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Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Old 01-05-14, 06:18 PM
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Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Both Fallujah and Ramadi have fallen to al queda affiliated insurgents. (ISIL)

Government backed counter offensive began yesterday, with heavy bombing today.

No US troops will be getting involved, according to our greates SoS.

Money continues to come in from Saudi Arabia. What is it they say about nature and a vacuum?


Any chance for the Shiite government of Iraq?
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Old 01-05-14, 06:37 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

This is what you get when you start a war based on lies.
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Old 01-05-14, 07:06 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

How long until conservatives blame Obama for pulling out troops as opposed to blaming Bush for getting us in there in the first place?
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Old 01-05-14, 07:09 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
How long until conservatives blame Obama for pulling out troops as opposed to blaming Bush for getting us in there in the first place?

Good to know there can't be "blame" assigned to both administrations.
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Old 01-05-14, 07:12 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Okay, let's blame both. I'm fine with that.
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Old 01-05-14, 07:29 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
This is what you get when you start a war based on lies.
Then you were opposed to World War I. Our entry into that war was based on lies.
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Old 01-05-14, 07:31 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Joke's on you...Jason's posts from 1914 were very much anti-war.
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Old 01-05-14, 08:22 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Wow, that was certainly a great use of $4 trillion.
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Old 01-05-14, 08:42 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Then you were opposed to World War I. Our entry into that war was based on lies.
Always on the cutting edge of current events, classicman.
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Old 01-05-14, 08:55 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Then you were opposed to World War I. Our entry into that war was based on lies.
What would have been the negative consequences of the US staying out of World War I?
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Old 01-05-14, 09:01 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
What would have been the negative consequences of the US staying out of World War I?
Sauerkraut would probably be a more popular food.
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Old 01-05-14, 09:10 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Then you were opposed to World War I. Our entry into that war was based on lies.
You got me. I'm a total hypocrite for not opposing a war that was over decades before I was born.
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Old 01-05-14, 09:28 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
How long until conservatives blame Obama for pulling out troops as opposed to blaming Bush for getting us in there in the first place?
Michael Moore, the French, and the Dixie Chicks were right.
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Old 01-05-14, 09:30 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
Then you were opposed to World War I. Our entry into that war was based on lies.
Considering that WWI directly led to the Bolshevik Revolution, the fall of the Ottoman Empire (and the current makeup of the Middle East), the rise of Third Reich, the Holocaust, and the Cold War, there's probably a lesson in there somewhere...
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Old 01-05-14, 09:51 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by Jason View Post
This is what you get when you start a war based on lies.
From what I've observed, every single US skirmish to all out war has been a lie.

So, lying isn't the problem.

The problem is when to know to pull the plug.

Like that brain-dead kid (corpse with a tube in it) whose parents just don't know when to let go.
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Old 01-05-14, 11:44 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Some critics say that these are the same people fighting the Syrian government now, yet the West wrongly continues to support them - to appease Saudi Arabia? A country that probably funds 90% of the world's terrorists.

But the good news is that I think the Iraqi government said it'll take a week to re-claim control of the city.
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Old 01-06-14, 09:35 AM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet View Post
Wow, that was certainly a great use of $4 trillion.
Obscene amounts of money wasted, the loss of thousands of American troops and countless innocent Iraqi civilian lives, a Shariah-compliant constitution enshrined for a country that will NEVER be any kind of loyal US ally in the region--and oh yeah, about half of Iraq's 1.5 million Christians have been ethnically cleansed (driven out, fled or killed) since 2003.

As someone who despises Obama, I attribute pretty much 0% blame to him for this immoral debacle.
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Old 01-06-14, 09:56 AM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
What would have been the negative consequences of the US staying out of World War I?
None

One could argue that our entry into WWI facilitated the rise of Adolph Hitler.

That's not the only reason I have for believing Woodrow Wilson was a terrible president
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Old 01-06-14, 09:59 AM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Considering that WWI directly led to the Bolshevik Revolution, the fall of the Ottoman Empire (and the current makeup of the Middle East), the rise of Third Reich, the Holocaust, and the Cold War, there's probably a lesson in there somewhere...
But you'd have to show that having the Germans win would have led to a world in a better state. (Which doesn't seem very probable). That was the other choice, not that we just avoided war by singing kumbaya.

I concede that we (not necessarily the Iraqis) would have been better off with Saddam Hussein continuing to rule Iraq with an iron fist. We might have been better off propping him up as a puppet than hanging him. We are wasting our time trying to make democracies of the Middle East; we should settle for keeping them contained.
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Old 01-06-14, 10:01 AM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by classicman2 View Post
None

One could argue that our entry into WWI facilitated the rise of Adolph Hitler.

That's not the only reason I have for believing Woodrow Wilson was a terrible president
I think it might be better argued that we erred in allowing the other Europeans to be a bit vindictive in terms after Germany surrendered.

I really can't imagine a good outcome predicated on a German victory in WW1.
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Old 01-06-14, 10:08 AM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Considering that WWI directly led to the Bolshevik Revolution, the fall of the Ottoman Empire (and the current makeup of the Middle East), the rise of Third Reich, the Holocaust, and the Cold War, there's probably a lesson in there somewhere...
Kill everyone before you end the war. Word!
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Old 01-06-14, 11:34 AM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by OldDude View Post
I think it might be better argued that we erred in allowing the other Europeans to be a bit vindictive in terms after Germany surrendered.

I really can't imagine a good outcome predicated on a German victory in WW1.
OIne might even argue that, had we gotten involved in WWI sooner, we could have brought it to a swifter conclusion, potentially forestalling some of the harsher terms of Versailles and the Russian Revolution.

I don't know enough aboiut America's military capabilities in 1914 to know if we really could have made a difference, but as long as we're posing counter-factuals, that seems like the one more likely to lead to a better world.
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Old 01-06-14, 12:06 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Wasn't John Maynard Keynes one of those (many) to believe that the excessive war reparations Germany had to pay after WWI was the primary reason that led to the rise of the Nazi Party & Adolph Hitler?
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Old 01-06-14, 12:13 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
From what I've observed, every single US skirmish to all out war has been a lie.
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Old 01-06-14, 12:16 PM
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Re: Fall of Fallujah: 2014

The Causes of WWI




Baldrick: The thing is: The way I see it, these days there's a war on, right? and, ages ago, there wasn't a war on, right? So, there must have been a moment when there not being a war on went away, right? and there being a war on came along. So, what I want to know is: How did we get from the one case of affairs to the other case of affairs?



Edmund: Do you mean "Why did the war start?"


Baldrick: Yeah.


George: The war started because of the vile Hun and his villainous empire-building.


Edmund: George, the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganyika. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front.


George: Oh, no, sir, absolutely not. [aside, to Baldick] Mad as a bicycle!


Baldrick: I heard that it started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.


Edmund: I think you mean it started when the Archduke of Austro-Hungary got shot.


Baldrick: Nah, there was definitely an ostrich involved, sir.


Edmund: Well, possibly. But the real reason for the whole thing was that it was too much effort not to have a war.


George: By Golly, this is interesting; I always loved history...


Edmund: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war in Europe, two superblocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side, and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent. That way there could never be a war.


Baldrick: But this is a sort of a war, isn't it, sir?


Edmund: Yes, that's right. You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan.


George: What was that, sir?


Edmund: It was bollocks.


Baldrick: So the poor old ostrich died for nothing.
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