Ky-Fi

As I said, it depends on how you define "war". If you don't believe the term "culture wars" is valid, okay.

eXcentris

Human rights: people being able to live their life in dignity, without fear of discrimination based on race, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Christian zealots: "But gay marriage discriminates against my beliefs! War on Christianity! Argh!"

Bullshit. You're still free to believe what you want and practice your religion, and nobody is forcing to to become gay, marry another gay person, or attend gay marriages. And if you don't agree with the first sentence I wrote, than your a racist or a bigot, and discrimination against racists and bigots is not only fine by me, it should be encouraged.

creekdipper

Too busy trying to sort out the War on Women.

So far, She Who Must Be Obeyed is winning.

Ky-Fi

Very well said, and I think we all appreciate your tireless efforts on behalf of gay rights in the Palestinian territories.

creekdipper

What is most representative of a war on Christianity is the battle within the church to maintain faithfulness to scriptural doctrine.

CRM114

You seem to be under the impression, like Huckabee or Cruz, that marriage is exclusively a religious ceremony (and more specifically a Christian ceremony). It's not. No one has "re-defined" marriage because no one religion "owns" marriage. That's why millions of people get married by a justice of the peace, a ship captain, a person with a certificate off the internet, or in a fake chapel in Vegas with Elvis observing. (I'm in the latter camp.)

Yes, equality for gays is a leftist ideal but "marriage" for gays is not. Marriage is a contract between two people, no one ever asked to see my genitals in the courthouse. I actually didn't even have to do the ceremony - we were already married just by signing the documents.

Supermallet

I believe culture wars are a thing, but I think it's disingenuous to call gay rights a war on Christianity. Christians waged war on gay people, not vice versa.

eXcentris

I know it's a huge task, but I prefer helping out my good friends to the South.

Ky-Fi

Really? Is that the general consensus here?

inri222

Gay marriage in only the beginning of the vast left wing conspiracy to overthrow Christianity...MUAHAHA!!! Next up on the agenda will be getting laws passed to make Mao's "The Little Red Book" & Marx's "Das Kapital" mandatory reading in all schools.

Ky-Fi

So how did Christians lose the war if nobody fought back?

Ky-Fi

You mean...like what actually happened over half the globe? Yeah, what an unrealistic, exaggerated fantasy scenario that is! Is your cognitive dissonance so great that you don't even understand that actually happened?

inri222

Supermallet

You're not taking my point. Gay people wanting rights wasn't an attack on Christianity. It has nothing to do with Christianity. No one was saying, "Hey, what's the best way to fuck with Christians? I know, gay marriage!"

Gay people were being denied rights, not by Christians, but by the government. The tax incentives that come with marriage. Rights of inheritance from your significant other, rights of hospital access, rights of attorney, etc. Again, none of these things had to do with Christians.

Gay people understood the best way to get these rights was to make marriage legal between members of the same sex. Again, nothing to do with Christianity.

Christians then butted their heads in and made it an issue about their religious rights, which it never was.

Tell me, was the SCOTUS case that got heard between a gay man and a Christian organization, or between a gay man and an agent of the state?

Let me know when Christian clergy is forced by the state to perform same sex marriages against their will, then I will absolutely agree with you that there is a war with Christianity going on in the United States.

magiccmom

I'm Jewish. What I believe or practice in my religion is besides the point, but I will tell you I do not believe the Bible is truth or that Jesus is God, and I never will. It is not in my reasoning skills to ever do so.

So my question is to Christians, where do you believe I belong in the structure of society? Am I to follow your guidelines of right and wrong, or live by your scripture even though it is not my belief. Do you think I am a second class citizens bound by your scripture? I just want to know where I, or any other faith, or non faith belong in this world in your eyes. Most of you answer according to a Bible that I and many others don't believe in. Should government be run by Christian beliefs that have nothing to do with me?

Ky-Fi

The fact that gay people weren't allowed to marry in the US had nothing to do with Christianity? Come on, you know that's absolute nonsense.

Ky-Fi

Obviously the very concepts of religious freedom, freedom of conscience and equal rights for minority religions, as we understand them today, evolved and arose almost exclusively from Christian civilization, and from populations that were overwhelmingly Christian.

magiccmom

That doesn't answer my question, though.

CRM114

I think its a general consensus that marriage is a contract and does not require a religious component in any way.

creekdipper

Whose beliefs should be imposed?

CRM114

Wait, when does Sharia Law get imposed? I must have missed that meeting, I mean, ....something.

magiccmom

I live my life according to my own beliefs. I don't live my life according to your beliefs.

I don't expect you to live your life according to my beliefs. Do you expect me to live my life according to your beliefs?

CRM114

You are obviously a tier below Christians but only because they need you for Jesus to come back. Before he casts you into hell on Judgement Day. But don't worry, Christians have no use for us (atheist/agnostics) at all so we are WELL below you in the hierarchy.

Ky-Fi

You live in a country that has had centuries of mostly Christians debating and deciding where Jewish people fit into the US, and those are reflected in the laws and society that we now have. That's the answer to your question.

creekdipper

Two different things.

You're talking about personal behavior vs. public policy.

The question was, "Whose beliefs are imposed?" We are talking about societal rules & laws...not anyone running around individually & forcing people do anything (such as take their kids to school...there are compulsory school attendance laws enforced by school boards, courts & police, if necessary).

You may say that you don't "live your life" according to anyone else's beliefs, but you sure can be fined/imprisoned/executed for doing so. Obviously, somebody has some power over your behavior.

Every time you vote, you are voting to "impose your beliefs" upon those who don't agree with you. If everyone agreed, we would need only one political party & no courts.