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We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Old 08-13-17, 04:21 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

All crimes matter!
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Old 08-13-17, 04:22 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

The US War Department put this video out in 1943.
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Old 08-13-17, 04:23 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Oh crap someone beat me to it. Well now you get it twice.
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Old 08-13-17, 04:24 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Haha. That video is showing up everywhere on Twitter.
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Old 08-13-17, 04:30 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Haha. That video is showing up everywhere on Twitter.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
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Old 08-13-17, 04:34 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
All crimes matter!
Exactly right, according to victims and their families.
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Old 08-13-17, 04:34 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
All crimes matter!

I applaud your brevity.
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Old 08-13-17, 04:36 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Kurtie Dee View Post

I applaud your brevity.
#BrevityMatters
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Old 08-13-17, 04:36 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Exactly right, according to victims and their families.
Hey Creek! What is the legal definition of a 'hate crime'?
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Old 08-13-17, 04:44 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
I heard another caller describe the deceased victim of the car attack as being a "martyr." I would like to see more speech and less martyrs. I disagree that lack of in-your-face opposition indicates that "intimidation" is working. Fighting violence with violence (or threats of violence) just plays into their hands. You want to prove them wrong? Counter their demonstration with a much larger demonstration elsewhere with a positive message in contrast to theirs. Put them to shame, both numerically and rhetorically.
Maybe a safe area for protestors?


I'm not advocating for violence or threats of violence at all. But counter protests are common. Who was killed at this protest? And by who?



Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
That depends upon who's applying the subjective definition.

Prosecutors are the ones who decide when to charge someone with a "hate crime" depending upon the circumstances. Technically, the legal standards vary according to statements made, intent expressed, terminology used, etc. in order to pass legal muster.

snip

Will this be prosecuted as a "hate crime" simply because the victim was white and the perpetrator black? Not likely unless some other evidence comes to light. But the victim is dead just the same though the thoughtless, callous actions of another individual who took from his victim and all those who knew and loved him the most precious thing of all...life itself.

If that's not an example of a "hateful" act, what is it?
So why call it a hate crime? You know damn well this isn't going to be classified as a hate crime unless the killer says he wanted to kill white people, hates white people, etc.

I have no problem discussing various view points with people here. I don't want it to be an echo chamber either.
But you go out of your way with this stuff.
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Old 08-13-17, 04:48 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by VinVega View Post
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
I already posted the video on the previous page. And then I saw it posted a bunch of times in famous people's Twitter. I'm already on board with the video's message. I don't need them to tell me.

The messages that zing me (and I still haven't adjusted) are the ones that criticize moderates for being passive. I am not a protester. I am not an activist. I don't have answers.

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Old 08-13-17, 04:57 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Here's video of the rally organizer getting chased off during a press conference today. I would have rather he been left to speak. No way does his rhetoric hold up under any kind of scrutiny. Allow him to speak and let the evisceration begin. That would have been a more productive way to expose these people. Now we have to defend these people for chasing him off.

I don't like seeing people throw punches, even when it's at scumbags.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Unite the Right rally organizer Jason Kessler was chased away by protesters during a press conference in Charlottesville <a href="https://t.co/5HOnoc0yal">pic.twitter.com/5HOnoc0yal</a></p>&mdash; NBC News (@NBCNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/896820888930332672">August 13, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Old 08-13-17, 05:02 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Counter-demonstrations showing superior numbers with the approval of the populace proves its point, and it doesn't provide the opposition with the martyrs they want. Countering violence with vulgarity and violence may be satisfying to some, but it may actually be counterproductive. Even while people find some ideas to be repugnant, many still don't want to see a mob beat up and bloody protesters of any stripe.
I do agree with this.
Because when you give into violence and vulgarity as you said, it gives the other side the ammunition to say, "See, see! We told you that's how they are!"
Not only that, but we've had posters here encourage violence against these white nationalists/nazis, not realizing, that unless it's in self-defense, the person doing the punching will go to jail, get a record, etc.

However, your approach seems way too passive, in mentality. You're approach leaves open the possibility that these beliefs and attitudes, this kind of movement becomes more mainstream.
If people like you are more vocal about the counter protestors than the protestors who are nazis and white supremacists, where do you think that will leave us in the future?

We have a significant problem with racism in this country, and look back at what you choose to post about in this thread.
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Old 08-13-17, 05:10 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Here's video of the rally organizer getting chased off during a press conference today. I would have rather he been left to speak. No way does his rhetoric hold up under any kind of scrutiny. Allow him to speak and let the evisceration begin. That would have been a more productive way to expose these people. Now we have to defend these people for chasing him off.

I don't like seeing people throw punches, even when it's at scumbags.
I agree, but if the person is popular or charismatic, then people don't want to really scrutinize them.
Look at Bill Maher when he did the interview with that ex-Breitbart guy. He was practically fawning over him.

But then again, having people like the guy who organized this rally be interviewed by CNN, and have it promoted, that gives these white supremacists more exposure too. From what little I watched of that interview, I didn't feel like there was any evisceration of his rhetoric.
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Old 08-13-17, 05:14 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by majorjoe23 View Post
Ignoring Nazis, especially when they've been empowered, has had historically bad consequences.
Explain how they've been "empowered". Who has given them legal authority to commit crimes and get away with them.

This is much different than the 20's and 30's.

The last time I checked the news...this person is being charged with murder. He isn't walking out the back door, going home (which happened in our recent history, in case you don't remember those times or read about them).

And when has any other White Supremacist act on others in the last decade or two...gone unpunished. I want a shitload of examples, not just a few.

Because to validate your theory, you must prove quantitative crimes...not just one or two so that it fits your agenda.

If anything, we are more aware of such groups. And if anything, there are more "white people" who despise such groups.

However, you may not want to admit this, but having different views, even when those views are horrible...is still legal in the US. People can march if the city agrees to their freedom of speech and the group does not operate outside the legal ordinances of that city.

In Oregon, the mayor wanted to shut these people down and refuse their protesting/activism and you know what...the ACLU came to their defense and told the mayor to fuck off.

What about empowering groups that justify their violence based on the accusations of other groups?
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Old 08-13-17, 05:19 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....


This is a great point. Let's see if the Repubs step up.
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Old 08-13-17, 05:20 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Explain how they've been "empowered". Who has given them legal authority to commit crimes and get away with them.


Do you really think he meant white supremacists have been legally empowered to commit crimes?
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Old 08-13-17, 05:56 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by majorjoe23 View Post
Ignoring Nazis, especially when they've been empowered, has had historically bad consequences.
Well, not if you sympathize with the Nazis.


Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
So why call it a hate crime? You know damn well this isn't going to be classified as a hate crime unless the killer says he wanted to kill white people, hates white people, etc.
It's an attempt to diminish and dismiss the magnitude of what happened yesterday. It's a pathetic stab at false equivalency. It's a scheme to get us talking about something other than the terrorist attack committed by a member of the alt-Right.

There's no other reason to post that story. None.
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Old 08-13-17, 05:59 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

No, it's not an attempt dismiss anything.

If it's a hate crime...it's a hate crime. There are legal standards that have to be fulfilled, in order for it to become a hate crime.

We are way too early into the investigation to have solidified charges yet.

If you want to scream terrorist attack, we have many examples during the Obama Administration, which did not bring terrorist charges, although the public was screaming for them.

I didn't hear Democrats accuse Obama of trying to dismiss and diminish when terrorist charges weren't brought.
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Old 08-13-17, 06:04 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
No, it's not an attempt dismiss anything.

If it's a hate crime...it's a hate crime. There are legal standards that have to be fulfilled, in order for it to become a hate crime.

We are way too early into the investigation to have solidified charges yet.

If you want to scream terrorist attack, we have many examples during the Obama Administration, which did not bring terrorist charges, although the public was screaming for them.

I didn't hear Democrats accuse Obama of trying to dismiss and diminish when terrorist charges weren't brought.
I was wondering how long it would take you to bring Obama into it. I actually expected it last night.
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Old 08-13-17, 06:20 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Same ol' bullshit.
Watching the usual suspects try to spin this attack has been pathetic.

"Both sides! I blame the victims for being in the streets! All crimes matter! What about Obama?"

Just disgusting.
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Old 08-13-17, 06:24 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Explain how they've been "empowered". Who has given them legal authority to commit crimes and get away with them.

This is much different than the 20's and 30's.

The last time I checked the news...this person is being charged with murder. He isn't walking out the back door, going home (which happened in our recent history, in case you don't remember those times or read about them).

And when has any other White Supremacist act on others in the last decade or two...gone unpunished. I want a shitload of examples, not just a few.

Because to validate your theory, you must prove quantitative crimes...not just one or two so that it fits your agenda.

If anything, we are more aware of such groups. And if anything, there are more "white people" who despise such groups.

However, you may not want to admit this, but having different views, even when those views are horrible...is still legal in the US. People can march if the city agrees to their freedom of speech and the group does not operate outside the legal ordinances of that city.

In Oregon, the mayor wanted to shut these people down and refuse their protesting/activism and you know what...the ACLU came to their defense and told the mayor to fuck off.

What about empowering groups that justify their violence based on the accusations of other groups?
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

But what has empowered them? Let's play hangman. I'll spot you four letters

_ RUMP

Also, voters like YO_
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Old 08-13-17, 06:58 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Explain how they've been "empowered". Who has given them legal authority to commit crimes and get away with them.

This is much different than the 20's and 30's.

The last time I checked the news...this person is being charged with murder. He isn't walking out the back door, going home (which happened in our recent history, in case you don't remember those times or read about them).

And when has any other White Supremacist act on others in the last decade or two...gone unpunished. I want a shitload of examples, not just a few.

Because to validate your theory, you must prove quantitative crimes...not just one or two so that it fits your agenda.

If anything, we are more aware of such groups. And if anything, there are more "white people" who despise such groups.

However, you may not want to admit this, but having different views, even when those views are horrible...is still legal in the US. People can march if the city agrees to their freedom of speech and the group does not operate outside the legal ordinances of that city.

In Oregon, the mayor wanted to shut these people down and refuse their protesting/activism and you know what...the ACLU came to their defense and told the mayor to fuck off.

What about empowering groups that justify their violence based on the accusations of other groups?
This is almost exactly like the 30s and 40s. We even have a new Spanish Civil War in Venezuela. The difference is that this time, we're Germany.
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Old 08-13-17, 07:03 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Preterite View Post
Watching the usual suspects try to spin this attack has been pathetic.

"Both sides! I blame the victims for being in the streets! All crimes matter! What about Obama?"

Just disgusting.
We had to sit thru 8 years of "But--but--but Bush!" Fair ball Id say.
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Old 08-13-17, 07:09 PM
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Originally Posted by Rex Power Colt-Robot Man View Post
We had to sit thru 8 years of "But--but--but Bush!" Fair ball Id say.
Of course you would say that..
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