this guy told her everything that was wrong with the way she was living her life. A six-year-old.

And that sums up Christianity to me - an angry, hate-filled asshole trying to scare a little girl by yelling at her. And the 'War on Christianity' is a little girl, filled with love and compassion, who quietly stands up to Christian hate and abuse.
Let me try a one....

The towers came down, and that sums up Islam to me.
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Old 07-02-15, 11:51 AM
  #119  
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Re: War On Christianity

So which items on our Bill of Rights line up to the Ten Commandments?
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Old 07-02-15, 11:53 AM
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Re: War On Christianity

Thou shall have no other God besides money. It's a living document.
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Old 07-02-15, 11:54 AM
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Let me try a one....

The towers came down, and that sums up Islam to me.
Whatever floats your boat.

I would like it if people - here, elsewhere, what have you - didn't reflexively equate criticism of Christianity with endorsement of Islam.
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Old 07-02-15, 11:58 AM
  #122  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
(... A-hole? No way)
Not to be cantankerous and argumentative, but I might take some issue with this......

Spoiler:
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Old 07-02-15, 12:00 PM
  #123  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Really? Just a couple weeks after the Charleston church shooting, and the backstories of those victims, and the responses of the survivors? That video really sums up Christianity to you?
Wenders responded for himself, but I'll add that the video sums up Christianity in the political sphere. There are a lot of hateful people who use Christianity as their vehicle to spew hate, and because hate riles people up more than compassion and love, that hate is easily channeled into our divisive politics.

If I had to guess I would say that the majority of Christians do not fall on the side of the fire and brimstone preachers who will shout at little girls, but those are the types most represented in American politics (and abroad to an extent--thinking about those anti-gay laws in Africa that Americans help draft).

The best thing Christians could do now if they wanted to stop any kind of culture war would be to embrace fair minded preachers who don't stoop to these levels. And stop electing asshole scumbag politicians who use Christianity as an excuse for their misogyny, homophobia, and xenophobia. And challenge those nitwits on Fox News who also use Christianity to spread fear and hate.
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Old 07-02-15, 12:07 PM
  #124  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Now keep in mind - I'm an American, and as such, <b>I know loads of Christians</b>, and many of them are perfectly nice, wonderful people. But as an institution, <b>Christianity is little more than a vehicle that attempts to scare little girls out of treating people with tolerance and love</b> because those people might be different.
Don't you consider that statement to be a bit oxymoronic? If you know many Christians who are "perfectly, nice, wonderful people," how can the institution to which they owe their allegiance & which influences their behavior be so evil?

There are millions who serve others & act as the "hands & feet of Christ" in this world...and who have very conservative, orthodox Christian views and who would step in & protect the young girl. It's like the woman I encountered yesterday while looking over books at a local Salvation Army store who started ranting about how she wished someone would shoot the President, said he was the worst POTUS ever, called him a racist name (in addition to being an atheist), and started venting about "the gays" (while calling herself a Christian). She was countered by others professing to be Christian who chastised her (gently...she actually appeared mentally ill) & pointed out her errors. So which people "represents" the institution...the one one-hinged person whose words violate biblical commands, or those of us who rejected her views?

One can always find examples of bad actors from every race, religion, philosophy, nationality, gender, etc. to use to criticize all others. That's a convenient use of stereotypes to justify placing guilt by (presumed) association...even when the "association" is tenuous at best.

Jesus Himself pointed out that there will be many who claim the name of Christian who will be rejected by Him because, in His words, "I never knew you." No surprise, then, when some falsely claim beliefs that aren't sincere or are badly in error.
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Old 07-02-15, 12:13 PM
  #125  
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Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Don't you consider that statement to be a bit oxymoronic? If you know many Christians who are "perfectly, nice, wonderful people," how can the institution to which they owe their allegiance & which influences their behavior be so evil?

There are millions who serve others & act as the "hands & feet of Christ" in this world...and who have very conservative, orthodox Christian views and who would step in & protect the young girl. It's like the woman I encountered yesterday while looking over books at a local Salvation Army store who started ranting about how she wished someone would shoot the President, said he was the worst POTUS ever, called him a racist name (in addition to being an atheist), and started venting about "the gays" (while calling herself a Christian). She was countered by others professing to be Christian who chastised her (gently...she actually appeared mentally ill) & pointed out her errors. So which people "represents" the institution...the one one-hinged person whose words violate biblical commands, or those of us who rejected her views?
Captain, the irony detector is overloading!
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