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We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Old 10-30-14, 12:53 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

An 'honest' discussion of race usually devolves into idiocy of the "And how come we can't have WHITE History Month?!!" variety.
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Old 10-30-14, 12:56 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Do you read Ta-Nehesi Coates? You should.

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/arc...merica/277084/

I'd also add the other piece of the puzzle is this--why are black women choosing not to marry?
Yet Coates believes that 'fatherless' children is a significant problem in the black community, does he not?
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Old 10-30-14, 01:01 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Ta-Nehesi Coates
"Theories of cultural decline are irrelevant. Policy not so much. Given the contact rates between the justice system and young black men, and given how that contact affects your employment prospects, the decision by many black women to not marry, and to have less children, strikes me as logical."
Or not?

If a single mother is able to work, her earning power still lags significantly compared with men's, about 77 cents to a $1 for the same job — leaving a wage gap of 23 cents on the dollar.

The wage disparities are even greater for women of color — African-American women (64 cents)
The median income for families led by a single mother in 2012 was $25,493, one third the median for married couple families ($81,455).

Only one third of single mothers receive any child support, and the average amount these mothers receive is only about $400 a month.
Single mothers are more likely to be poor than married couples. The poverty rate for single-mother families in 2013 was 39.6%, nearly five times more than the rate (7.6%) for married-couple families.

Poverty rates were about one in two for Black (46.3%)
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Old 10-30-14, 01:08 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
Yet Coates believes that 'fatherless' children is a significant problem in the black community, does he not?
Yes, but that doesn't mean that he ascribes to the moral failing argument.
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Old 10-30-14, 01:11 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Yes, but that doesn't mean that he ascribes to the moral failing argument.
Okay, fair enough. I didn't actually read the text of Ky-Fi's post to see what point he was making.


However, surely there is a moral component of the embrace of responsible fatherhood, other well known mitigating factors acknowledged.
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Old 10-30-14, 01:28 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
Okay, fair enough. I didn't actually read the text of Ky-Fi's post to see what point he was making.


However, surely there is a moral component of the embrace of responsible fatherhood, other well known mitigating factors acknowledged.
Maybe. Although I have no idea how you would correct for that in the data. And given the vast historical gulf between blacks and whites, I would be very hesitant to make such an argument, because it's very difficult to do so without it making it sound like you think black men are more immoral than men of other races. An argument which is obviously nonsense.
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Old 10-30-14, 01:37 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Maybe. Although I have no idea how you would correct for that in the data. And given the vast historical gulf between blacks and whites, I would be very hesitant to make such an argument, because it's very difficult to do so without it making it sound like you think black men are more immoral than men of other races. An argument which is obviously nonsense.
Now this is the tricky part. I think most of us would agree that someone's race doesn't predispose anyone towards any type of morality or behavior. But there certainly is a correlation between people's environment/culture and their behavior/morality. And while they're not synonymous, race and culture often overlap.
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Old 10-30-14, 01:41 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. "Dialogue" about race in this country mostly is black people saying something calmly and white people saying "THAT'S NOT RIGHT AT ALL!!!! WE ENDED SLAVERY AND YOU HAVE CIVIL RIGHTS!!! STOP COMPLAINING" and the black person saying "Well, yes, but, you see, black people still lag behind on many socio--" "OH MY GOD ARE YOU STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? BEYONCE!!!"

Now, if white people could behave and LISTEN to what black people have to say, without acting defensive, THEN they get their turn to speak. I learned this in kindergarten.

Hmmmm, so we have to quit stereotyping Black people because of the way all White people are.
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Old 10-30-14, 01:47 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Hmmmm, so we have to quit stereotyping Black people because of the way all White people are.
Shut up whitey
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Old 10-30-14, 01:51 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Now this is the tricky part. I think most of us would agree that someone's race doesn't predispose anyone towards any type of morality or behavior. But there certainly is a correlation between people's environment/culture and their behavior/morality. And while they're not synonymous, race and culture often overlap.
Sure. I've been following this controversy about this Hollaback video of street harassment, specifically, that the vast majority of the men videoed are black are Latino, and that this has more to do with class than anything else. Now, we can certainly say that street harassment is immoral, but we can also say that the class of people that do most of the street harassment are doing it not because they are immoral, but because that is the environment in which they were raised.

So I guess my point is, I think white people should be very careful about making morality arguments about black men, because that is historically very loaded, and yes, was a tactic used by racists to uphold white supremacy.
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Old 10-30-14, 01:52 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

I hate all you white pieces of shit. Hate. HATE.
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Old 10-30-14, 01:54 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Solid Snake View Post
I hate all you white pieces of shit. Hate. HATE.
Aw, that's how I feel about straight people!
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Old 10-30-14, 01:56 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Solid Snake View Post
I hate all you white pieces of shit. Hate. HATE.
Now, would it really hurt you to be a little more polite and say "pieces of crap"?
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Old 10-30-14, 01:57 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

It would hurt me. I've a condition!
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Old 10-30-14, 02:02 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Solid Snake View Post
I hate all you white pieces of shit. Hate. HATE.
Is your roommate white? Because that would change things in the "Last thing that made you happy..." thread.
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Old 10-30-14, 02:04 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by wendersfan View Post
Hey, I'm sorry if white people get butthurt because a black person states the obvious. Your butthurt isn't my concern, sorry.
Yes, this is exactly the kind of attitude we need for a mature discussion of the issue.

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Aren't you making his point? You say you are taking a huge risk if you talk about race, thus, you are being a coward by avoiding that risk.
Yeah, that's a fair point. But how is it much different than saying, "we need to get in there and train those lions, but we are a bunch of cowards." I mean, great....we should have the discussion, but the discussion needs to be on equal footing if the goal is to actually work towards a conclusion, don't you think? There is legitimate danger in a white person trying to have this discussion. Being labelled a racist is akin to "rapist" or "child molester," in that the accusation is damning in itself with no regard to whether a person is found guilty, etc. I'm not saying that that racism isn't around, I believe it absolutely is and institutional racism is something we should strive to eliminate. But look at this thread.....the words used by both sides won't do anything to actually have a discussion about it. You have reverse racism objections and insincere apologies for butthurting people. Isn't that also a part of what we need to get rid of?

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
No, he's saying white people need to step back and listen to the other side is actually saying instead of constantly trying to derail the discussion with nitpickery.

This is how the typical American discussion on race goes:

Person A: Hollywood movies are overwhelmingly white. Apart from niche pictures aimed at urban audiences, blacks are typically relegated to supporting roles.

Person B: But Will Smith.

A: Yes, okay, Will Smith gets some big movies, but he's an exception. When a producer is casting an Oscar-bait film about the struggles of being middle class, they go with someone like Kevin Spacey or an Affleck.

B: Yeah, but Denzel Washington.

A: Yes, Denzel is awesome, but still an exception. He and Smith don't make up for the overwhelming preponderance of white people in major starring roles.

B: But Morgan Freeman.

A: Are you even listening to what I'm saying?
I agree, generally. This does go on. But (not to be B in your example), but I think there also needs to be some give from the other side. Long ago at the beginning of the Tea Party there were cries of racism, etc., which I never saw. There are plenty of examples of it now, unfortunately. But when the Democrats marched slowly through a Tea Party rally in DC, everyone was looking for racial slurs, etc. and it never happened. I remember Breitbart (I think it was him) offering to pay $10,000 for anyone that could produce video or audio of it happening because those were the claims before the march even started.

What I see in this thread is that both sides seem to want the other to give up something in order for a discussion to happen. I'd just prefer that people could actually just discuss it calmly and rationally, but it seems obvious to me that both sides keep this from being able to happen.
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Old 10-30-14, 02:06 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
I think, in general, we've been entirely too self-congratulatory on race relations in this country. The civil rights movement and MLK have been deified and everything is now cool. Well, no, not everything is cool. I think that white people should just listen--listen--to what black people have to say, without interjecting with their own thoughts. That would help.
Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Oh would you just shut the fuck up.
As a white man, I decided to wait a polite amount of time before expressing my opinion....

Originally Posted by printerati View Post
Further proof that your side has no interest in what white people have to say!
Dammit! Beat me to the punch line!
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Old 10-30-14, 02:15 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by printerati View Post
Is your roommate white? Because that would change things in the "Last thing that made you happy..." thread.
Who says you can't fuck that which you hate?

I like fucking white chicks cuz it makes me like I'm taking something away from the white man!

seriously though, the conversation of race is something that people take to a knee jerk state or don't understand the culture they're in.

Black people, while progressing a lot in the culture mind, is still a n igger. People still have issue with blacks.

Hispanics are all Mexicans somehow. Or wetbacks.

etc etc.

Racism is still a big deal.

Arguably this probably is stemming more from whites than minorities. But minorities hate other minorities too cuz racism is fun.
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Old 10-30-14, 02:21 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/jGQ-ISsDm8M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Old 10-30-14, 02:31 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

The Daily Show: The R Word

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/g65t3j/the-r-word
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Old 10-30-14, 03:00 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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Old 10-30-14, 03:06 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
A bunch of white guys fighting each other for your amusement?

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Old 10-30-14, 03:07 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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Old 10-30-14, 03:11 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Ky-Fi View Post
Here's one major example I would give. I wouldn't say it's completely disconnected from race, because I think the black community was already historically weak from racism
Now this is where I could jump to the extreme conclusion that you're some sort of klansman who thinks blacks are weaker than any other race, but what's the fucking point? I know what you meant. Is it worth my time or yours to pretend I misunderstood, then make you clarify, and go back and forth like that for a dozen posts?
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Old 10-30-14, 03:26 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
Now this is where I could jump to the extreme conclusion that you're some sort of klansman who thinks blacks are weaker than any other race, but what's the fucking point? I know what you meant. Is it worth my time or yours to pretend I misunderstood, then make you clarify, and go back and forth like that for a dozen posts?
I can't speak for you, but yes, it would be worth my time.
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