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SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Old 09-13-15, 04:46 PM
  #1376  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
I'm just tired of the God Squad trying to tell others that they need to live their lives by their God's rules. Why? What gives them the right?
Some will argue 1st Amendment.

But it's more than just FOS.

It's attempting to make their FOS a Law of The Land. It is by refusing to obey laws...that they enforce their own laws on others--who have no choice.
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Old 09-13-15, 04:48 PM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
If it was really about her conscience she at any time could have looked to deny marriage licenses to any couple that is not fit to be married according to her beliefs. Churches that share her beliefs turn away "sinful" heterosexual couples, looking to get married, all the time.

Why are you so insistent that she must have religious objections to other couples than gay ones?

But unless the media that documented all this this missed something, she didn't once look to deny any couple their license until such time as homosexual marriages became law. That is bigotry pure and simple.
Why can't you wrap your head around the notion that someone can hold a deeply-felt and faith-based belief in a very narrow and directed form of bigotry?
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Old 09-13-15, 04:54 PM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
It's attempting to make their FOS a Law of The Land. It is by refusing to obey laws...that they enforce their own laws on others--who have no choice.
That's sort of the way America works. Y'know, civil disobedience.
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Old 09-13-15, 05:21 PM
  #1379  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Actually, it isn't.

There's a big difference between walking down the street, asking for societal change...and somebody who is working in a government position, purposely not obeying federal law, obstructing due process for other citizens.

If we stick to your definition, then we shouldn't punish cops for violating due process, either.

Right?
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Old 09-13-15, 05:22 PM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
Why can't you wrap your head around the notion that someone can hold a deeply-felt and faith-based belief in a very narrow and directed form of bigotry?
My head it not the one that needs wrapping. The point has always been about her inconsistency given the source she has cited as the basis of her beliefs. Had she stated that she made it up on all her own, I would not have posted what I have.

Of course had she done that, she wouldn't have gained the support she received from that claim the same source for their beliefs, but are as equally inconsistent.
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Old 09-13-15, 05:50 PM
  #1381  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by LiquidSky View Post
Is Mike Huckabee still defending that Duggar dude or is Kim Davis his new poster child?
Yeah, the Huckster was fine with Josh Duggar molesting little girls, but once it was divulged that he viewed pornography, that was the unforgivable sin.

So, yeah, Huck will fawning all over Kim Davis until he finds out she had an abortion.
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Old 09-13-15, 07:32 PM
  #1382  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
I know this is supposed to be a smart-ass answer, but the authors were human, so their "authority" is meaningless.
I doubt the woman you have went out of your way to defend would agree with you on that.
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Old 09-13-15, 11:12 PM
  #1383  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
I'm just tired of the God Squad trying to tell others that they need to live their lives by their God's rules. Why? What gives them the right?
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Some will argue 1st Amendment.
But it's more than just FOS.
It's attempting to make their FOS a Law of The Land. It is by refusing to obey laws...that they enforce their own laws on others--who have no choice.
Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
That's sort of the way America works. Y'know, civil disobedience.
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Actually, it isn't.
There's a big difference between walking down the street, asking for societal change...and somebody who is working in a government position, purposely not obeying federal law, obstructing due process for other citizens.
If we stick to your definition, then we shouldn't punish cops for violating due process, either.
Right?
You changed this from an undefined group identified as "The God Squad" and (I assume) a specific reference to Kim Davis.

Whoever "The God Squad" may be, if they are American citizens, then they have an absolute right to use their freedom of speech to advocate for changes to laws.
In some cases, they may choose to dramatize their opposition to a law by breaking it in an attention-grabbing manner.

If the debate is going to be about government officials, who are charged with enforcing the laws, seeking to change the laws, and while doing so refusing to enforce them, then posters need to choose their words more precisely.
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Old 09-13-15, 11:18 PM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
My head it not the one that needs wrapping. The point has always been about her inconsistency given the source she has cited as the basis of her beliefs. Had she stated that she made it up on all her own, I would not have posted what I have.

Of course had she done that, she wouldn't have gained the support she received from that claim the same source for their beliefs, but are as equally inconsistent.
70% of Americans claim to be Christians. I would guess <1% would claim to follow all the dictates in both testaments of The Bible.
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Old 09-13-15, 11:29 PM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
I doubt the woman you have went out of your way to defend would agree with you on that.
I think Kim Davis knows enough to claim that The Bible is a moral authority because it is the revealed word of God, not because of who wrote it.
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Old 09-14-15, 08:43 AM
  #1386  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
You changed this from an undefined group identified as "The God Squad" and (I assume) a specific reference to Kim Davis.

Whoever "The God Squad" may be, if they are American citizens, then they have an absolute right to use their freedom of speech to advocate for changes to laws.
In some cases, they may choose to dramatize their opposition to a law by breaking it in an attention-grabbing manner.

If the debate is going to be about government officials, who are charged with enforcing the laws, seeking to change the laws, and while doing so refusing to enforce them, then posters need to choose their words more precisely.
SHE EITHER NEEDS TO DO HER DAMNED JOB OR QUIT.

Is that precise enough for you?
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Old 09-14-15, 08:47 AM
  #1387  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

The latest:

Davis, who returned to work on Monday, told a news conference any marriage licenses issued would not carry her name, title or her personal authorization. She added she would take no action against deputy clerks who issue licenses, although she does not believe they have the authority to do so.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0RE13920150914

I guess if the Commonwealth of Kentucky holds those licenses to be valid, and the people of Rowan County are OK with paying her salary, this is probably the best compromise solution, though I'm not sure I like the precedent it sets. I guess part of my question is how much of Ms. Davis's job involves issuing marriage licenses? Is this one of many tasks that she's responsible for (and she's only passing off a small part of her job to her deputies), or is this 99% of what she is being paid to do?
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Old 09-14-15, 09:39 AM
  #1388  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
The latest:



http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0RE13920150914

I guess if the Commonwealth of Kentucky holds those licenses to be valid, and the people of Rowan County are OK with paying her salary, this is probably the best compromise solution, though I'm not sure I like the precedent it sets. I guess part of my question is how much of Ms. Davis's job involves issuing marriage licenses? Is this one of many tasks that she's responsible for (and she's only passing off a small part of her job to her deputies), or is this 99% of what she is being paid to do?
Will she continue to issue licenses to divorced people, or adulterers? What a stupid hypocrite.
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Old 09-14-15, 09:47 AM
  #1389  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
The latest:



http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0RE13920150914

I guess if the Commonwealth of Kentucky holds those licenses to be valid, and the people of Rowan County are OK with paying her salary, this is probably the best compromise solution, though I'm not sure I like the precedent it sets. I guess part of my question is how much of Ms. Davis's job involves issuing marriage licenses? Is this one of many tasks that she's responsible for (and she's only passing off a small part of her job to her deputies), or is this 99% of what she is being paid to do?
I assume given the number employees that they do about the same amount as my county (which has about the same number of employees in that office). I'd bet that she would normally issue about one per week. As a result of her actions, I'll bet it is closer to 1 per day on average for awhile. But this is likely a pretty insignificant amount of her time and resources. She likely did nothing before but actually sign the things when the employees presented one to her.
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Old 09-14-15, 10:02 AM
  #1390  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by Count Dooku View Post
I would guess <1% would claim to follow all the dictates in both testaments of The Bible.
Aka: Inconstancy! Glad we agree and can put this to bed.
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Old 09-14-15, 10:05 AM
  #1391  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by magiccmom View Post
Will she continue to issue licenses to divorced people, or adulterers? What a stupid hypocrite.
And heterosexual women that are currently pregnant. She has proven herself as being an inconsistent, hypocritical, bigot. (each word specifically chosen for being precise in its meaning)
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Old 09-14-15, 11:11 AM
  #1392  
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Kim Davis is just lapping this attention up like a pig who's mud pen is ever-expanding and giving a bad representation of those who need to follow the law of The United States of America, thanks to a Federal government who will not step in and put this bitch down.

Originally Posted by Kentucky Governor; July 1, 2015
"Our county clerks took an oath, as elected officials, to uphold the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of Kentucky and to provide important duties in their communities. This oath does not dictate what our clerks must believe, but it certainly prescribes how they must act in carrying out their duties as elected officials. Same-sex couples in Kentucky are now entitled to the issuance of a marriage license by every county clerk, based on Friday’s ruling by the United States Supreme Court. While there are certainly strongly held views on both sides of this issue, the fact remains that each clerk vowed to uphold the law regardless of his or her personal beliefs. I appreciate the clerks who are fulfilling their duties, issuing licenses to all couples, and I would expect others to execute the duties of their offices as prescribed by law and to issue marriage licenses to all Kentuckians.”
And this was 2 months ago! Why is this governor not growing some balls and standing up for his citizens. And this guy is a fucking Democrat.

It really seems as if today, in the US, if you're an extremist, whether on the Left or Right, you get a fucking pass. If you're anything in between and do your job...you're the abnormal person.
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Old 09-14-15, 11:17 AM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I assume given the number employees that they do about the same amount as my county (which has about the same number of employees in that office). I'd bet that she would normally issue about one per week. As a result of her actions, I'll bet it is closer to 1 per day on average for awhile. But this is likely a pretty insignificant amount of her time and resources. She likely did nothing before but actually sign the things when the employees presented one to her.
Yeah, that's what I figured. Wikipedia says Rowan County has a population of 23,000, so I can't imagine she's fielding that many marriage license requests.

My main concern is whether Kentucky law considers a license to be valid if it's not signed by the clerk. If the clerk's signature is a requirement, then the licenses issued by her deputies are not valid, and I want her out of the job. If there's enough flexibility to allow the deputies to issue the licenses, then I guess I'm OK with her keeping the job as a legal matter (though I'd vote against her if I were a Rowan County resident).
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Old 09-14-15, 11:18 AM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
And this was 2 months ago! Why is this governor not growing some balls and standing up for his citizens.
What should the governor do?
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Old 09-14-15, 11:44 AM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

I dunno, let's see...govern?

If he was an Ungovernor, I wouldn't have an issue.
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Old 09-14-15, 11:54 AM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Why is this governor not growing some balls and standing up for his citizens. And this guy is a fucking Democrat.
You just answered your own question.
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Old 09-14-15, 12:18 PM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I dunno, let's see...govern?

If he was an Ungovernor, I wouldn't have an issue.
What the hell does that even mean?
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Old 09-14-15, 12:26 PM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I dunno, let's see...govern?

If he was an Ungovernor, I wouldn't have an issue.
Thanks for the specifics
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Old 09-14-15, 12:29 PM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
What the hell does that even mean?
It's a double gay rainbow all the way.
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Old 09-14-15, 12:41 PM
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Re: SCOTUS warned of civil disobedience over same-sex marriage

A same-sex couple received a marriage license in Rowan County, KY today and the Kentucky legislature is set to change the law to "fix" the situation, and it looks like it will quickly pass when acted on, but that is unlikely to happen before the legislature is back in session in January since the governor does not want to call an emergency session.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/14/politi...iage-kentucky/
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