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Religion, Politics and World Events They make great dinner conversation, don't you think? plus Political Film

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Old 12-17-14, 10:01 PM   #251
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
“Black and white bodies are not treated equally.”
One also has to ask, do black and white bodies treat LEOs differently?

I do not put forward this as justification, but human beings have a tendency to generalize and to reciprocate.
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Old 12-17-14, 10:49 PM   #252
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

I'm not saying it couldn't have happened but I don't believe their story. The NYPD had a process for arresting peaceful protesters which they showed on CNN and I seriously doubt they strayed from it given the circumstances.
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Old 12-17-14, 11:38 PM   #253
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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Originally Posted by Neil M. View Post
I'm not saying it couldn't have happened but I don't believe their story.
There is nothing more untrustworthy than a pair of seminary students.

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The NYPD had a process for arresting peaceful protesters which they showed on CNN and I seriously doubt they strayed from it given the circumstances.
They had a procedure about not using chokeholds too, didn't they?
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Old 12-17-14, 11:58 PM   #254
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Sorry, the story seems too perfect. It would be nice to know if there were other white people in the group who were arrested. They say the pen was racially mixed. How many were among the protesters and were they treated the same way? It's strange that you get this story from two people who know each other well and who also just happen to have a problem with the way that police do their jobs. If there are other witnesses, I will be willing to admit I was wrong.
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Old 12-18-14, 07:06 AM   #255
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Michelle Obama's Racist Experiences
“The Obamas: How We Deal with Our Own Racist Experiences.”

“I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn’t see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn’t anything new.”

Of all the nerve! Why in the world would that stupid racist think it’s Michelle Obama’s job to help people?
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Old 12-18-14, 12:14 PM   #256
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

That is just stupid. I can't tell you how many times I have been asked to get stuff off of a shelf by a woman while shopping. Know why? I am tall. Guess how tall Michelle Obama is?
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Old 12-18-14, 12:35 PM   #257
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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Originally Posted by mspmms View Post
Michelle Obama's Racist Experiences
“The Obamas: How We Deal with Our Own Racist Experiences.”

“I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn’t see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn’t anything new.”

Of all the nerve! Why in the world would that stupid racist think it’s Michelle Obama’s job to help people?
When I visit a Target after work, I often get asked for help. People always apologize and say I look like a manager. I'm also white. But those kind of things happen in life. So it isn’t anything new.
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Old 12-18-14, 12:38 PM   #258
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

I'm also white, and when I'm out at Target I get asked for investment tips because I look like the CEO of a major corporation.
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Old 12-18-14, 12:40 PM   #259
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Interesting she told that same story on Letterman a while back and had a very different take on it:



“No one knew that was me. Because a woman actually walked up to me, right? I was in the detergent aisle, and she said — I kid you not — she said, ‘Excuse me, I just have to ask you something.’ And I thought, ‘Oh, cover’s blown.’ She said, ‘Can you reach on that shelf and hand me the detergent?’ I kid you not. And the only thing she said — I reached up, because she was short, and I reached up, pulled it down. She said, ‘Well, you didn’t have to make it look so easy.’ That was my interaction. I felt so good.
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Old 12-18-14, 12:56 PM   #260
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

^And in her native Italian, too. Someone better check her papers.
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Old 12-18-14, 12:59 PM   #261
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
“I tell this story – I mean, even as the first lady – during that wonderfully publicized trip I took to Target, not highly disguised, the only person who came up to me in the store was a woman who asked me to help her take something off a shelf. Because she didn’t see me as the first lady, she saw me as someone who could help her. Those kinds of things happen in life. So it isn’t anything new.”
So Mrs. Obama takes offense that someone else might assume she wants to help someone?
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Old 12-18-14, 05:02 PM   #262
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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So Mrs. Obama takes offense that someone else might assume she wants to help someone?
I think it's less about offense and more about noticing the general assumptions that black people are the help and Hispanics are the cleaning staff.
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Old 12-18-14, 05:07 PM   #263
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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Originally Posted by RoyalTea View Post
So Mrs. Obama takes offense that someone else might assume she wants to help someone?
When I first heard that she said that i was like.."huh? That's because you're famously tall". But then I thought about it and it made sense why she used that example and it's this right here as stated by Draven:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I think it's less about offense and more about noticing the general assumptions that black people are the help and Hispanics are the cleaning staff.
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Old 12-18-14, 06:19 PM   #264
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

For anybody so inclined, there was an article today at Volokh regarding the notion of a "discussion about race" and the practical perils of actually having such a discussion ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/v...-whom-to-fire/ ). Not copy/pasting the entire article here, as it's rather lengthy.

I did chuckle at the update, because it mirrors my own observations of how this "conversation" is supposed to go:
Quote:
UPDATE:
Quote:
Commenter MDJ23 writes:
I think you are taking the national conversation or water cooler suggestion too literally. The point is that those who have suffered racial discrimination should speak out, not that those who have not should speak out — the latter’s role should mostly be to listen. Some might call that a lecture; I’d call it an education.
Oh, that’s the “conversation” that people are contemplating — this helps explain things.
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Old 12-18-14, 07:54 PM   #265
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
When I first heard that she said that i was like.."huh? That's because you're famously tall". But then I thought about it and it made sense why she used that example and it's this right here as stated by Draven:
But it's sort of a poor example because you have her tell the same story on Letterman where she has a different opinion of the encounter. Which version of her story is the true one?
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Old 12-19-14, 03:47 PM   #266
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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Originally Posted by Neil M. View Post
But it's sort of a poor example because you have her tell the same story on Letterman where she has a different opinion of the encounter. Which version of her story is the true one?
Maybe she thought about it later and the context changed. Maybe she didn't want to bring up race on the Letterman Show. Maybe she is woman who believes she's above being asked to do menial tasks for commoners.

Who knows...
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Old 12-19-14, 04:29 PM   #267
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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So Mrs. Obama takes offense that someone else might assume she wants to help someone?
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Old 01-05-15, 07:43 PM   #268
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...riticized.html
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Old 01-05-15, 07:44 PM   #269
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Alabama keeping it real :

'Move Ni--er Now’: Vandals terrorize Alabama grandmother in New Year’s Eve attack

http://www.waff.com/clip/10997642/wo...-on-her-garage

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/m...rs-eve-attack/
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Old 01-06-15, 12:23 AM   #270
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draven View Post
I think it's less about offense and more about noticing the general assumptions that black people are the help and Hispanics are the cleaning staff.
Absolutely correct. She should contact Sharpton's National Action Network and demand reparations now (or at least let Al conduct his usual shakedown routine...although I think he's already gotten Target on the payroll along with most other American companies).

Michelle should consider herself lucky. I'd love to be asked to help someone; instead, I have to fend off fifteen offers to sign up for a Red Card. On the other hand, when I go with my friend Pedro, someone always runs up and hands him a mop & bucket. It gets plumb annoying after awhile.

Michelle, Sweetie, it's all about that bass. You could have just said, "Get it yourself, Whitey!" and then kicked the old bat's cane out from under her. That would have really shown her.

Or maybe you could have baked her a pie with that special ingredient.

Sounds like the lady was legally blind since she didn't notice the five large guys in black suits wearing sunglasses and earpieces pushing the shopping carts around for Ms. Obama.

Last edited by creekdipper; 01-06-15 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 01-07-15, 09:43 PM   #271
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Ms. Obama? Last I heard, the cultural norm in this country is to call a married woman Mrs.
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Old 01-07-15, 09:45 PM   #272
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

Also to bring up an older discussion, language standards are very much used as institutional tools of power. There were many studies done on African American dialects (most people probably know the term ebonics), and found that these language variants were as grammatically complex and complete as "standard" English. And yet when a school suggests teaching classes in ebonics, people act like it's the end of civilization.
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Old 01-07-15, 11:29 PM   #273
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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Ms. Obama? Last I heard, the cultural norm in this country is to call a married woman Mrs.
"Miss" refers to an unmarried woman.

"Mrs." (Pronounced "Miss-iss") refers to a married woman.

"Ms." (Pronounced "Miz") has no marital connotation and is correct in either case.

(Not that it matters, but I use Ms. for all women. Sometimes my pronunciation makes it sound as if I said Miss.)
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Old 01-08-15, 05:42 AM   #274
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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"Miss" refers to an unmarried woman.

"Mrs." (Pronounced "Miss-iss") refers to a married woman.

"Ms." (Pronounced "Miz") has no marital connotation and is correct in either case.

(Not that it matters, but I use Ms. for all women. Sometimes my pronunciation makes it sound as if I said Miss.)
I go with "Ms." when I need to address people in that way.

The whole Miss/Mrs. thing seems kind of archaic, and a throwback to a time when women had a lower social status, and were perceived to be of less worth if they were unmarried. "Ms." seems to be the safest, non-judgmental route, though when addressing a married couple "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" seems like it could be appropriate.
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Old 01-08-15, 08:17 AM   #275
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Re: We are a nation of cowards for not discussing race issues....

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I go with "Ms." when I need to address people in that way.

The whole Miss/Mrs. thing seems kind of archaic, and a throwback to a time when women had a lower social status, and were perceived to be of less worth if they were unmarried. "Ms." seems to be the safest, non-judgmental route, though when addressing a married couple "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" seems like it could be appropriate.
How about when the husband and wife have different last names, like my wife and me?
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