Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film
View Poll Results: What is more representative of a "WAR ON CHRISTIANITY"
telling a for-profit, open-to-the-public baker he cant' have a "no gays" policy
3
25.00%
the burning of black churches in South Carolina
9
75.00%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

War On Christianity

Old 07-01-15, 02:35 PM
  #51  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Navinabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 8,941
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Obviously the very concepts of religious freedom, freedom of conscience and equal rights for minority religions, as we understand them today, evolved and arose almost exclusively from Christian civilization, and from populations that were overwhelmingly Christian.
Really? That'll surprise the heck out of the Romans.
Navinabob is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 02:38 PM
  #52  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
The fact that gay people weren't allowed to marry in the US had nothing to do with Christianity? Come on, you know that's absolute nonsense.
Christianity was a contributing factor initially, but the underlying argument for same sex marriage has nothing to do with Christianity.

Also there are Christian churches who have no problem performing same sex marriages, and one even sued for the right to do so as part of their religious freedoms. So I don't see how gay rights could possibly be seen as a war on Christianity.

By your logic, the fact that I don't keep the Sabbath holy, even though I'm not a Christian and prevent no Christians from keeping the Sabbath, is a war on Christianity.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 02:38 PM
  #53  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida, one time home of the space shuttle
Posts: 3,278
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Two different things.

You're talking about personal behavior vs. public policy.

The question was, "Whose beliefs are imposed upon society?"
In that case, the government's beliefs. The Constitution and the laws that have been put in place.

Last edited by magiccmom; 07-01-15 at 02:43 PM.
magiccmom is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 02:43 PM
  #54  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Really? That'll surprise the heck out of the Romans.
Yes, the Jews and Christians always had smooth relations with the Roman authorities pursuant to the complete religious freedom they enjoyed.
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 02:45 PM
  #55  
Banned by request
 
Supermallet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Termite Terrace
Posts: 54,156
Re: War On Christianity

The Jews were treated better under the Romans then they were under Christians until they (the Jews) tried to rebel.
Supermallet is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 02:53 PM
  #56  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 21,582
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by magiccmom View Post
In that case, the government's beliefs. The Constitution and the laws that have been put in place.
And who decides the government's beliefs? And the state and local laws under which you are governed?

(To avoid continual questions/answers, let's cut to the chase):

A majority decides. The majority of your state/county, the majority of the country who elect Congress, the majority of the SCOTUS (who are nominated by the elected POTUS and confirmed by the elected Senate), etc.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, you are governed by other's beliefs at times, and you do impose your beliefs upon others at other times. That is an inescapable fact.

Laws & Constitutions change & can be amended (again, by the will of a majority). And when it comes down to interpreting the Constitution, that is done by a majority of the Court...who, once again, are indirectly elected by a majority of the people (see above).

Last edited by creekdipper; 07-01-15 at 02:58 PM.
creekdipper is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 02:53 PM
  #57  
DVD Talk Hero
 
inri222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 46,893
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Wait, when does Sharia Law get imposed? I must have missed that meeting, I mean, ....something.
I will send you the information tonight via ham radio <strike>comrade</strike> buddy.
inri222 is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 03:32 PM
  #58  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Navinabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 8,941
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Yes, the Jews and Christians always had smooth relations with the Roman authorities pursuant to the complete religious freedom they enjoyed.
Oh, like those Christians that never actually got fed to the lions or those Jews that never revolted and wandered around for 40 year?

You are aware that the world existed before Christians right?
Navinabob is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 03:37 PM
  #59  
DVD Talk Hero
 
inri222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 46,893
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
You are aware that the world existed before Christians right?
Only for about 3700 years.
inri222 is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 05:00 PM
  #60  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Vibiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 13,853
Re: War On Christianity

I didn't vote in the poll because neither situation struck me as indicative of a war on Christianity. The baker is not acting as an agent of his religion when he sells his goods--he is acting as an agent of his business, and a licensed business is required to serve everyone equally, with no discrimination because of membership in a particular group.

The churches that are being burned are being burned because they are black churches, not because they are Christian churches.

Lastly, there is no "war" on Christianity. What there is, is a lot of sour-grapes Christians who are sulking because after more than two hundred years, they finally got told in no uncertain terms (by the Supreme Court, no less) that their day of getting to tell everyone else what's normal or not normal--or who could marry who--has passed. That's two hundred years of having their cultural norms treated as if they were EVERYBODY'S cultural norms. Of course they're whingeing about it now. Nobody likes giving up the shotgun seat.
Vibiana is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 05:29 PM
  #61  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Sean O'Hara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vichy America
Posts: 13,535
Re: War On Christianity

The more I read Ky-Fi, the more I find myself in favor of the War on Christianity.
Sean O'Hara is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 05:33 PM
  #62  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
The more I read Ky-Fi, the more I find myself in favor of the War on Christianity.
Now THAT'S what I come to this forum for.
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 05:44 PM
  #63  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida, one time home of the space shuttle
Posts: 3,278
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
And who decides the government's beliefs? And the state and local laws under which you are governed?

(To avoid continual questions/answers, let's cut to the chase):

A majority decides. The majority of your state/county, the majority of the country who elect Congress, the majority of the SCOTUS (who are nominated by the elected POTUS and confirmed by the elected Senate), etc.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, you are governed by other's beliefs at times, and you do impose your beliefs upon others at other times. That is an inescapable fact.

Laws & Constitutions change & can be amended (again, by the will of a majority). And when it comes down to interpreting the Constitution, that is done by a majority of the Court...who, once again, are indirectly elected by a majority of the people (see above).
I agree with you on that. But it seems to be the laws are made to ensure equal rights to all, not just Christians. And by far the laws are about insuring safety and order without having to incorporate religion. Now you can cite abortion and gay marriage is against your religion, but there is no law saying YOU have to have an abortion or a gay marriage if you don't want to. You can believe it to be against your religion, you just can't decide that for me.
magiccmom is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 05:45 PM
  #64  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Vibiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Living in a van down by the river
Posts: 13,853
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by magiccmom View Post
I agree with you on that. But it seems to be the laws are made to ensure equal rights to all, not just Christians. And by far the laws are about insuring safety and order without having to incorporate religion. Now you can cite abortion and gay marriage is against your religion, but there is no law saying YOU have to have an abortion or a gay marriage if you don't want to. You can believe it to be against your religion, you just can't decide that for me.
Vibiana is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 05:47 PM
  #65  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida, one time home of the space shuttle
Posts: 3,278
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
You live in a country that has had centuries of mostly Christians debating and deciding where Jewish people fit into the US, and those are reflected in the laws and society that we now have. That's the answer to your question.
Christians deciding where Jewish people fit into the US? And based on how Christians decided where we fit in that is the laws of the society we now have? What laws of the society do we now have that reflect where Christians feel I fit in? What does this even mean?
magiccmom is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:13 PM
  #66  
DVD Talk Hero
 
inri222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 46,893
Re: War On Christianity

You might find this interesting magiccmom :

Jewish Cheerleader in the Bible Belt

http://www.aish.com/sp/so/Jewish-Che...ible-Belt.html
inri222 is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:15 PM
  #67  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by magiccmom View Post
Christians deciding where Jewish people fit into the US? And based on how Christians decided where we fit in that is the laws of the society we now have? What laws of the society do we now have that reflect where Christians feel I fit in? What does this even mean?
I'll try one more time:

You live in a country that has had centuries of mostly Christians debating and deciding the rights of all people (including religious minorities) in the US. You enjoy the freedom of religion, conscience and association that you have today because of the beliefs and values those people (overwhelmingly Christian) had, and the subsequent laws they wrote and enacted.
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:18 PM
  #68  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida, one time home of the space shuttle
Posts: 3,278
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
You might find this interesting magiccmom :

Jewish Cheerleader in the Bible Belt

http://www.aish.com/sp/so/Jewish-Che...ible-Belt.html
Well I guess what KY means by deciding where we fit in. Certainly not on a cheerleading squad in the Bible Belt.
magiccmom is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:33 PM
  #69  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
You might find this interesting magiccmom :

Jewish Cheerleader in the Bible Belt

http://www.aish.com/sp/so/Jewish-Che...ible-Belt.html
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that anecdote is perhaps slightly less significant than the confluence of left-wing anti-"Zionist" sentiment and Muslim Jew hatred in Europe:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/16/europe...sm-in-denmark/
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:33 PM
  #70  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 57,304
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
I'll try one more time:

You live in a country that has had centuries of mostly Christians debating and deciding the rights of all people (including religious minorities) in the US. You enjoy the freedom of religion, conscience and association that you have today because of the beliefs and values those people (overwhelmingly Christian) had, and the subsequent laws they wrote and enacted.
I'm sorry but....It aaaalways seems to boil down to a bunch of White mostly male Christians deciding what's good for the rest doesn't it.

Your post reads as if Jews should bow down and kiss the rings of Christians for letting them live "free" with basic Human Rights.
Giantrobo is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:38 PM
  #71  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida, one time home of the space shuttle
Posts: 3,278
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that anecdote is perhaps slightly less significant than the confluence of left-wing anti-"Zionist" sentiment and Muslim Jew hatred in Europe:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/16/europe...sm-in-denmark/
Anti-Semitism is nothing you need to tell me about, in the US or in Europe. We all are fighting wars against who we are. I feel it as a Jew, you feel it as a Christian. Muslims feel it. Gays feel it. Blacks feel it. That's why this thread is very silly, don't you think?
magiccmom is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:39 PM
  #72  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Re: War On Christianity

You sinners are just lucky we even let you exist in God's country, I say.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:39 PM
  #73  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Florida, one time home of the space shuttle
Posts: 3,278
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
I'm sorry but....It aaaalways seems to boil down to a bunch of White mostly male Christians deciding what's good for the rest doesn't it.

Your post reads as if Jews should bow down and kiss the rings of Christians for letting them live "free" with basic Human Rights.
Thank you, Jesus!!! Oh, wait........
magiccmom is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:42 PM
  #74  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Ky-Fi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
I'm sorry but....It aaaalways seems to boil down to a bunch of White mostly male Christians deciding what's good for the rest doesn't it....

Your post reads as if Jews should bow down and kiss the rings of Christians for letting them live "free".
I'm just stating historical fact. America has been, and even now is still, overwhelmingly Christian. When people want to point out that the horrible treatment of native Americans, blacks, women, jews, etc in American history is an example of Christian civilization, I'm not going to dispute that, because it's true. It is what it is. But many people here seem willing to admit that half of it, and then construct their own fantasy history for the other side, where presumably transgender Muslim atheists of color wrested power from the evil Christians (probably in the 1960s) and changed the US from a slave-holding Christian theocracy to a bastion of liberal democracy, whereby slavery was ended, civil rights enacted, freedom of speech and religion granted--all against the will of the evil Christians.

Last edited by Ky-Fi; 07-01-15 at 06:48 PM.
Ky-Fi is offline  
Old 07-01-15, 06:44 PM
  #75  
DVD Talk Hero
 
inri222's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 46,893
Re: War On Christianity

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that anecdote is perhaps slightly less significant than the confluence of left-wing anti-"Zionist" sentiment and Muslim Jew hatred in Europe:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/16/europe...sm-in-denmark/
Originally Posted by magiccmom View Post
Christians deciding where Jewish people fit into the US?
We're talking about the US not Europe or the Middle East.
inri222 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.