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Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

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Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Old 04-13-14, 10:27 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Some woman got pushed to the ground, and it's the biggest injustice in the world.
Old 04-13-14, 10:43 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

I first read this as Bunny Ranch and I started to get upset.

But then looked again at the headline and read the story. Seems like just a stubborn rancher who didn't pay fees and the courts ruled in government's favor... Maybe the government's response was a bit much but the tea party's response was just stupid and shows that they will take any opportunity to "stand up" to big govt.
Old 04-13-14, 11:22 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
I first read this as Bunny Ranch and I started to get upset.

But then looked again at the headline and read the story. Seems like just a stubborn rancher who didn't pay fees and the courts ruled in government's favor... Maybe the government's response was a bit much but the tea party's response was just stupid and shows that they will take any opportunity to "stand up" to big govt.
Same here. I was about to be outraged, then I realized it said Bundy and not Bunny...
Old 04-14-14, 06:39 AM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

They can drone these assholes for all I care.
Old 04-14-14, 07:58 AM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Did they send the agents to protect the people impounding the cattle? And why wouldn't they send agents when you knowingly are impounding property of known Yosemite Sam gun nuts in Nevada who openly flout Federal law?


Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
I'm not trying to sound like infowars here, but surely all of this fuss is not about some endangered turtles. It is costing a million to hire cowboys to get the cows off of land. The Feds want that land for some sort of purpose under the guise of the turtle.
Old 04-14-14, 01:15 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Did they send the agents to protect the people impounding the cattle? And why wouldn't they send agents when you knowingly are impounding property of known Yosemite Sam gun nuts in Nevada who openly flout Federal law?




I just felt it suspicious they were spending however millions of dollars to protect a turtle, and risking some form of showdown because of 'Big' government.
Old 04-14-14, 09:40 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
I just felt it suspicious they were spending however millions of dollars to protect a turtle, and risking some form of showdown because of 'Big' government.
Exactly major over reaction. They should not be able to bully people like that.
Old 04-14-14, 10:12 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
Exactly major over reaction. They should not be able to bully people like that.
Everyone involved in this story has been a bully. Nuke 'em all from orbit, I say.
Old 04-15-14, 08:18 AM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

It is Texas, so that seems appropriate. The rest of Texas will respect us more if we show that kind of force.

I've tried to read up more on this situation. Damn, it looks like a clusterfuck going back a long time.
Old 04-15-14, 09:58 AM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

This shows how much of a wimp Obama is. Bush I would've had snipers shoot the guy's wife while she was holding a baby.
Old 04-15-14, 10:17 AM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
It is Texas, so that seems appropriate. The rest of Texas will respect us more if we show that kind of force.
Nevada. Texans are not that crazy.
Old 04-15-14, 11:12 AM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by Psi View Post
Nevada. Texans are not that crazy.


It just doesn't have the same flair saying "Nevada."
Old 04-15-14, 12:13 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...ndoff-not-over
Following up on yesterday’s item, officials with the U.S. Bureau of Land Management backed off over the weekend at Cliven Bundy’s Nevada ranch, deescalating a potentially dangerous situation. The underlying issues, however, haven’t changed at all.

We’re still looking at a situation in which in a rancher has been illegally grazing, ignoring federal laws, blowing off federal court rulings he disagrees with, and refusing to pay fines. Federal officials saw well-armed protestors and decided to scale back rather than risk bloodshed, but it wasn’t long before everyone involved asked the same question: now what?

Nevada’s senior senator, who also happens to be the Senate Majority Leader, weighed in late yesterday.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid weighed in on the tensions in his state between rancher Cliven Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management, saying, “It’s not over.”

“Well, it’s not over,” Reid told NBC’s Nevada affiliate KRNV on Monday. “We can’t have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it’s not over.”

And that makes sense. Even among those who may be sympathetic to Bundy’s situation – members of his family have been cattle ranchers in that area for generations – most fair-minded folks would probably concede that Americans can’t ignore laws they don’t like and prevent laws from being enforced through the threat of possible violence.

By this reasoning, of course “it’s not over.” As we discussed yesterday, there’s an obvious problem with establishing a precedent that says Americans can disregard court orders.

Meanwhile, Bundy is weighing in on where things stand, too.

Indeed, the rancher showed up last night on Fox News’ “Hannity.”

“I don’t have a response for Harry Reid, but I have a response for every county sheriff across the United States,” Bundy said on Monday. “Disarm the federal bureaucrats.”

Just to clarify, Bundy is apparently under the impression that county law-enforcement officials should confront federal law-enforcement officials and attempt to take their firearms.

That’s probably not a good idea.

We are, by the way, still waiting for word from national Republicans, who haven’t said much about the controversy. In theory, this shouldn’t be a tough call – national GOP policymakers routinely say it’s “tyranny” if President Obama issues an executive order or moves a health care deadline without congressional approval, so one would like to think they’d be uncomfortable, at a minimum, with someone deliberately ignoring federal law and expecting no consequences.

But we’ll see.

Update: Our pals at “All in with Chris Hayes” took a deep dive into the Bundy story last night.
obvious MSNBC spin, but that's the update. Seems like the way to go is to simply make the guy pay all the back lease payments, and continue with life. I'd be okay with forgetting about the fees and penalties because there were reasonable reasons he quit. Though he did still use the land, so pay it back, and even with COLA adjustments.
Old 04-15-14, 01:19 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
Seems like the way to go is to simply make the guy pay all the back lease payments, and continue with life.
How? The government has already taken him to court, won, and spent 15+ years trying to enforce the judgment. This standoff was the result of the latest (albeit heavy-handed) attempt to make the guy pay.

I'd be okay with forgetting about the fees and penalties because there were reasonable reasons he quit.
As near as I can tell, his reasons are "My grampappy used to graze his cattle here a hundred years ago, so my family should get to graze here forever! Also, states rights!!!" Neither reason seems good to me.
Old 04-15-14, 09:00 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

His version of the story is that if he pays the fees he is accepting a contract which basically squeezes him off the land over a Tortoise....
I say Viva Bundy.... "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend"
Old 04-15-14, 09:15 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Why is his claim to the land more legitimate than that of the tortoise? I promise you that neither cows nor humans will go extinct if this dickhead can't graze his cattle on that land.
Old 04-15-14, 09:23 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
His version of the story is that if he pays the fees he is accepting a contract which basically squeezes him off the land over a Tortoise....
So he's getting squeezed off of land that wasn't his to begin with? Oh, what a travesty.
Old 04-15-14, 09:23 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Why is his claim to the land more legitimate than that of the tortoise? I promise you that neither cows nor humans will go extinct if this dickhead can't graze his cattle on that land.
Why couldnt the Feds who should have no jurisdiction leave well the fuck alone. Why does he come out the bad guy. Its Nevada state land not Federal land in the first place.
Old 04-15-14, 09:24 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
So he's getting squeezed off of land that wasn't his to begin with? Oh, what a travesty.
No he is being squeezed off land his family has been farming long before the fucked up BLM came along.
Old 04-15-14, 09:34 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
Why couldnt the Feds who should have no jurisdiction leave well the fuck alone. Why does he come out the bad guy. Its Nevada state land not Federal land in the first place.
Nope. It's been Federal owned land since the US won the Mexican War in 1848. They do have jurisdiction there.
Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
No he is being squeezed off land his family has been farming long before the fucked up BLM came along.
He had no problems paying the grazing fees until 1993. He didn't like the changes made to the rules in 1993 so he stopped paying and made up some crap about inherited grazing rights, which don't exist. The courts agreed.
Old 04-15-14, 09:39 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
How? The government has already taken him to court, won, and spent 15+ years trying to enforce the judgment. This standoff was the result of the latest (albeit heavy-handed) attempt to make the guy pay.



As near as I can tell, his reasons are "My grampappy used to graze his cattle here a hundred years ago, so my family should get to graze here forever! Also, states rights!!!" Neither reason seems good to me.
Hey, I only know what I read here...and I don't read it all.
Old 04-15-14, 09:41 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
Nope. It's been Federal owned land since the US won the Mexican War in 1848. They do have jurisdiction there.

He had no problems paying the grazing fees until 1993. He didn't like the changes made to the rules in 1993 so he stopped paying and made up some crap about inherited grazing rights, which don't exist. The courts agreed.
And by agreeing to the fees in 1993 he was signing a contract that basically would end the opportunity for his cattle to graze. The Govt. is the bad guy in this case.
Old 04-15-14, 09:52 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
No he is being squeezed off land his family has been farming long before the fucked up BLM came along.
Yes, land that belongs the the United States Government -- that is to say, all of us equally. If he wants to use the land he should be free to, but if that use precludes the rest of us from using it, then he needs to compensate us for it.
Old 04-15-14, 09:53 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

“We can’t have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it"

Pot Kettle.
Old 04-15-14, 10:01 PM
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Re: Anyone Following this Bundy Ranch situation?

Originally Posted by BKenn01 View Post
And by agreeing to the fees in 1993 he was signing a contract that basically would end the opportunity for his cattle to graze. The Govt. is the bad guy in this case.
I won't argue for or against the reasoning behind the 1993 changes. I've heard everything from tortoises to preventing over-grazing to wildfire recovery. My point is that he doesn't have a right to be there like he and his supporters claim. There is no states rights or grazing rights argument.

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