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Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

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Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Old 03-20-15, 10:14 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by kenbuzz View Post
In Indiana, we are allowed to vote early. Election day marks the end of the voting season which I believe runs for 2 weeks. You do not need a reason to vote early, just show up at the voting center, prove that you are who you claim to be, and cast your ballot.
You lost a lot of people with the "prove that you are who you claim to be" part.
Old 03-20-15, 10:53 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
You lost a lot of people with the "prove that you are who you claim to be" part.
If you define "a lot" as 31 votes per billion cast, sure.

That's billion. With a 'b.'
Old 03-20-15, 11:28 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138 View Post
When I was in high school, that sounded really profound.
Rotfl

Yeah, when I actually read Rush lyrics I can understand why so many people hate them.

The older I get, the cringier they become.
Old 03-20-15, 11:31 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
If you define "a lot" as 31 votes per billion cast, sure.

That's billion. With a 'b.'
Actually I was using "a lot" to represent those that oppose ID's being required to vote not the number of cases (31 cases, not votes) the writer of the opinion piece found through his own independent research.
Old 03-20-15, 11:36 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
A cursory Google Scholar search indicates there is voluminous literature on the subject.

I'll keep reading more studies and summarize the findings here if relevant.
Thanks. Very interesting, and thank you for posting it.

What I had in mind was some sort of study that looks at Senators who announce they are not running for another term. They usually do that relatively far out from the election, so that gives you a long tail of votes and data to look at. You could then look at whether their Heritage Foundation rating, ACLU rating, NRA rating, etc. changes.

As an example, the Barbaras (Boxer and Mikulski) have announced they are not running in 2016. But we will have an entire Congressional term of votes from them as lame ducks. Will they move to the center in their votes? Get more liberal?

I wonder if anybody has done that study?
Old 03-20-15, 11:53 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
If you define "a lot" as 31 votes per billion cast, sure.

That's billion. With a 'b.'
So the review of available data for a 3-year period in Michigan shows 189 likely cases of impersonation, while available data for a 14-year period for the entirety of the rest of the country shows just 41-65 similar cases. Doesn't that almost certainly indicate a horrible deficiency in available data? I'm not using that as an argument for the position he's arguing against, but unless I'm missing something, it seems like shoddy research and more than a bit dishonest to call it a comprehensive investigation.
Old 03-20-15, 02:11 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Can anyone tell me why being forced to vote, in most cases every year, would not be an inconvenience, but being forced to go to the DMV and get a free ID, once every 5 to 6 years, is just too much to ask of someone?
Old 03-22-15, 11:14 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Not only should voting not be mandatory, it should require solving a $5 entry fee, having to solve a logic maze, and having to solve a quadratic equation. Succesfully complete the steps, vote and get your $5 back. Fail and you've paid your Federal Stupidity Tax. Get free people who will put the effort into voting, not stupid fucks who are required by Federal law to vote.

Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
Military service.
Oh fuck no. There are enough Misguided Children willing to enlist. No need to add the retards who don't know how to properly lace their boots, and can only tell left from right by inscribing directions on their boot tops.
Old 03-22-15, 12:23 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

That's not what Obama said.

"In Australia and some other countries, there's mandatory voting," Obama said at an economic event in Cleveland. "It would be transformative if everybody voted — that would counteract money more than anything."
he may have said it awkwardly, but he did not say mandatory voting would be transformative. He mentioned Australia's system, then said,

It would be transformative if everybody voted
He was condemning voter suppression and endorsing greater voter participation, not mandatory voting. I can see how it got reported that way, even without a Fox News crazy filter, but it's still not what he said.
Old 03-22-15, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kahuna415 View Post
And now?
Still rocks, but doesn't sound as philosophical anymore
Old 03-23-15, 12:10 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

I haven't read the thread, so I'll just put in my 2 cents about the concept of mandatory voting. As much as I am fervently in favour of having more people participate in democracy, forcing them to do so is not a solution, I believe. Do we really want people who have zero clues about anything of import casting votes? I think not. There are more than enough low-information and single-issue voters as it is.
I don't think there is a viable solution to low voter turnout. Paying people to vote is possibly an even worse idea. The average Joe or Joan, working long hours and taking care of a family, just isn't engaged by the dry bureaucracy of quotidian politics, and that's part of the reason we end up with so many inadequate and corrupt politicians, who rack up fraudulent and maladroit deeds because they know not enough of the populace is watching or gives a shit.
Old 03-23-15, 02:05 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
The result would be a government that is more representative of the people. Legislators would have to contemplate the needs and concerns of all their constituents, and they would be held accountable by all their constituents.
Wouldn't the government already be considered representative of the people? The people are apparently okay with letting things continue the way they are if they choose not to vote.

Australia has had mandatory voting for decades, and their voting rates are sky-high. Meanwhile, US voting rates are dismal.
I imagine voting rates would be sky high if it's mandatory. I'd be more interested in the results of the high voter turn out. I'd also like to compare the culture, society and other elements of the two countries and see how they differ and how they don't.



Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
Someone who chooses not to vote is an idiot and their point of view needs to be disposed.

damn.
I can see why someone might think abstaining from voting is a stupid decision. Then again, if it's a sham election, or it's voting between two evils I can see why people wouldn't want to be a part of that.

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
While those are decent arguments, I've come around a bit. I find find the term limit argument pretty reasonable now for a variety of reasons, including the one you mention.
I agree on term limits because these people who chose to serve the public view it as a life long career and not a stint in civic responsibility. So they make too many compromises, become too corrupt, because they put their career ahead of the needs of the people and the country.
However, if you have term limits, how do we know that members of congress won't just try to cash out real quick while serving their term?
Either way though, I think the issue of career politicians and whether or not it affects their ability to legislate ethically should be given more thought by the people.

Originally Posted by Norm de Plume View Post
Do we really want people who have zero clues about anything of import casting votes? I think not. There are more than enough low-information and single-issue voters as it is.
I don't think there is a viable solution to low voter turnout. Paying people to vote is possibly an even worse idea. The average Joe or Joan, working long hours and taking care of a family, just isn't engaged by the dry bureaucracy of quotidian politics, and that's part of the reason we end up with so many inadequate and corrupt politicians, who rack up fraudulent and maladroit deeds because they know not enough of the populace is watching or gives a shit.
I agree.
I don't think that mandatory voting addresses the problems our country has or the root causes of low voter turn out.
You bring up a good example of working families. Some of them probably feel they simply don't have enough time to educate themselves on the issues AND adequately manage their busy lives.
You also have the problem of people relying on sensationalism and biased partisan news channels and television personalities because it's entertaining, not because it forces you to think, or actually gives you objective facts, forcing you again, to think for yourself and come to your own conclusion.
People who don't have time or choose not to educate themselves on the issues, but who are forced to vote, may be inclined to vote based on attack ads or headlines.
People have the freedom and opportunity to vote now! And still they prioritize other things in their lives.
Complex issues are reduced into bite-sized consumption for simpletons. We live in a society where materialism and wealth are virtues and a greedy populace demands instant gratification.
We need to fix that shit before we force people to vote.

Someone mentioned that there should be a holiday for voting and that is something that I could agree with. Again, you couldn't make people care, but it puts more focus on the act of social responsibility and a significant amount of people would have more reason to consider going out to vote.
Old 03-23-15, 10:34 AM
  #113  
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

The last thing we should want as a society is even more uninformed voters casting votes. As it stands, since they are not required to vote on every matter, people often refrain from casting an uninformed vote. I'm good with that given the alternative.

If we do anything to improve the voting process it should be to make sure people know what they are voting for before pulling the lever.
Old 03-23-15, 10:40 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Every election involves millions of people voting for people whom they have absolutely no knowledge of their positions on issues. Local elections of state legislators, district judges, attorney generals, city council members are elected based solely on their name and/or party affiliation. What percentage of people simply pull the D or R lever? Is voting on the mere basis of liberal vs conservative beyond the ability of these non-voters you are so afraid of?
Old 03-23-15, 10:46 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Every election involves millions of people voting for people whom they have absolutely no knowledge of their positions on issues. Local elections of state legislators, district judges, attorney generals, city council members are elected based solely on their name and/or party affiliation. What percentage of people simply pull the D or R lever? Is voting on the mere basis of liberal vs conservative beyond the ability of these non-voters you are so afraid of?
I get there are millions that do it. I just would rather avoid have it be a million more. Are you suggesting there are not people that abstain from voting if they don't know, or don't care about the issue? I know I've stayed out of quite often.

As for the party issue, I totally agree. But people that support straight ticket voting have a point when it comes to elections when it's almost a 100% certainty what a person supports, or is against, based on the letter next to their name. Gets trickier in local elections, and that's specifically where I don't want the clueless voter pool making it worse.
Old 03-23-15, 10:57 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Voting, at the most fundamental level, is a choice between parties. I don't see it as a crime using this as your main guide in voting. Joining and running under a party has consequences, both positive and negative, for those making the choice.
Old 03-23-15, 11:17 AM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Voting, at the most fundamental level, is a choice between parties. I don't see it as a crime using this as your main guide in voting. Joining and running under a party has consequences, both positive and negative, for those making the choice.
I agree, although I agree with the Democrats on many many issues I generally vote with Republicans when it comes to the national picture because they tend to support my views in the most important issues. In local elections I vote more with what the individual is saying and has done in the past and have pulled the lever for independents, Democrats, and Republicans.
Old 03-23-15, 12:15 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by DeputyDave View Post
I agree, although I agree with the Democrats on many many issues I generally vote with Republicans when it comes to the national picture because they tend to support my views in the most important issues.
Agreed. That most often goes for state elections also, at least recently.

In local elections I vote more with what the individual is saying and has done in the past and have pulled the lever for independents, Democrats, and Republicans.
In local (such as city and county) elections, I usually don't vote because, well, it's Madison and Dane County. I can rarely find anyone to vote for. For example, in the mayoral primary earlier this month I didn't vote because I couldn't find even a little to agree with among any of the five candidates. I'm not going to vote for either of the two survivors in the general election in two weeks (I will vote in that election because of a Wisconsin Supreme Court election and because of a referendum to amend the Wisconsin Constitution). When I can vote for someone in a local election (rare) I will but I know they're going to lose.

Last edited by movielib; 03-24-15 at 12:27 PM.
Old 03-23-15, 06:55 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by aintnosin View Post
That's not what Obama said.



he may have said it awkwardly, but he did not say mandatory voting would be transformative. He mentioned Australia's system, then said,



He was condemning voter suppression and endorsing greater voter participation, not mandatory voting. I can see how it got reported that way, even without a Fox News crazy filter, but it's still not what he said.
Interesting. I will need to take another look at the comments Obama made before and after.
Old 03-24-15, 12:12 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Mandatory literacy would be much better.
Old 03-24-15, 12:29 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by crazyronin View Post
Not only should voting not be mandatory, it should require solving a $5 entry fee, having to solve a logic maze, and having to solve a quadratic equation. Succesfully complete the steps, vote and get your $5 back. Fail and you've paid your Federal Stupidity Tax. Get free people who will put the effort into voting, not stupid fucks who are required by Federal law to vote.
Wouldn't that be nice? I mean how about something simple? You have to take a drivers test to be able to drive.. why not a voting test to be able to vote?

Example..

Measure X, if passed, will raise taxes.

Will Measure X raise taxes if passed? [ ] Yes [ ] No [ ] Obama

That should eliminate half the people voting right there.
Old 03-24-15, 12:44 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Ah yes, poll taxes and literacy tests. Those were the days! Good times!




Old 03-24-15, 12:53 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

But fining people for not voting is a good idea. They could call it a null tax.
Old 03-24-15, 12:56 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

How is that prohibiting votes? It's not. Poll taxes and literacy tests are illegal but being promoted as good solutions in the thread.
Old 03-24-15, 12:57 PM
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Re: Obama: Mandatory voting would be "transformative"

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Ah yes, poll taxes and literacy tests. Those were the days! Good times!
Everything seems silly until Obama suggests it.. then it's a good idea.

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