We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

kvrdave · 10-30-14, 05:07 AM

I was reading this article and it has this paragraph....

Quote:

During a wide-ranging interview session, Holder was also asked about his 2009 characterization of the country as a "nation of cowards" when it comes to racial matters. He said he stood by those remarks and that the country was "still reluctant to talk about issues of race" and does so only during "episodic cases."

I agree with Holder's sentiment, but I think he is missing something here. How often does someone end up on the hot seat because they are white and talk about race issues? It happens a lot. Hell, I'm sure some of you remember when this happened and the dude was forced to resign for using the word "niggardly" and people thought the word was a racist slur.

It generally feels like if you are a white person, speaking on race issues, that unless you toe the Jessie Jackson line of reasoning, you take an incredibly HUGE risk of being labelled a racist and completely marginalized, despite whatever else you may have said, and despite the fact that you were just trying to have an open dialog about race issues. Even posting something like this you generally expect to hear, "Oh, poor white, Christian, male....you have it so tough." Well, fuck, Mr. Holder, a lot of us would like to oblige and be able to openly discuss race issues, but the left has pretty well taken ownership of the issue as a party issue and uses it as well as it can for party politics. That is Mr. Holder's party.

Hell, for all I know Holder may agree with me, but why is it so impossible for actual race discussions to occur? It seems somewhat disingenuous to me for someone on the left to even bring this up when their party has essentially squelched the ability to even have an open dialog on the case. At least without mentioning the barriers that are in the way of even having the discussion.

Perhaps I'm off base on this and don't know all the details, but wanted to get some thoughts from all you colored people, whities included as a color.

Ky-Fi · 10-30-14, 07:33 AM

Regardless of party, ideology or issue, when somebody says "The country needs to have an honest discussion about ______ ." That generally means "The country needs to start seeing things the way I do and start agreeing with my position."

raven56706 · 10-30-14, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi

Regardless of party, ideology or issue, when somebody says "The country needs to have an honest discussion about ______ ." That generally means "The country needs to start seeing things the way I do and start agreeing with my position."

agreed.

What we really need is better education and smarten up our youth. Because unfortunately that will be the only way to fix all of this.

DVD Josh · 10-30-14, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi

Regardless of party, ideology or issue, when somebody says "The country needs to have an honest discussion about ______ ." That generally means "The country needs to start seeing things the way I do and start agreeing with my position."

This might be the smartest thing ever written on this forum.

kvrdave · 10-30-14, 08:06 AM

mods, please delete that post.

Ky-Fi · 10-30-14, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVD Josh

This might be the smartest thing ever written on this forum.

Thanks--that's really just par for the course for me. You'll generally find that I'm far ahead of everyone else here when it comes to humility, as well.

Tracer Bullet · 10-30-14, 09:13 AM

I think, in general, we've been entirely too self-congratulatory on race relations in this country. The civil rights movement and MLK have been deified and everything is now cool. Well, no, not everything is cool. I think that white people should just listen--listen--to what black people have to say, without interjecting with their own thoughts. That would help.

Bandoman · 10-30-14, 09:25 AM

I'm not sure what this thread is about, but I love everyone and I don't see color. I'm like Stephen Colbert that way.

DVD Polizei · 10-30-14, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi

Regardless of party, ideology or issue, when somebody says "The country needs to have an honest discussion about ______ ." That generally means "The country needs to start seeing things the way I do and start agreeing with my position."

And why did Eric just suddenly come up with this amazing need for "discussion". Most people have enlightenment...when they leave office.

Holder has not left a good impression on journalists or reporters, and he certainly hasn't been the one who wanted have discussions. He wanted to squash those discussions.

spainlinx0 · 10-30-14, 09:54 AM

There are honest discussions happening about race, but not by politicians. A few of my favorite radio shows have comedians of all races come on all the time, and race is often an issue, and they are honest. The problem is you can't expect a politician to be honest.

wendersfan · 10-30-14, 09:55 AM

Well, without knowing the exact context of Holder's comment, I would have to say he's absolutely correct.

Hey, I'm sorry if white people get butthurt because a black person states the obvious. Your butthurt isn't my concern, sorry.

spainlinx0 · 10-30-14, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

I think, in general, we've been entirely too self-congratulatory on race relations in this country. The civil rights movement and MLK have been deified and everything is now cool. Well, no, not everything is cool. I think that white people should just listen--listen--to what black people have to say, without interjecting with their own thoughts. That would help.

Agreed. But as a condition for us listening, black comedians can't use the cliche "white people talk like this" stuff anymore.

CRM114 · 10-30-14, 10:03 AM

Aren't you making his point? You say you are taking a huge risk if you talk about race, thus, you are being a coward by avoiding that risk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi

Regardless of party, ideology or issue, when somebody says "The country needs to have an honest discussion about ______ ." That generally means "The country needs to start seeing things the way I do and start agreeing with my position."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

I think, in general, we've been entirely too self-congratulatory on race relations in this country. The civil rights movement and MLK have been deified and everything is now cool. Well, no, not everything is cool. I think that white people should just listen--listen--to what black people have to say, without interjecting with their own thoughts. That would help.

These posts are diametrically opposed. I'm going with Tracer Bullet.

JasonF · 10-30-14, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei

And why did Eric just suddenly come up with this amazing need for "discussion". Most people have enlightenment...when they leave office.

Quote:

During a wide-ranging interview session, Holder was also asked about his 2009 characterization of the country as a "nation of cowards" when it comes to racial matters. He said he stood by those remarks and that the country was "still reluctant to talk about issues of race" and does so only during "episodic cases."

Quote:

During a wide-ranging interview session, Holder was also asked about his 2009 characterization of the country as a "nation of cowards" when it comes to racial matters. He said he stood by those remarks and that the country was "still reluctant to talk about issues of race" and does so only during "episodic cases."

Quote:

During a wide-ranging interview session, Holder was also asked about his 2009 characterization of the country as a "nation of cowards" when it comes to racial matters. He said he stood by those remarks and that the country was "still reluctant to talk about issues of race" and does so only during "episodic cases."

Quote:

During a wide-ranging interview session, Holder was also asked about his 2009 characterization of the country as a "nation of cowards" when it comes to racial matters. He said he stood by those remarks and that the country was "still reluctant to talk about issues of race" and does so only during "episodic cases."

Sean O'Hara · 10-30-14, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei

And why did Eric just suddenly come up with this amazing need for "discussion". Most people have enlightenment...when they leave office.

Reading is fundamental:

Quote:

During a wide-ranging interview session, Holder was also asked about his 2009 characterization of the country as a "nation of cowards" when it comes to racial matters.

Ky-Fi · 10-30-14, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRM114

These posts are diametrically opposed. I'm going with Tracer Bullet.

And this is why many conservatives are concerned about infringements on free speech rights potentially coming from the other side. Here you have two posters on the left who openly and honestly believe a major issue in American society would be better served if more than 50% of the population were completely excluded from the discussion.

Tracer Bullet · 10-30-14, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi

And this is why many conservatives are concerned about infringements on free speech rights potentially coming from the other side. Here you have two posters on the left who openly and honestly believe a major issue in American society would be better served if more than 50% of the population were completely excluded from the discussion.

Ky-Fi · 10-30-14, 10:42 AM

Did you say white people should not interject their thoughts or did you not say that?

spainlinx0 · 10-30-14, 10:44 AM

I don't think he meant permanently. How about just not reflexively getting defensive and taking a second to digest what's said?

wendersfan · 10-30-14, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi

And this is why many conservatives are concerned about infringements on free speech rights potentially coming from the other side. Here you have two posters on the left who openly and honestly believe a major issue in American society would be better served if more than 50% of the population were completely excluded from the discussion.

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but it certainly appears to me as if you are saying that a call for a more extensive dialogue about race is the same thing as an exhortation that some not talk about it at all.

This is most confusing.

Tracer Bullet · 10-30-14, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spainlinx0

I don't think he meant permanently. How about just not reflexively getting defensive and taking a second to digest what's said?

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. "Dialogue" about race in this country mostly is black people saying something calmly and white people saying "THAT'S NOT RIGHT AT ALL!!!! WE ENDED SLAVERY AND YOU HAVE CIVIL RIGHTS!!! STOP COMPLAINING" and the black person saying "Well, yes, but, you see, black people still lag behind on many socio--" "OH MY GOD ARE YOU STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? BEYONCE!!!"

Now, if white people could behave and LISTEN to what black people have to say, without acting defensive, THEN they get their turn to speak. I learned this in kindergarten.

Ky-Fi · 10-30-14, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spainlinx0

How about just not reflexively getting defensive and taking a second to digest what's said?

Nope, I'm not unilaterally agreeing to that.

Ky-Fi · 10-30-14, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendersfan

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but it certainly appears to me as if you are saying that a call for a more extensive dialogue about race is the same thing as an exhortation that some not talk about it at all.

Nope, I'm saying that an exhortation for some to not talk about it at all is an exhortation for some to not talk about it at all.

CRM114 · 10-30-14, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi

And this is why many conservatives are concerned about infringements on free speech rights potentially coming from the other side. Here you have two posters on the left who openly and honestly believe a major issue in American society would be better served if more than 50% of the population were completely excluded from the discussion.

Um, I believe OUR side has had the floor for 500 years.

Ky-Fi · 10-30-14, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. "Dialogue" about race in this country mostly is black people saying something calmly and white people saying "THAT'S NOT RIGHT AT ALL!!!! WE ENDED SLAVERY AND YOU HAVE CIVIL RIGHTS!!! STOP COMPLAINING" and the black person saying "Well, yes, but, you see, black people still lag behind on many socio--" "OH MY GOD ARE YOU STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? BEYONCE!!!"

Now, if white people could behave and LISTEN to what black people have to say, without acting defensive, THEN they get their turn to speak. I learned this in kindergarten.

Now I'm confused. So you're NOT against white people expressing opinions on the issue that you don't approve of--you just want them to wait a polite amount of time before expressing those opinions?